General Service Reset Procedure - Oil Change (currently only possible with dealer level scan tools)

[JKAlpine]

Agreed, but it seems the fine folks at Ineos decided that those of us 1000’s of miles or KM’s away from an Ineos service center need to drag our ass to Ineos to reset a service light. Because at Ineos you make money by forcing people to get the oil changed at an Ineos service center. To hell with where you are, you will service your vehicle by Ineos or suffer the non stop reminder. Because at Ineos the customer comes last. Bend over and accept your fate

Ineos likely provides the base oil for any brand you’ll use on the Grenadier, so they’ll get paid either way.

 

[AZ1266]

Not happy with my local Ineos dealer now. Just to reset maintenance I’m told $75.

Ineos is really digging a knife in their foot on this one. I was in the belief this vehicles was meant to go remote places and with that simple maintenance.

So it’s one or the other. Reset at no cost or provide the means to self reset. It’s just maintenance on a vehicle for crying out loud. Not remapping software on a F22 Raptor.

Maybe a real estate mogul in a G550 brings it to the dealer to spend $800 for new wiper blades. This isn’t that expensive of a vehicle and those guys don’t give a s—t about driving to Alaska and back down to Darien Gap , at least. I’m retired, got time on my hands, I know how to work on vehicles. Why make this complicated?

Between ADAS clicking, mystery bongs and gongs that sounds like a casino, we just want control over an item we purchased. One way or another we will get access to service menus. I just figured how to access hidden menu. Not that it has any means to reset that I know of. This is ridiculous.

Similar gripe on the ridiculous cost for a simple hitch add on.

 

[IslandFalconer]

Not happy with my local Ineos dealer now. Just to reset maintenance I’m told $75.

Ineos is really digging a knife in their foot on this one. I was in the belief this vehicles was meant to go remote places and with that simple maintenance.

So it’s one or the other. Reset at no cost or provide the means to self reset. It’s just maintenance on a vehicle for crying out loud. Not remapping software on a F22 Raptor.

Maybe a real estate mogul in a G550 brings it to the dealer to spend $800 for new wiper blades. This isn’t that expensive of a vehicle and those guys don’t give a s—t about driving to Alaska and back down to Darien Gap , at least. I’m retired, got time on my hands, I know how to work on vehicles. Why make this complicated?

Between ADAS clicking, mystery bongs and gongs that sounds like a casino, we just want control over an item we purchased. One way or another we will get access to service menus. I just figured how to access hidden menu. Not that it has any means to reset that I know of. This is ridiculous.

Similar gripe on the ridiculous cost for a simple hitch add on.

Ineos doesn’t give a Sadly. And Lynn Calder isn’t exactly forthcoming with information. So much for the letter

 

[AZ1266]

Ineos doesn’t give a Sadly. And Lynn Calder isn’t exactly forthcoming with information. So much for the letter

No kidding. You’d think Ineos would consider those of us who advertise their vehicle to the world. We are the ones putting ourselves out here financially for their product too. Nobody is asking for free oil and fluid changes. This is a simple maintenance reset. Along with user controlled nanny features. LATER we will be demanding full maintenance access. If they don’t I’m sure someone will step up and capitalize on the situation. They need to consider what we are to say about their product. Not to them, to other buyers.

If anything do not keep Ineos owners in the dark.

Simple request. Make these vehicles owner serviceable. If not I’ll go back to a s—t box Jeep no problem.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Calder claims that they are now working with aftermarket diagnostic makers to allow integration with Ineos’ software…

 

[Jiman01]

Calder claims that they are now working with aftermarket diagnostic makers to allow integration with Ineos’ software…

That’s good to here, although in the mean time they could do us a solid by reimbursing the dealer for a reset reminder.

 

[IslandFalconer]

Calder claims that they are now working with aftermarket diagnostic makers to allow integration with Ineos’ software…

Calder made claims and not many have become reality.
Software Update? Sure if your truck is new enough, Manuals? Not yet, Oil Reset? Not yet. All the corporate BS language one can imagine. All talk no substance.

