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Americas Price shock (US)

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Hey fellow yanks,

Are any of you worried about price shock? And are any of you willing to make concessions on your build to fit it into your budget?

I know my max I'm willing to pay is $75k for my Grenadier but I am willing to cut some options off my dream build if absolutely necessary.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on those questions and an estimation on pricing if you have them. (or insider knowledge if applicable).

Thanks guys,
Christian
 

Krabby

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Hi Christian - I think we're all in the same boat here. A few weeks back I spec'd the truck the way I truly want it in both UK and Aus prices and then used XE.com to convert into USD. There's lots of room for error, but when I do that it fits in my budget (barely). There are certainly things I will forgo need be to drop the price if I need to once US figures are announced.

If I am honest though, my true worry is d-bag dealers and their "market adjustment fees." I really do want a Grenadier - I have since the project got underway - but I will not pay over list. It's not right how dealers get away with it and what's worse, the manufacturers are helpless because of our own state laws. I'm not sure about the direct sales logistics working out (someone posted a map on a different thread) so maybe some states can offer direct sales through Ineos, but I know for a fact that my state, NJ, is not one of them. I have expressed to others that I am willing to travel to not get ripped off! I bought a Ford Raptor a few years back down in Florida because the dealer four miles from my house wanted $10k over when the order banks first opened. I said thanks but no thanks but a few months later, they had the balls to call to see if I was still interested and that the adjustment was up to $15k. Screw that. Greedy bastards.
 
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I have a feeling that a lot of people who could afford 60k at 2% interest may not be able to afford 70k+ at 5%+.
Yeah, I think the hope for most was a truck around 50-60, but now we are talking mid 70s for a decent build. Going purely by conversions on the AU/GB configurator we are looking at more than that.
 
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I recall a video by the head of IG North America a few weeks ago stating we will have guidance in December on how we will be able to order in January 2023. The comment was also made that we will have an update on pricing in January 2023 in order to place orders. I do hope I remember correctly.

The video included a statement that we will have more regular updates from IG NA, but at this point have to wonder if anything useful is forthcoming before Christmas 2022. I appreciate the struggles with supply chains etc, but certainly simple update videos, even if to announce changes in previously made time commitments, will be possible and help us all in the US and Canada.

At this point, in the void of regular communications, I am really wondering if the pricing will push it out of reach of many of the reservation holders and also will result in such a long delay in actually delivering the vehicles given capacity/supply chain/shipping constraints that placing an order will push into 2024 deliveries.

At a minimum, I would expect IG to communicate with us more frequently in the US and Canada, without asking them to predict the future pricing. The key reason I frequent this forum is to see who has what updates on timing and product details.

Is this too much to ask for from IG NA? Anything at this point is better than nothing.
 
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I recall a video by the head of IG North America a few weeks ago stating we will have guidance in December on how we will be able to order in January 2023. The comment was also made that we will have an update on pricing in January 2023 in order to place orders. I do hope I remember correctly.

The video included a statement that we will have more regular updates from IG NA, but at this point have to wonder if anything useful is forthcoming before Christmas 2022. I appreciate the struggles with supply chains etc, but certainly simple update videos, even if to announce changes in previously made time commitments, will be possible and help us all in the US and Canada.

At this point, in the void of regular communications, I am really wondering if the pricing will push it out of reach of many of the reservation holders and also will result in such a long delay in actually delivering the vehicles given capacity/supply chain/shipping constraints that placing an order will push into 2024 deliveries.

At a minimum, I would expect IG to communicate with us more frequently in the US and Canada, without asking them to predict the future pricing. The key reason I frequent this forum is to see who has what updates on timing and product details.

Is this too much to ask for from IG NA? Anything at this point is better than nothing.
I wouldn't mind waiting if we received regular updates in the meantime. Communication has not been a strong suit for Ineos so far.
 

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We had the opposite here in Australia where you can only buy direct from Ineos.
I had mine all configured and it came to AUD$133,000 (USD$91,282) which was a bit higher than I hoped but still ok.
Ineos fought with the tax department and had Luxury Car Tax removed taking my price down to AUD$119,000 (USD$81,600)
I added a couple more items and took it up to AUD$121,000 (USD$83,000) and placed my order that day
 
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Canuck here. Im thinking around 80k usd would be my line. I dont be surprised if delivery is 2024.

I'd really rather put the $s into a replacement truck and camper and would prob get more use out of that then a Gren so IG better hurry up already ! 😎

It is a different market than the others what with NA made alternatives so we'll just have to hope we get favourable pricing.
 

