Americas Communications (INEOS and dealer)

[AngusMacG]

Just my impression of communications from INEOS and my local dealer.

I am underwhelmed regarding communications from post-reservation and follow-ups. For a new vehicle and company(ies) entering the market I would expect more updates from both INEOS and local dealers. It does appear that the major communication issues may be with INEOS directly And not local dealers but the lack of direct updates is stunning to me. I just found this forum recently and am impressed with the level of knowledge and detail this community is providing.

It seemed like we were in limbo about the status of building the company and the vehicle for far too long. Yes would we see a video here and there, occasional news stories, etc. INEOS has contacts of everyone (worldwide) that was interested in their product. It doesn’t take much effort to send a targeted email with updates to keep everyone’s interest up. Even after they started accepting pre-orders and then deposits I thought the communications might improve but to no avail.

When INEOS came to the Boston area and announced an event too drive a Grenadier they only provided about 2 days notice. I was unable to attend due to the short notice.

I dropped in on my local dealer when I saw that other dealerships had demo vehicles on hand. NO communication from my local dealer that vehicles were there. When I showed up just to get my first in-person look (which I loved) they told me that they had already began setting up test drives! How could a communication not only not go out that they had vehicles but that were starting to set test drive appointments??? Obviously I made my appointment on the spot.

Clearly the admins and members of this forum are able to find information that neither INEOS nor the dealers are sharing. I know that they are under promising and possibly over delivering but there is a big difference between under promising and just outright not communicating. Hopefully moving forward INEOS and the dealers will have better communication with each other and the end users.

 

[six1five]

I'm sorry to hear you're having a difficult time with communication and can definitely feel your frustration. I've been lucky with Regal Ineos who have kept the channel open for questions, events, and even getting me my VIN when I requested it. Brian and Lane are really great folks and their enthusiasm is superb. Meeting them in person at the Nashville event (where I'm from) really helped to solidify confidence in purchasing the vehicle. However they were in dark about the Morning Claire carrying my vehicle and I haven't received any updates on the vehicle being stateside or delivery. Lane is on the forum now and glad to see their interaction with our community here.

On the IG side, there is immense room for improvement but I also can understand they are a new company working thru the process. The website updates for our orders are subpar to say the least. Even knowing my vehicle has landed in Brunswick (from the post regarding vessel info), it still shows in production. Hopefully this is a growing pain and as time goes on they realize their customers need better communication and information on a more regular and consistent basis.

I do hope your experience gets better and when looking back at this part of the process will be but a faded memory. Waiting 2+ years is tough none-the-less, but once its in your driveway, hopefully it was all worth it.

 

[donnygreygrenadier]

I can certainly understand the frustration. I had my on the road test drive November 10 (more in a future post) and did not learn much with respect to my order that was not already on the Ineos site or that I got from the dealer a few weeks ago (such as the VIN). So I just checked today on the shipping details, for kicks, and found out that my VIN was listed and the vehicle delivered to Baltimore in mid October! I also checked the Ineos site again today and still no change in status. At the end of the day, good news, but one would think that some status updates would have come my way over the last few weeks. Might have a big gift under the tree this Christmas!

 

[Jeffrey]

Perhaps you don't fully understand what an overwhelming task it is to create a new automotive company and to serve thousands of pre orders with dealers that are completely new to the vehicle, immediately have hundreds of orders, and working with INEOS, a foreign company. I think they are doing a good job under the circumstances. Yes, some folks have better experiences than others. That will happen in any situation. I'm learning to be more patient and cut them a little slack. I'm more relaxed by doing that.

 

[Trialmaster]

I can certainly understand the frustration. I had my on the road test drive November 10 (more in a future post) and did not learn much with respect to my order that was not already on the Ineos site or that I got from the dealer a few weeks ago (such as the VIN). So I just checked today on the shipping details, for kicks, and found out that my VIN was listed and the vehicle delivered to Baltimore in mid October! I also checked the Ineos site again today and still no change in status. At the end of the day, good news, but one would think that some status updates would have come my way over the last few weeks. Might have a big gift under the tree this Christmas!