 

[AnD3rew]

I have a number of code readers, including Autel, Innova, etc, but none of them have the ABS bleeding, service reset or TPMS programming so I was thinking of taking this opportunity to get a new scan tool that will do all of these. I have been looking at the Foxwell N650 (link below). I have never used a tool to reset the service reminder, but I am guessing that it will likely work. Foxwell supports a whole host of vehicles, basically all of them, including BMW, so I am hoping it will work. Worst case - I have a new scan tool that I know I will use for something.

Once we figure out this whole service reset - I am going to need to figure out a way to get the tech software on my own laptop. I have done that for all of my Toyota vehicles (Techstream) and I have access to everything, including key programming, etc. One step at a time with INEOS……

Foxwell NT650 Elite Bi-directional Code Reader ABS Bleeding SRS Airbag

Foxwell NT650 Elite Is Upgrade Version Of NT630 & NT630 Plus. Note:"Although NT650 Elite doesn't currently support control module coding or key programming, it excels in diagnosing ABS systems and SRS systems." Benefits and Features of Foxwell NT650 Elite: Wide Vehicle Compatibility: Provides...

www.foxwelldiag.com

I have a Foxwell but it only reads the generic codes which are not Grenadier specific, it won’t recognize it as a BMW and you can’t clear codes or do any resets etc.

 

[tnkatoy]

I was just talking to a colleagje (who owns a farm) about a case in the US where John Deere has been taken to court for restricting access to information and systems for repairs to John Deere equipment.

Is it wrong to see a parallel with the limitation on being able to update the Grenadier service info ?

 

[Jiman01]

I was just talking to a colleagje (who owns a farm) about a case in the US where John Deere has been taken to court for restricting access to information and systems for repairs to John Deere equipment.

Is it wrong to see a parallel with the limitation on being able to update the Grenadier service info ?

Probably.

In the US there is an act that was passed through Congress in the ‘70s, as a consumer protection regulation. https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/b...nty-federal-trade-commission-improvements-act

Basically it tells manufacturers they can’t compell an owner to use their services, branded products, or parts with the threat of voiding the warranty. As long as the owner uses, oil for example, that meets/exceeds the OEM spec, Ineos can’t make you buy INEOS branded Oil/filter. They can tell you they recommend it and say it’s the best oil for your engine, but can’t void your warranty if you use Castrol or elect to have someone else do the service…including you. Obviously it has to be done correctly/competently.

I don’t know if there's any precedent regarding resetting the service light in court, but I’d imagine if it’s a step in the INEOS service manual, the courts would compell INEOS to create a way for the owner to be able to reset their own reminder w/o going to an INEOS dealer. I’d imagine in the eyes of the court, INEOS would be forcing the consumer to specifically use an INEOS service. OTOH, it doesn’t affect the drivability or function of the vehicle if the service reminder light stays on

The Act also has provisions that states it is up to the manufacturer to prove any non-OEM item, in this case oil, is what caused your engine to break vs. making the customer prove their actions didn’t cause the warranty claim. So if your engine blows and the dealer says they’re not covering the repair/replacement under warranty because of the oil you used, you have protections/rights under the Act.

 

[landmannnn]

I was just talking to a colleagje (who owns a farm) about a case in the US where John Deere has been taken to court for restricting access to information and systems for repairs to John Deere equipment.

Is it wrong to see a parallel with the limitation on being able to update the Grenadier service info ?

A well publicised case where John Deere lost and user software was made available.

You can imagine the frustration of a farmer; code comes up, stuck in a field for half a day, fitter turns up and resets code in 15 seconds.

In practice a car (as opposed to a complex agricultural machine) by law has an obd port and standard codes that can be investigated and cleared.

As yet the service reset is dealer only. It doesn't stop you driving, so unlikely that it breaches the right to repair.

