GVM upgrade to 4.25t possible?

[TD5-90]

Came across an obviously planned change in EU for driving license type B today, which is restricted to 3,5t unil now. Apparently, there shall be a change that allows license type B holders to drive vehicles up to 4,25t from some point in 2023.

So I had this thought: Since we all know that the Grenadier has, finally, become a heavy, or perhaps more correctly, very strong and sturdy vehicle, I was wondering if it would be possible to spec up the GVM of the Gren with no or marginal technical adjustments. Maybe Ineos have made provision for such an upgrade during development.

If this was possible, all of the discussions on payload would immediately be terminated!

EDIT: Since I'm holding CE, I would my Gren like to be delivered in 4,25t ;-)

 

[Davman]

100% agree. I was talking to Ineos about this yesterday in Australia . The main payload restrictions in the Grenadier are due to the drivers licensing issues around Ineos’s global market. Apparently Australia is one of the only ones that allow for a 4.5T GVM on a standard drivers license ( not sure on the USA) Due to homologation, Australia just gets what the rest of the world gets - despite the engineering allowing for much more, and the drivers licensing allowing for much more.

 

[TD5-90]

100% agree. I was talking to Ineos about this yesterday in Australia . The main payload restrictions in the Grenadier are due to the drivers licensing issues around Ineos’s global market. Apparently Australia is one of the only ones that allow for a 4.5T GVM on a standard drivers license. Due to homologation, Australia just gets what the rest of the world gets - despite the engineering allowing for much more, and the drivers licensing allowing for much more.

In the earlier times, when Germany was a country worth living in, a "Klasse 3" licence for passenger cars allowed you to drive GVM 7,5t and GCM 12t.

 

[WyomingRoaming]

That’s very interesting that the main restrictions are licenses. I’m glad to hear that that is the case and it is not necessarily a mechanical limit of the vehicle. Just for the record a standard US license is up to 13 tons

 

[To]

In the earlier times, when Germany was a country worth living in, a "Klasse 3" licence for passenger cars allowed you to drive GVM 7,5t and GCM 12t.+

You should finally forget about political statements. I, at least, don't need your comments. Why don't you go where life is better? Who is stopping you? I recommend Ukraine at the moment.

 

[DCPU]

That’s very interesting that the main restrictions are licenses. I’m glad to hear that that is the case and it is not necessarily a mechanical limit of the vehicle. Just for the record a standard US license is up to 13 tons

I always wondered about those huge toy haulers.

 

[Tom D]

In the earlier times, when Germany was a country worth living in, a "Klasse 3" licence for passenger cars allowed you to drive GVM 7,5t and GCM 12t.

They don't realise how much they affect peoples lives when they do this. They changed licences here several times, anyone who passed their test before 1997 was able (and is still able) to drive a combined MAM of 8250kg. However post 97 licences were restricted to 4250 combined MAM. (3500kg vehicle +750kg trailer) This was a massive PITA for employers like me as we’d have to pay to put staff through additional training to drive our vehicles. Then last year they put it back to the old system and so now all licences can drive up to 7000kg again (3500kg vehicle + 3500kg trailer)… It was the right decision as I would prefer to employ some one who already had the entitlement rather than a youngster who didn’t, this was discriminatory. Its a better system now.

I still have the entitlement to drive up to 7500kg vehicle + 750 trailer or any combined MAM less than 8250kg, but they didn’t give that one back to the kids… maybe they will some day..

But anyone over 21 can drive a tractor on their normal licence up to crazy weights.. I took mine over the weigh bridge last week, I was 27,000kg…

 

[Eric]

They don't realise how much they affect peoples lives when they do this. They changed licences here several times, anyone who passed their test before 1997 was able (and is still able) to drive a combined MAM of 8250kg. However post 97 licences were restricted to 4250 combined MAM. (3500kg vehicle +750kg trailer) This was a massive PITA for employers like me as we’d have to pay to put staff through additional training to drive our vehicles. Then last year they put it back to the old system and so now all licences can drive up to 7000kg again (3500kg vehicle + 3500kg trailer)… It was the right decision as I would prefer to employ some one who already had the entitlement rather than a youngster who didn’t, this was discriminatory. Its a better system now.

I still have the entitlement to drive up to 7500kg vehicle + 750 trailer or any combined MAM less than 8250kg, but they didn’t give that one back to the kids… maybe they will some day..