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Call me crazy, I'd rather not disclose my buying limits online before the pricing is announced. Just like I wouldn't tell a dealership.
Same with applying for a job and they ask you what salary you want.
I know a guy who said he was looking for $160K and the guy he was replacing was on $230K and the company was prepared to pay more than that
Always play your cards close to your chest (or vest in USA)
 
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Call me crazy, I'd rather not disclose my buying limits online before the pricing is announced. Just like I wouldn't tell a dealership.
Haha, not crazy. Know what you mean. Prob not gonna make a difference for me as - for me - we're already in the, "money to burn" zone. If I have it, I have it. If I don't, I dont.
It's not looking for me like a"value purchase". Not something I'd pay $1,500 a month on. Love to have one, but ...

But, yeah, I don't want to blow it up for everyone else.

As for guesstimating, current UK and Aus configurator pricing are both ~68k USD for base Belfast (before VAT/GST). Add 10% for an increase and we're at 75K. Before extra goodies

In think that's going to knock out a lot of folks who've been following along. As renli3d posted, add financing and yowsa !

Would I drop options, yes. Prob build a la carte if possible.

I think the Gren is going to be a winner in the first placements and they're going to jack the price for the USA. Canada is going to have to be lower, if they want to sell them here.
 

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Haha, not crazy. Know what you mean. Prob not gonna make a difference for me as - for me - we're already in the, "money to burn" zone. If I have it, I have it. If I don't, I dont.
It's not looking for me like a"value purchase". Not something I'd pay $1,500 a month on. Love to have one, but ...

But, yeah, I don't want to blow it up for everyone else.

As for guesstimating, current UK and Aus configurator pricing are both ~68k USD for base Belfast (before VAT/GST). Add 10% for an increase and we're at 75K. Before extra goodies

In think that's going to knock out a lot of folks who've been following along. As renli3d posted, add financing and yowsa !

Would I drop options, yes. Prob build a la carte if possible.

I think the Gren is going to be a winner in the first placements and they're going to jack the price for the USA. Canada is going to have to be lower, if they want to sell them here.
I was wondering what vehicles you would compare it against there?
The market in NA is so different to the rest of the world
 
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I was wondering what vehicles you would compare it against there?
The market in NA is so different to the rest of the world
Bronco I guess. I don't get into the comparison debates because it always comes to an Apple to oranges juncture. To me they're wheels. I don't think that's helpful to others.

And it's money and what else I could do with it. Again, not helpful.

Sorry...
 

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Bronco I guess. I don't get into the comparison debates because it always comes to an Apple to oranges juncture. To me they're wheels. I don't think that's helpful to others.

And it's money and what else I could do with it. Again, not helpful.

Sorry...
No problem.
We all have different needs, priorities and personal choices.
I don't know much about vehicles available in Canada except for a couple of car review channels from there
The Bronco looks good.
I was told by someone this morning that during a conversation they had, the other person said that the IG had gone up by $10K, so they had decided to order a Great Wall Ute instead.
His response was that they were never serious about the IG if that was the case.
As below it starts at a third of the price.



1671082584844.png
 
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No problem.
We all have different needs, priorities and personal choices.
I don't know much about vehicles available in Canada except for a couple of car review channels from there
The Bronco looks good.
I was told by someone this morning that during a conversation they had, the other person said that the IG had gone up by $10K, so they had decided to order a Great Wall Ute instead.
His response was that they were never serious about the IG if that was the case.
As below it starts at a third of the price.



View attachment 7797881
I don't mean to be flip. Not like that guy who said they were never serious !

we get mostly what the US has. Quick lookup in CAD round figures
Subaru Outback loaded 45K
4Runner TRD <70K
Toyota Tacoma. say 45K
F350 Crewcab UTE 70K
D90 V8 P525 (whatever that is) start 130K
Bronco mid range 55K
Jeep Rubicon 4door 60K

Average home price Metro Vancouver Dec '22 1,131M. Detached 1.86M both down from the peak in April 22
 
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Just waiting to see at this point. I have deposits on other vehicles that fit my needs in the event ineos fouls up the roll out here. I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about it.
 
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I'd be interested to know how many of them Ineos is planning to sell in the USA annually to figure this out. Their pricing will certainly play a roll in that. It certainly seems now that the IG will initially fall in the 70-80k range, and if so, I would be out. Was hoping for a mildly spec'd version being close to 60k. Above that, for me anyway, lots of other pretty loaded options in a similar enough category for me to take flyer on a company that may or may not be around long enough to help alleviate jitters about a BMW powertrain and electronics holding up long term.
 
