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Ineos Grenadier - rejected

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Out of the couple of thousand members on here. What problems? Not wishing to be rude Norb, but if I google “Problems with Toyota, Honda, Lexus, etc,” I can find plenty of posts, and yet, these are some of the most reliable vehicles in the world!
@Cheshire cat agree, all cars have their issues. For IG there is no reputation though that you’re going to be OK. Full price and the owner is taking the risk.

I believe there is a management issue. Hoping they make some changes soon so people on the forum can share how well they were treated.

Lynn Calder, if you watching the feedback on this forum, consider putting some of your owners in as your first level of defense……”adventure concierge” or “support guide”. A few on this board would make great part time reps. A lesson I used recently
That yielded great results.
 

Jean Mercier

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Of course he is serious. We know of some peoples problems, but not all owners have problems with their vehicles that warrant a rejection.

It would be beneficial to know what the ratio of problem cars are with those that are deemed to be satisfactory.
Well, some people can accept and stand problems, my wife wouldn't, I am sure she would have been very unsatisfied and rejected the vehicle, she doesn't understand me (neither in other situations ;) )

I would have thought they all have the same software, sensors, door locks and handles, water/ door seals, transfer case , coolant hoses etc so all would have or the potential to have the exact same issues
Even in the same production batch there are variances, and don't forget the different way of driving, using, charging, ... the car, and environment ... therefore not all problems will appear on every vehicle, and certainly not all at once!

Plus it’s natural that the most vocal posts will be about the (probably relatively very small percentage) of issues. People share glitches and look for help. Granted, some people (@Jean Mercier especially!) seem to have been very unlucky but that’s pretty rare. And even he still seems to love it overall, somehow. Patience of a saint.

I personally had a couple of small issues (absolutely nothing showstopping, but looking at my posts you’d probably not be alone in having the odd wobble) but overall absolutely love the Grenadier. Now things are settled down I don’t post every day of happy driving. You can’t really use an owners forum as a guide to the likelihood of having issues. 😀
I love my Grenadier, I don't know if I had more problems than others but:
  • I post almost all my problems, hoping to reach Ineos and get some help
  • The help from my dealer is very poor
  • I search myself the causes (and sometimes find them) but it is frustrating: my vehicle is under warranty
  • I am straight, non diplomatic, I don't care to say this!
 

FieldMonster

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I've been through this in other forums, rms, head bolts, all found by forum members first. So whatever you say fanbois.
What an odd thing to say. Other forums? Are you here because they threw you out for being a potty mouth?

I think my post was pretty balanced and fair. Accusing me specifically of sharing a “crock of sh*t” and accusing people vaguely of being “fanbois” is a bit unhelpful really. Buy the Grenadier or don’t, but please would you mind showing a bit more consideration and thoughtfulness in this forum?
 

FieldMonster

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Oh I agree.

Good. The guidelines describe the ambition for this to be a friendly, welcoming, encouraging, generous, inclusive community. I’ve personally enjoyed that and how it’s quite different to other places.

It also says we should “Use respect and courtesy when you have a different opinion than other members.“ I’ll continue to do that and I hope you will too.
 

Jeremy996

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I've been through this in other forums, rms, head bolts, all found by forum members first. So whatever you say fanbois.
I think you need to wind your neck in. Calling people fanbois is not much of an argument. This is a marque specific forum, so we are going to have more than the usual quota of disciples and heretics, complicated by confirmation bias and old Land Rover owner's tolerance of "character".

If you want "white goods" with no faults, you need to cancel your Grenadier. At the very least, it drives differently from the usual SUV and it does not have all of the creature comforts of the luxury SUVs most modern drivers seem to want. It is not at it's best on a paved road and as a new entrant to the market, the service network is not fully conversant with the needs of owners.

I have done just over 15,000 miles now; I have issues with the lack of service data and access to spare parts but the faults on delivery have been fixed by my local dealer, (water in the footwells, water between the door seals, water sloshing around in the chassis rail, HVAC not working correctly, flakey software, temporary TPMS error), but the dealer is under pressure as Ineos Automotive is not sufficiently reactive, experience is limited and workshop capacity is scarce. I have had to cut my dealer some slack in terms of time and ignoring issues until we all had the resources to sort them.

No vehicle manufacturer has an unblemished record, most of them depend on the same small pool of suppliers, so if a supplier screws up, many marques are affected, (https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle-safety/takata-recall-spotlight), so picking a Honda, Lexus or KIA is not a guarantee of a blemish free existence either.

Pre-release testing is not an exact science historically, so the public finding weaknesses that did not crop up in testing is not uncommon. The first issue is that nothing is foolproof, fools are ingenious and find new and interesting ways to break stuff. BMW has an issue in the UK with 4 cylinder Police cars bursting into flames after long periods of idling followed by high speed work. As a consequence, they have withdrawn from the Police market.

So far there have been patterns of failure with the Grenadier that suggest that the basic build is OK, with some detail issues and some systemic problems that Ineos Automotive picked up at an early stage. Mechanically, the only horror show appears to be early transfer boxes, most of which were changed at an early stage, (usually at the factory). The early software load was "immature" and later vehicles seem to be much better. The filling and purging of air from the cooling systems seems to have an issue, giving problems with HVAC. The stuck-on door seals had a nasty habit of falling off, cured by cleaning the door frames before applying the glue. The sun roof drains often were routed wrongly, putting water into the footwells. IA does seem to be OK at correcting issues once they are identified.

