Spare parts ordering, issues

[emax]

Today I got a call from INEOS - which was a new experience again.

The guy which called me is named Philip. First of all, he seemed to talk in a language I never heard before. And since I do not tell my name before an unknown caller introduces himself, I was for a moment on the edge to hang up. But then I recognized the word "INEOS". Aha.

It turned out that Philip is a native African and so is his pronunciation: African English at it's hardest.
This is not an insult, on the contrary: He was very friendly and humorous, a really nice guy. Nevertheless, that was one of the hardest African pronunciation I have ever heard. He natively comes from Rwanda - or Uganda, that was unfortunately not to understand exactly.

I am actually quite fluent in English and have learned to deal with Italians, Irish, Indians and other challenges. But ok, I got a call from INEOS, after all.

He didn't know a single word of German, so of course I introduced myself in English, and bit by bit it became clear what it was all about.

I had, and this was certainly three weeks ago, asked Customer Support where you can actually order spare parts, and how you can get the spare part numbers. In my request I had also explained that I was looking for a direct sales channel without an agent that I could use from anywhere in the world.

It turned out that my request could not be processed because the ticket system needs a "problem" in the sense of a defect or error, and therefore no ticket could be created .... (and I got the stupid answer that they "regret the incidence ... blabla ...").

​

The call was apparently made because I had written another, somewhat more clearly worded email to INEOS last week.
It took him a moment to understand that there was no such problem, but that I'm just looking for another grab handle for the A-pillar on the driver's side.
In fact he had apparently called my agent and asked why the handle was missing or removed from my car ....

​

After some back and forth I got the answer that spare parts MUST ALWAYS be ordered ONLY FROM THE AGENT. That would be binding.

​

He also gave me a name for the after sales business, which I had never heard before: Leif Scholz, spelled and read back in the international alphabet "Lima-Echo-India-Foxtrot ..."

I must emphasize once again that this was a really nice guy. But if you are not fluent in English and understand really hard dialects, you will have a hard time.

The whole thing raises -not only in terms of content- several questions:

• How can Ineos assign someone without a word of German to contact a customer in Germany who can't a priori be assumed to speak English at all?
• And even if he did, the conversation would very likely have failed from the start, given the particular communication problems. INEOS, you are really doing EVERYTHING wrong. This is unbelievable.
• On the subject of distribution channels: surely INEOS can't be serious about forcing us to go to agents for every bolt?
• On the subject of prices: I wanted to know whether INEOS sets fixed prices for spare parts, or whether the prices are set by the dealer in the manner of a lord of the manor? He could not give me an answer, and pointed me to the name "Leif Scholz".

Now we know that the answers of the support can only be as good or wrong as the people behind the support. I therefore still have the hope that direct orders are perhaps possible.

If not, then I'm really pissed off at how we should be screwed here. And on the subject of spare part numbers and drawings came then only the reference to the dealer.

My question to you:

1. what is your take on this?
2. how can we build up pressure so that the agent compulsion for spare parts is cancelled?
3. who knows the name Leif Scholz?
4. who knows another name to which one can turn ?

typo​

 

[Arkaig]

Today I got a call from INEOS - which was a new experience again.

The guy which called me is named Philip. First of all, he seemed to talk in a language I never heard before. And since I do not tell my name before an unknown caller introduces himself, I was for a moment on the edge to hang up. But then I recognized the word "INEOS". Aha.

It turned out that Philip is a native African and so is his pronunciation: African English at it's hardest.
This is not an insult, on the contrary: He was very friendly and humorous, a really nice guy. Nevertheless, that was one of the hardest African pronunciation I have ever heard. He is from Rwanda - or Uganda, that was unfortunately not to understand exactly.

I am actually quite fluent in English and have learned to deal with Italians, Irish, Indians and other challenges. But ok, I got a call from INEOS, after all.

He didn't know a single word of German, so of course I introduced myself in English, and bit by bit it became clear what it was all about.

I had, and this was certainly three weeks ago, asked Customer Support where you can actually order spare parts, and how you can get the spare part numbers. In my request I had also explained that I was looking for a direct sales channel without an agent that I could use from anywhere in the world.

It turned out that my request could not be processed because the ticket system needs a "problem" in the sense of a defect or error, and therefore no ticket could be created .... (and I got the stupid answer that they "regret the incidence ...).

​

The call was apparently made because I had written another, somewhat more clearly worded email to INEOS last week.
It took him a moment to understand that there was no such problem, but that I'm just looking for another grab handle for the A-pillar on the driver's side.
In fact he had apparently called my agent and asked why the handle was missing or removed from my car ....

​

After some back and forth I got the answer that spare parts MUST ALWAYS be ordered ONLY FROM THE AGENT. That would be binding.