 

[OkGo]

There is also stuff like this https://www.morganlewis.com/pubs/20...ehicle-data-for-independent-vehicle-repairers

 

[CRH]

There is also stuff like this https://www.morganlewis.com/pubs/20...ehicle-data-for-independent-vehicle-repairers

I thought this should be the case as we are allowed to take vehicles to VAT registered service centres outside of the manufacturer and still be within the warranty provided all original parts are used. Without being able to access the software this would not be possible, therefore it must mean that it has to be easily available to all service centres

 

[grnamin]

I'm curious how @Matt P is handling this, being on some of the most remote roads and trails for long periods at a time.

 

[OkGo]

I cant seem to find it now, but i am sure there is legislation around OBD and what it must enable along standards based protocols.

 

[Jeremy996]

I cant seem to find it now, but i am sure there is legislation around OBD and what it must enable along standards based protocols.

Only emissions and engine stuff; the rest is the wild west; there is some standardisation but only because the companies who make the body systems are few in number.

 

[Matt P]

I'm curious how @Matt P is handling this, being on some of the most remote roads and trails for long periods at a time.

We’re documenting all the work that’s been done and where, keeping receipts etc and unfortunately accepting the annoying bing bongs. There’s not much else you can do. I’m used to them as I used to fly an Airbus.. but it’s really not ideal.

I keep a close eye on all forums, groups globally etc to see if anyone has had a breakthrough with this but to my knowledge, it’s a visit to the dealer. For us the last INEOS dealer was Bulgaria and the next one is Mongolia.. (We had to go to BMW, on advice from INEOS, for the service in between)

You can’t advertise a global overland vehicle, built for anything, and then have issues like this. It makes no sense and just builds frustration amongst owners and those that have taken the plunge…

Such simple things that could’ve been dealt with a long time ago. It’s a shame as this is what people focus on. They’ve done such a brilliant job with the vehicle and it’s these small things that wind people up and what they talk about to their friends. Remove sources of frustration and they’ll sell themselves..

 

[Voader - Oudersopzwier]

As a European company. At least the vehicles are produced in Europe. Headquarters probably in te United Kingdom (Not EU). There is the European Right of Repair bill.
I think Ineos should read it.

Unfortunately, this directive came into force on 30 July, 2024. And manufacturers still have 24 months to comply.
So we still have to wait until 1 August 2026 before we can file a lawsuit.

Key aspects of the EU Right to Repair Directive that support DIY repairs:

• Access to Information:
  Manufacturers will provide access to detailed repair and maintenance information, including parts drawings, repair manuals, wiring diagrams, and error codes, as mandated by Ecodesign rules for certain products.
  
  
• Availability of Spare Parts:
  The directive will require manufacturers to make spare parts available at reasonable prices and for a period that aligns with the product's expected lifespan.
  
  
• Prohibition of Obstacles:
  Manufacturers are prohibited from using contractual clauses, hardware, or software that prevent consumers or independent repairers from carrying out repairs.
  
  
• Support for Independent Repairers:
  The directive promotes a competitive repair market by ensuring that consumers and independent professionals have free access to repair information and tools.
  
  
• Extended Legal Guarantee:
  Consumers can extend their legal guarantee by one year if they choose to have a product repaired.
  
  
• European Repair Information Form:
  This form will help consumers compare repair services by providing transparent information on repair conditions and prices.
  
  
• Online Repair Platform:
  A platform will be established to connect consumers with suitable repairers in their local area, making it easier to find someone to help or to learn more about the repair process.

In summary: The Right to Repair directive provides consumers with the tools and information to repair products themselves or through independent repairers, fostering a more sustainable and circular economy by making repair a viable and attractive option.

 

[landmannnn]

As a European company. At least the vehicles are produced in Europe. Headquarters probably in te United Kingdom (Not EU). There is the European Right of Repair bill.
I think Ineos should read it.

Unfortunately, this directive came into force on 30 July, 2024. And manufacturers still have 24 months to comply.
So we still have to wait until 1 August 2026 before we can file a lawsuit.

Key aspects of the EU Right to Repair Directive that support DIY repairs:

• Access to Information:
  Manufacturers will provide access to detailed repair and maintenance information, including parts drawings, repair manuals, wiring diagrams, and error codes, as mandated by Ecodesign rules for certain products.
  