But anyone over 21 can drive a tractor on their normal licence up to crazy weights.. I took mine over the weigh bridge last week, I was 27,000kg…

And your licence expires at 70 and has to be renewed every 3 years. And if you do it online, quick and simple, you drop back to 3.5T vehicles

 

[TD5-90]

And your licence expires at 70 and has to be renewed every 3 years. And if you do it online, quick and simple, you drop back to 3.5T vehicles

Nowadays in Europe you don't find governments working _for_ the people rather than against them. The rare exceptions prove the rule.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

This thread is getting rather impassioned in both tone and rhetoric and is definitely going the wrong way for an automotive forum in the public domain which tries to keep out of politics.

The thread is concerning a GVM upgrade...

For personal filtration there is an ignore function built in to the platform, hover over a members username and you'll see the 'ignore' button next to the start conversation button. Although I suggest you start a conversation first as misunderstandings are unfortunately very easy online.

 

[chriscroft]

Uprating

As you may be aware, the DVSA is paying close attention to the condition and weight of vehicles, because over recent years it has found that more and more of them are running overloaded. SvTech can uprate most makes and models of motorhomes, horseboxes, minibuses, pickups and LCVs;

www.svtech.co.uk

We have a motorhome, and this company up-plates various commercial vehicles in the UK
No modifications mostly, It's just a desktop exercise once the vehicle has been type-tested by them,
If you add the two axel max weights together, it's invariably higher than the vehicle's max weight, to allow for uneven loading.

Subject to SVTech assessing/testing the vehicle and the axel max loads allowing it, this could be interesting.
The website talks about upto 500kg extra load, which would in the case of the Grenadier take it above the magical 1-tonne payload,

Does anybody know the max axel loads for the Grenadier?

 

[Steve.B]

Uprating

As you may be aware, the DVSA is paying close attention to the condition and weight of vehicles, because over recent years it has found that more and more of them are running overloaded. SvTech can uprate most makes and models of motorhomes, horseboxes, minibuses, pickups and LCVs;

www.svtech.co.uk

We have a motorhome, and this company up-plates various commercial vehicles in the UK
No modifications mostly, It's just a desktop exercise once the vehicle has been type-tested by them,
If you add the two axel max weights together, it's invariably higher than the vehicle's max weight, to allow for uneven loading.

Subject to SVTech assessing/testing the vehicle and the axel max loads allowing it, this could be interesting.
The website talks about upto 500kg extra load, which would in the case of the Grenadier take it above the magical 1-tonne payload,

Does anybody know the max axel loads for the Grenadier?

In Australia if you have a seperate chassis it is very simple to get a combined max axle load GVM upgrade without booking a day at a race track for swerve tests, and with standard suspension in most cases, and the massive expense involved.
I did that with my current Amarok, (although I had already upgraded to Bilstein suspension ) taking the GVM from 3080kg to 3305kg, 225kg is not a massive upgrade, but all I needed.
The inspector at Regency Park told me I could off done the upgrade on standard suspension.

 

[DCPU]

Does anybody know the max axel loads for the Grenadier?

Good question, after a brief look through existing literature, I can't seem to find them.

Edit: but it was in the photos...



.....On this thread

Two visits: Yesterday with Barney at Krah + Enders and today with my wife at LeTech

Yesterday and today were completely dedicated to the Grenadier. Let's start with the less spectacular part: Yesterday we (my wife and I) met with @Barney at Krah + Enders. It was the first time we saw each other in the flesh, and we had some really entertaining and interesting hours. For all of...

www.theineosforum.com

Note, if reposting images from elsewhere on the forum, please use a link instead of uploading duplicates, it really helps.

Thank you.

Stu.

 

[Steve.B]

Good question, after a brief look through existing literature, I can't seem to find them.

Edit: but it was in the photos...
View attachment 7806369

That's 3817kg, so a 317kg GVM upgrade, or in Australia where the GVM is 3550kg a 267kg GVM upgrade.
So in Australia at least it should be simple, and relatively cheap to get a 267kg GVM upgrade with a minor engineers report, but if you go over 267kg you will need an extensive engineers report with multiple high speed fully laden emergency stops and swerve tests, the hiring of a test facility, suspension upgrades, and suitably rated tyres and rims.
When I did the combined axel GVM upgrade on my Amarok in 2021 the cost all up including the engineers report and the government inspection at regency park South Australia was approximately $1400.00, if I had gone above the max axle rates for the GVM the engineer said it would be an extra $8000.00 plus suspension modifications.
The engineer also told me that if you did identical upgrades on multiple vehicles you would only have to pay for one extensive engineers report.