​

He also gave me a name for the after sales business, which I had never heard before: Leif Scholz, spelled and read back in the international alphabet "Lima-Echo-India-Foxtrot ..."

I must emphasize once again that this was a really nice guy. But if you are not fluent in English and understand really hard dialects, you will have a hard time.

The whole thing raises -not only in terms of content- several questions:

• How can Ineos assign someone without a word of German to contact a customer in Germany who can't a priori be assumed to speak English at all?
• And even if he did, the conversation would very likely have failed from the start, given the particular communication problems. INEOS, you are really doing EVERYTHING wrong. This is unbelievable.
• On the subject of distribution channels: surely INEOS can't be serious about forcing us to go to agents for every bolt?
• On the subject of prices: I wanted to know whether INEOS sets fixed prices for spare parts, or whether the prices are set by the dealer in the manner of a lord of the manor? He could not give me an answer, and pointed me to the name "Leif Scholz".

Now we know that the answers of the support can only be as good or wrong as the people behind the support. I therefore still have the hope that direct orders are perhaps possible.

If not, then I'm really pissed off at how we should be screwed here. And on the subject of spare part numbers and drawings came then only the reference to the dealer.

My question to you:

1. what is you take on this?
2. how can we build up pressure so that the agent compulsion for spare parts is cancelled?
3. who knows the name Leif Scholz?
4. who knows another name to which one can turn ?

@emax - 3. who knows the name Leif Scholz?

From @Burki's post - https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/gibt-es-eine-e-mail-adresse-f%C3%BCr-anfragen-in-d.12412542/#post-1333191897 - Leif Scholz is listed there:-

 

[AnD3rew]

Today I got a call from INEOS - which was a new experience again.

The guy which called me is named Philip. First of all, he seemed to talk in a language I never heard before. And since I do not tell my name before an unknown caller introduces himself, I was for a moment on the edge to hang up. But then I recognized the word "INEOS". Aha.

It turned out that Philip is a native African and so is his pronunciation: African English at it's hardest.
This is not an insult, on the contrary: He was very friendly and humorous, a really nice guy. Nevertheless, that was one of the hardest African pronunciation I have ever heard. He is from Rwanda - or Uganda, that was unfortunately not to understand exactly.

I am actually quite fluent in English and have learned to deal with Italians, Irish, Indians and other challenges. But ok, I got a call from INEOS, after all.

He didn't know a single word of German, so of course I introduced myself in English, and bit by bit it became clear what it was all about.

I had, and this was certainly three weeks ago, asked Customer Support where you can actually order spare parts, and how you can get the spare part numbers. In my request I had also explained that I was looking for a direct sales channel without an agent that I could use from anywhere in the world.

It turned out that my request could not be processed because the ticket system needs a "problem" in the sense of a defect or error, and therefore no ticket could be created .... (and I got the stupid answer that they "regret the incidence ... blabla ...").

​

The call was apparently made because I had written another, somewhat more clearly worded email to INEOS last week.
It took him a moment to understand that there was no such problem, but that I'm just looking for another grab handle for the A-pillar on the driver's side.
In fact he had apparently called my agent and asked why the handle was missing or removed from my car ....

​

After some back and forth I got the answer that spare parts MUST ALWAYS be ordered ONLY FROM THE AGENT. That would be binding.

​

He also gave me a name for the after sales business, which I had never heard before: Leif Scholz, spelled and read back in the international alphabet "Lima-Echo-India-Foxtrot ..."

I must emphasize once again that this was a really nice guy. But if you are not fluent in English and understand really hard dialects, you will have a hard time.

The whole thing raises -not only in terms of content- several questions:

• How can Ineos assign someone without a word of German to contact a customer in Germany who can't a priori be assumed to speak English at all?
• And even if he did, the conversation would very likely have failed from the start, given the particular communication problems. INEOS, you are really doing EVERYTHING wrong. This is unbelievable.
• On the subject of distribution channels: surely INEOS can't be serious about forcing us to go to agents for every bolt?
• On the subject of prices: I wanted to know whether INEOS sets fixed prices for spare parts, or whether the prices are set by the dealer in the manner of a lord of the manor? He could not give me an answer, and pointed me to the name "Leif Scholz".

Now we know that the answers of the support can only be as good or wrong as the people behind the support. I therefore still have the hope that direct orders are perhaps possible.

If not, then I'm really pissed off at how we should be screwed here. And on the subject of spare part numbers and drawings came then only the reference to the dealer.

My question to you:

1. what is you take on this?
2. how can we build up pressure so that the agent compulsion for spare parts is cancelled?
3. who knows the name Leif Scholz?
4. who knows another name to which one can turn ?

I would have thought that it was relatively normal practice for OE parts to be only available from dealers/agents for new vehicles, over time for popular cars, generic parts often become available but not immediately.