  
• Availability of Spare Parts:
  The directive will require manufacturers to make spare parts available at reasonable prices and for a period that aligns with the product's expected lifespan.
  
  
• Prohibition of Obstacles:
  Manufacturers are prohibited from using contractual clauses, hardware, or software that prevent consumers or independent repairers from carrying out repairs.
  
  
• Support for Independent Repairers:
  The directive promotes a competitive repair market by ensuring that consumers and independent professionals have free access to repair information and tools.
  
  
• Extended Legal Guarantee:
  Consumers can extend their legal guarantee by one year if they choose to have a product repaired.
  
  
• European Repair Information Form:
  This form will help consumers compare repair services by providing transparent information on repair conditions and prices.
  
  
• Online Repair Platform:
  A platform will be established to connect consumers with suitable repairers in their local area, making it easier to find someone to help or to learn more about the repair process.

In summary: The Right to Repair directive provides consumers with the tools and information to repair products themselves or through independent repairers, fostering a more sustainable and circular economy by making repair a viable and attractive option.

A huge but....

Looking at his table below, cars are not covered by this directive.

Actually it only really covers domestic white goods, computers, phones and welders(?)

 

[globalgregors]

We’re documenting all the work that’s been done and where, keeping receipts etc and unfortunately accepting the annoying bing bongs. There’s not much else you can do. I’m used to them as I used to fly an Airbus.. but it’s really not ideal.

I keep a close eye on all forums, groups globally etc to see if anyone has had a breakthrough with this but to my knowledge, it’s a visit to the dealer. For us the last INEOS dealer was Bulgaria and the next one is Mongolia.. (We had to go to BMW, on advice from INEOS, for the service in between)

You can’t advertise a global overland vehicle, built for anything, and then have issues like this. It makes no sense and just builds frustration amongst owners and those that have taken the plunge…

Such simple things that could’ve been dealt with a long time ago. It’s a shame as this is what people focus on. They’ve done such a brilliant job with the vehicle and it’s these small things that wind people up and what they talk about to their friends. Remove sources of frustration and they’ll sell themselves..

We have a few arrangements in place in light of the long range remote nature of our journey, and the reality that we’re likely to have some breakages away from the service network:

• After some correspondence early on we maintain an Ineos UK-recommended arduous service interval of 10,000kms.
• We service our vehicle at Ineos service agents wherever possible. Otherwise we take the vehicle to a competent workshop where the service and any other work is executed under my hands-on supervision.
• Ineos agents in North America have generally required comms with Ineos Automotive as we’re turning up with an unfamiliar diesel. VIN details are not visible (AFAIK) at a dealer level outside your delivery market, so for global operations a three-way communication is helpful between home dealer/market, local service agent and Ineos. This is important to ensure mandatory work orders, region-specific software updates etc are maintained.
• Our home dealer checks for campaigns against our VIN on a monthly basis, provides pdfs of outstanding MWOs and mails out any parts (within reason) that are required.
• All work is documented and usually mentioned in comms back to Ineos. I photograph and report any exceptional findings for their review/attention simply out of interest for the service tech/after sales team.
• Our service reminder setpoints are increased to cover the duration away from the service network.
• We will obviously take the vehicle to the next available service agent, which in our case would be on the next continent.
• The vehicle itself doesn’t fundamentally require special treatment for routine services. I would do it myself however I like to get the vehicle on a lift and make a close inspection of drivetrain and suspension linkages etc at each service.
• We carry sufficient oil and filters etc onboard to maintain the recommended interval throughout out South America itinerary. Wasn’t planning on carrying the oil, but after finding the recommended spec a bit hard to come by I bit the bullet and bought 20L of it when I found a source. Should see us through for a while.

We have no special arrangement negotiated with Ineos - relationships and connections have just grown organically as we’ve proceeded.

Ineos and the network have collectively exceeded expectations in terms of support. They’ve been great, vastly better for intercontinental expeditions than Land Rover were on our last.