Now we seem to have well over 1000 actual owners on the forum, as on 04/01/2024, @Stu_Barnes said we had 1036 recorded owners. Now I reckon we have about 5 people wanting to/actually rejected vehicles, so let's compare it to the New Defender, which has been a considerable sales success. I suggested to a senior JLR employee that out of 10 New Defender customers, 5 were ecstatic, 4 were mostly happy, with minor issues, usually the infotainment and 1 had major issues and they conceded that was about right. Now, JLR feel that they have a warranty problem, so 1 in 10 is unacceptable, but our 5 in 1000 starts to look miraculous!

Now I accept my numbers are hardly scientific, the new Defender has a 3 year warranty and has been in the market a few years now, the Grenadier is barely out of the box, a number of owners will have done less than 1000 miles and the Grenadier has a 5 year warranty in the UK.
 
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Norb-TX

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lol, I see the ones most offended are actual owners already. My apologies, it's like calling your new born baby ugly, I get it. All good.
 

Tazzieman

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Let’s be honest here - all newborn babies are ugly.
However , I have been informed a spider is about the furthest creature removed from the "beauty" of the newborn.
Many mothers would agree,
Spiders cause a lot of misplaced emotion ;)
 

Stu_Barnes

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I think you need to wind your neck in. Calling people fanbois is not much of an argument. This is a marque specific forum, so we are going to have more than the usual quota of disciples and heretics, complicated by confirmation bias and old Land Rover owner's tolerance of "character".

If you want "white goods" with no faults, you need to cancel your Grenadier. At the very least, it drives differently from the usual SUV and it does not have all of the creature comforts of the luxury SUVs most modern drivers seem to want. It is not at it's best on a paved road and as a new entrant to the market, the service network is not fully conversant with the needs of owners.

I have done just over 15,000 miles now; I have issues with the lack of service data and access to spare parts but the faults on delivery have been fixed by my local dealer, (water in the footwells, water between the door seals, water sloshing around in the chassis rail, HVAC not working correctly, flakey software, temporary TPMS error), but the dealer is under pressure as Ineos Automotive is not sufficiently reactive, experience is limited and workshop capacity is scarce. I have had to cut my dealer some slack in terms of time and ignoring issues until we all had the resources to sort them.

No vehicle manufacturer has an unblemished record, most of them depend on the same small pool of suppliers, so if a supplier screws up, many marques are affected, (https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle-safety/takata-recall-spotlight), so picking a Honda, Lexus or KIA is not a guarantee of a blemish free existence either.

Pre-release testing is not an exact science historically, so the public finding weaknesses that did not crop up in testing is not uncommon. The first issue is that nothing is foolproof, fools are ingenious and find new and interesting ways to break stuff. BMW has an issue in the UK with 4 cylinder Police cars bursting into flames after long periods of idling followed by high speed work. As a consequence, they have withdrawn from the Police market.

So far there have been patterns of failure with the Grenadier that suggest that the basic build is OK, with some detail issues and some systemic problems that Ineos Automotive picked up at an early stage. Mechanically, the only horror show appears to be early transfer boxes, most of which were changed at an early stage, (usually at the factory). The early software load was "immature" and later vehicles seem to be much better. The filling and purging of air from the cooling systems seems to have an issue, giving problems with HVAC. The stuck-on door seals had a nasty habit of falling off, cured by cleaning the door frames before applying the glue. The sun roof drains often were routed wrongly, putting water into the footwells. IA does seem to be OK at correcting issues once they are identified.

Now we seem to have well over 1000 actual owners on the forum, as on 04/01/2024, @Stu_Barnes said we had 1036 recorded owners. Now I reckon we have about 5 people wanting to/actually rejected vehicles, so let's compare it to the New Defender, which has been a considerable sales success. I suggested to a senior JLR employee that out of 10 New Defender customers, 5 were ecstatic, 4 were mostly happy, with minor issues, usually the infotainment and 1 had major issues and they conceded that was about right. Now, JLR feel that they have a warranty problem, so 1 in 10 is unacceptable, but our 5 in 1000 starts to look miraculous!

Now I accept my numbers are hardly scientific, the new Defender has a 3 year warranty and has been in the market a few years now, the Grenadier is barely out of the box, a number of owners will have done less than 1000 miles and the Grenadier has a 5 year warranty in the UK.
1154 owners now, and a lot haven't bothered to update their status ;)
 
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Jeremy996

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lol, I see the ones most offended are actual owners already. My apologies, it's like calling your new born baby ugly, I get it. All good.
You're surprised? Confirmation bias is real.

The big question is whether the Grenadier is better or worse than other similar vehicles in terms of quality and reliability after delivery. I don't have a reliable handle on the answer, as my sample of one, (an early build, early release example), had some issues but no damning ones. I've helped a few people get satisfaction for faulty vehicles, (mostly JLR and Volkswagen), and in the past I have worked for a vehicle warranty company, so I think I have a grasp of the customer experience with other manufacturers.

I was looking for this thread earlier, https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/poll-how-is-your-new-grenadier-really.12412026/, it's a self-selecting poll, so there will be positive and negative bias of reporting, but suggests that the user experience is not as bad as could be expected.
 
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