 

[Tazzieman]

Easier to screw a piece of knotted rope into the A pillar I would have thought.

 

[DenisM]

I doubt any dealer/agent is going to get rich solely on the handling / delivery fee. They tend to survive on servicing/spare parts /second hand sales

 

[Trialmaster]

I agree - the spoken English that many call centres use is nearly unintelligible. I don’t think there is a native speaker working for any of the call centres in the UK. Mostly, East European, African or Indian.

 

[emax]

INEOS said we could get 3D CAD parts drawings and lists and repair the cars ourselves. It was never discussed that agents or dealers are the obligatory man in the middle. They even once offered to deliver the car right to your driveway so no agent was involved at all.

Whether a dealership or agent "gets rich" or not doesn't matter. I saw Krah & Enders (my agent) charge 490 euros just for registering, fueling and cleaning a (brand new!) car on delivery. This is generally illegal in Germany if it is not part of the contract (and it wasn't) and the costs are listed and guaranteed.

And I bet that for a spare part of say 150 euros, a processing fee of about 100 euros could easily be added without any scruples. So even if parts prices are fixed, nobody can stop an agent from adding a handling fee (although they are already being paid by INEOS for the service).

And otherwise: the way INEOS communicated all this gave the impression that you could order the spare parts found in the CAD tools yourself. Unfortunately I haven't kept evidence of this as there seemed no reason not to believe it.

All in all, the marketing promises (or claims) - evidence or not - do not live up to the expectations they aroused. Nothing new so far.

I would have thought that it was relatively normal practice for OE parts to be only available from dealers/agents for new vehicles,

In Germany you can buy spare parts for Audi, VW, Mercedes and other brands (be they new or not) in many "free" shops, here called "Fachhandel", "specialized retailers". Without dealerships involved. So there is competition and so the prices vary significantly.

 

[DenisM]

INEOS said we could get 3D CAD parts drawings and lists and repair the cars ourselves. It was never discussed that agents or dealers are the obligatory man in the middle. They even once offered to deliver the car right to your driveway so no agent was involved at all.

Whether a dealership or agent "gets rich" or not doesn't matter. I saw Krah & Enders (my agent) charge 490 euros just for registering, fueling and cleaning a (brand new!) car on delivery. This is generally illegal in Germany if it is not part of the contract (and it wasn't) and the costs are listed and guaranteed.

And I bet that for a spare part of say 150 euros, a processing fee of about 100 euros could easily be added without any scruples. So even if parts prices are fixed, nobody can stop an agent from adding a handling fee (although they are already being paid by INEOS for the service).

And otherwise: the way INEOS communicated all this gave the impression that you could order the spare parts found in the CAD tools yourself. Unfortunately I haven't kept evidence of this as there seemed no reason not to believe it.

All in all, the marketing promises (or claims) - evidence or not - do not live up to the expectations they aroused. Nothing new so far.



In Germany you can buy spare parts for Audi, VW, Mercedes and other brands (be they new or not) in many "free" shops, here called "Fachhandel", "specialized retailers". Without dealerships involved. So there is competition and so the prices vary significantly.

I suspect there'll be a flourishing market in "generic/specialised" parts once the collective heads on this forum put their minds to it I have great faith in the "democracy " of fellow enthusiasts!!

 

[WhiteBear]

Leif Scholz is the DACH-manager. I met him at Spielberg, a very friendly Ineos-representative, who helped me with my wrong produced Utility, when I had to order the car again in march.
Why he has to be asked about spare parts etc. is hardly to understand, the agents are the ones who should know. If they don‘t, they must ask Ineos, not us.

 

[anand]

For reference, this is how parts are sold in the US as well (for all car companies). If they are genuine parts, they will start their sales process through a dealer, not the auto brand itself.

 

[emax]

Remember: In Germany (and most of Europe) it is an "Agent" model. That's entirely different in the US.

That is exactly the problem you have in the US: your dealers add a premium at will. Something I don't want to happen here for spare parts. I've already seen what an agent can add and have completely lost confidence.

Here (in DE), I order the car from INEOS and pay INEOS. So I would expect that this also applies to spare parts.

typo​

 

[Krabby]

That is exactply the problem you have in the US: your dealers add a premium at will. Something I don't want to happen here for spare parts. I've already seen what an agent can add and have completely lost confidence.

US dealers adding a premium to strictly line their greedy pockets at the expense of owners with manufacturers helpless? Not on Uncle Sam’s watch!

 

[DaveB]

I agree - the spoken English that many call centres use is nearly unintelligible. I don’t think there is a native speaker working for any of the call centres in the UK. Mostly, East European, African or Indian.

My customers at the previous company I worked for used to complain they kept getting our overseas call centre and wanted to speak to someone in Australia
I had to explain we didn't have an overseas call centre.
Our Brisbane staff were from Columbia, India, Philippines & Singapore.