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I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about it.
I'm trending that way. If it does indeed come to USA/Can - and I'm not as confident as I was - I think they'll need to cultivate newer potential buyers what with the delays and rising costs.

How pricing plays into that remains to be seen. But it will be a challenge for IG and some enthusiasts.
 
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It will really depend on the US Import tax and the emissions taxes. Ineos might get a break since they are boutique and are not expecting many buyers. The truck will prolly be considers a light passenger vehicle and will need to meet the emissions. Fortunately, BMW has already met the emissions. I hope, still cannot find the data on the US DOT site.
 
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I'd be interested to know how many of them Ineos is planning to sell in the USA annually to figure this out. Their pricing will certainly play a roll in that. It certainly seems now that the IG will initially fall in the 70-80k range, and if so, I would be out. Was hoping for a mildly spec'd version being close to 60k. Above that, for me anyway, lots of other pretty loaded options in a similar enough category for me to take flyer on a company that may or may not be around long enough to help alleviate jitters about a BMW powertrain and electronics holding up long term.
I'm trending that way. If it does indeed come to USA/Can - and I'm not as confident as I was - I think they'll need to cultivate newer potential buyers what with the delays and rising costs.

How pricing plays into that remains to be seen. But it will be a challenge for IG and some enthusiasts.
I’m still really keen on the Grenadier; it is maybe 75% of what I would want in my “perfect overlander” - and that is higher than anything currently on the market. But I’m with you both - there is risk with the purchase, especially in the American market, and rumors of rising prices and extended delays are dampening my enthusiasm.

Apart from the transfer case, which is made by Tremec in Mexico, none of the parts are sourced from North America. This creates an added concern around part-availability and access to service. NOTE – if the Grenadier becomes really successful, my guess is that BMW dealers will take over sales and service, and that would alleviate concerns over access to parts and service. However, if the Grenadier remains a low-volume niche vehicle, long-term ownership might be a bit of a nuisance, and if Ineos Automotive goes under, well, that’s a whole other problem.

While some parts are quite common here (e.g. the BMW engine and the ZF transmission) many other parts are harder to come by. In particular, I’m a little concerned about the Carraro axles; they are supposed to be an excellent product, but we know little about the availability of gears or aftermarket lockers for these axles. In contrast, Dana-type axles (whether made by Dana, Dynatrac, Terraflex, or whoever) are super common, gears are widely available, as are lockers, including the manual (cable-actuated) lockers from Ox (which - in my opinion - are the lockers that best embrace the ethos of the Grenadier). If the Grenadier came with Dana axles, I would order one without factory lockers, and I’d put in a set of Ox-Lockers: (1) no electronic actuator as with the Eaton lockers in the IG, (2) they do not unlock briefly when shifting between forward and reverse as with the Eaton lockers, (3) no need for air lines and O-rings as with ARB Air-Lockers, and (4) they are super strong, and engage when you pull a manual lever.

My concerns around parts and service seem to go up as the likely price for the vehicle goes up. Part of that is irrational, and based on a vague notion of risk, and part is based on the viability of the Grenadier in the North American market. I worry that as price goes up, the Grenadier will price itself out of the market like the Landcruiser 200 did. The Landcruiser’s main competitive advantage was its durability and reliability; many other vehicles were faster and handled better on-road (Range Rover, BMW, Audi, etc.), many other vehicles were cheaper, but still provided all-wheel drive (Subaru, etc.), and the Jeep Wrangler outperformed the Landcruiser in technical off-roading, and captures that joy that comes with feeling like your vehicle has personality – even if it breaks down on occasion.

Durability and reliability are also the Grenadier’s main selling points. Ineos will need people who are willing to pay for something they can’t discern in a test-drive (durability & reliability), whereas power and handling are immediately obvious (and a similarly priced SUV will outperform a Grenadier on the tarmac – by a wide margin). Of course, if you are in the market for a Grenadier, you shouldn’t be cross-shopping with SUVs, but once the price gets over $80,000 a lot of folk are going to look at some of the other vehicles in that price range, and realize that 85K gets you a really sweet ride. Over the last 20 years, most Americans faced with this choice opted for the expensive sporty-SUV and not the expensive bullet-proof Landcruiser.

On the other hand, the Grenadier has some things going for it that the Landcruiser did not. The solid front axle will be a key selling point to real overlanders, and the Grenadier is also a lot “cooler” than the Landcruiser. It has a retro look that is really popular today, and the styling (both inside and out) appeals to every adult who played with a Tonka truck as a kid (you know what I mean). Will this be enough to support sales? Sometimes I think “yes” sometimes I think “no”. I guess we will see, but I hope for the Grenadier’s success.
 
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