 

[AWo]

My wife's company is doing the aftermarket sales for B2B and B2C customers for Nolden lights all over Europe (and sometimes beyond). As you know Nolden produces the main headlights of the IG. Of course we asked Ineos what the aftermarket distribution channels will be. Why did we have to ask them? Because they paid for the development so it is completely up to them to choose the distribution channels. There is a small number of other lights for other car vendors, where the situation is the same. Sometimes it is fine for the manufacturer that lights can be sold separately, sometimes not (the black Hella Xenon 7" lights for the G-Class, for example).

Ineos told us, that they will do the aftermarket sales on their own. So garages, service points, what ever, will be served from the Ineos spare parts stock, for the time being. If they would have choosen a standard light, ready-for-use, we could sell these lights, as Ineos would have been "just" a car manufacturer customer with no rights regarding the distribution.

That can be the same for all other parts, where Ineos paid for the development. They decide who can sell....

Cheers
AWo

 

[emax]

I don't doubt they do.

But their narrative (prior to delivery) was different.

 

[DCPU]

I would have thought that it was relatively normal practice for OE parts to be only available from dealers/agents for new vehicles, over time for popular cars, generic parts often become available but not immediately.

This was never the deal with Ineos. Of that I am certain. Right from the get go, Ineos were saying things would be different. The agency model meant it could all be done online up to the point of purchase. Agents would just be for collection/delivery.

Then people would be free to service their own vehicle, the CAD-IT system giving them all the granular details necessary, INCLUDING parts ordering direct.

The bloke on the second right explained all this on the live streaming event. The video of which seems to have disappeared - along with two of the people...





I think they've rowed back on both the 3D technical info and direct parts ordering either under pressure from agents, or as a sweetener for the delays which must have hurt some agents carrying dedicated staff and premises.

Edit: For a typo.

 

[Jean Mercier]

This was never the deal with Ineos. Of that I am certain. Right from the get go, Ineos were saying things would be different. The agency model meant it could all be done online up to the point of purchase. Agents would just be for collection/delivery.

Then people would be fee to service their own vehicle, the CAD-IT system giving them all the granular details necessary, INCLUDING parts ordering direct.

The bloke on the second right explained all this on the live streaming event. The video of which seems to have disappeared - along with two of the people...
View attachment 7818082


View attachment 7818079

I think they've rowed back on both the 3D technical info and direct parts ordering either under pressure from agents, or as a sweetener for the delays which must have hurt some agents carrying dedicated staff and premises.

It is clear that Ineos promised us a very different approach ... but until now I don't see any difference with other businesses, business is business
Where are my maintenance manuals, wiring diagrams, maintaining my car myself?
I don't pretend that I can do everything myself, not at all, but where is the information that Ineos would provide us?

 

[emax]

This was never the deal with Ineos. Of that I am certain. Right from the get go, Ineos were saying things would be different. The agency model meant it could all be done online up to the point of purchase. Agents would just be for collection/delivery.

Then people would be fee to service their own vehicle, the CAD-IT system giving them all the granular details necessary, INCLUDING parts ordering direct.

The bloke on the second right explained all this on the live streaming event. The video of which seems to have disappeared - along with two of the people...
View attachment 7818082


View attachment 7818079

I think they've rowed back on both the 3D technical info and direct parts ordering either under pressure from agents, or as a sweetener for the delays which must have hurt some agents carrying dedicated staff and premises.

@DCPU, you've just got my first LOVE icon, I believe. ;-)

I will archive this post, as I clearly know it was so, but had null evidence.



PS: If you still have the youtube ID of the video (it it was on youtube) there is some hope to still find it. A URL line would be helpful.

Or the "way back machine", if you have a link.

 

[Jeremy996]

I will have a major sense of humour failure if I cannot get spares outside of the dealer network, directly from Ineos. I will have a major fit If I do not get the workshop manual and the spares list originally explained as it is a key reason for me to buy the vehicle.

Pedal back on that and they will be buying it back off me.

 

[Eric.S.]

This was never the deal with Ineos. Of that I am certain. Right from the get go, Ineos were saying things would be different. The agency model meant it could all be done online up to the point of purchase. Agents would just be for collection/delivery.

Then people would be fee to service their own vehicle, the CAD-IT system giving them all the granular details necessary, INCLUDING parts ordering direct.

The bloke on the second right explained all this on the live streaming event. The video of which seems to have disappeared - along with two of the people...
View attachment 7818082


View attachment 7818079

I think they've rowed back on both the 3D technical info and direct parts ordering either under pressure from agents, or as a sweetener for the delays which must have hurt some agents carrying dedicated staff and premises.

Here Please save it

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=317891760134261

View: https://www.facebook.com/INEOSGrenadier/videos/317891760134261/