The Ineos site is not fit for purpose, my profile still says in Transit, and this is 5 months after it was delivered to me - go figure. The agent should be everyone contact and not Ineos.

So my advice is forget the INEOS website.

 

[Walter Z]

You have a local dealer!?.....demo vehicles on hand!?...test drive?!....
Still not happy?!.....
You should talk to your neighbor CANADIANS more....

 

[Jean Mercier]

It is NOT funny at all to see that our North American friends (that includes Canada of course) are going through the same shit communication and crap website and lack of information, as we "very early" owners went through.

The car is fantastic, and probably some technical infancy problems will be solved (at least the software) for the North Americans.

But it seems that the Management of Ineos Automotive isn't learning at all. They should really take a thorough management course on Total Quality Management (TQM). The word "total" means: not only technical, but also Customer Satisfaction, Communication (this includes the website), Spare Parts availability, etc. etc.

 

[stickshifter]

It is NOT funny at all to see that our North American friends (that includes Canada of course) are going through the same shit communication and crap website and lack of information, as we "very early" owners went through.

The car is fantastic, and probably some technical infancy problems will be solved (at least the software) for the North Americans.

But it seems that the Management of Ineos Automotive isn't learning at all. They should really take a thorough management course on Total Quality Management (TQM). The word "total" means: not only technical, but also Customer Satisfaction, Communication (this includes the website), Spare Parts availability, etc. etc.

Hi Jean,

Really good to hear you say that the car is fantastic after the trouble you've had. I see the complaints on the forum - and there are a lot - and it gives me pause (among other reasons). My dealer is five hours away, so an unreliable vehicle that needs regular attention from the dealer is going to be unsustainable. But it sounds like you would buy it again - despite the problems. That's the key litmus test.

All the best!

 

[rovie]

It is NOT funny at all to see that our North American friends (that includes Canada of course) are going through the same shit communication and crap website and lack of information, as we "very early" owners went through.

The car is fantastic, and probably some technical infancy problems will be solved (at least the software) for the North Americans.

But it seems that the Management of Ineos Automotive isn't learning at all. They should really take a thorough management course on Total Quality Management (TQM). The word "total" means: not only technical, but also Customer Satisfaction, Communication (this includes the website), Spare Parts availability, etc. etc.

You're not up to date.
TQM was more than 20 years ago. Today, other things probably take centre stage.

No, joking aside. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I was actually hoping that INEOS would learn from its mistakes with us and that our friends in North America wouldn't have to trawl through the forum to find an explanation for the problems. Let's hope that there are also dealers there who will stand up for the owners and their Grenadiers.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the guys.

 

[AngusMacG]

My biggest point is that any marketing or salesperson worth their salt knows how to communicate with their customers…Especially when there are issues, concerns, or problems. INEOS and the dealers have contact information for customers and even a simple 5 minute generic email is better than radio silence for months.

 

[Jeffrey]

TQM is a general term for doing the right thing. My manufacturing company was ISO 9000 certified. It is a Quality Management System, along with AS 9600. I don't know if Ineos is certified as well. No mention of it on their website.

 

[Jean Mercier]

You're not up to date.
TQM was more than 20 years ago. Today, other things probably take centre stage.

No, joking aside. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I was actually hoping that INEOS would learn from its mistakes with us and that our friends in North America wouldn't have to trawl through the forum to find an explanation for the problems. Let's hope that there are also dealers there who will stand up for the owners and their Grenadiers.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the guys.

I agree with you, TQM was about 30, years ago, but everything started then: copying the Japanese quality management systems. And then you had many variations on the same management principle: 6 sigma, etc. etc. And tools like SPC, FMEA, CUSUM, etc. etc. etc.
But I know you are joking

TQM is a general term for doing the right thing. My manufacturing company was ISO 9000 certified. It is a Quality Management System, along with AS 9600. I don't know if Ineos is certified as well. No mention of it on their website.

Completely right!

I would be surprised that the factory in Hambach doesn't have any kind of certification. It is a former Mercedes plant.

I have implemented ISO9000 in quite some companies, but I wasn't that fond of the system itself: the principles are OK, but the way auditing companies and consultants are making money out of it is wrong. But I earned quite some money with it, always going for the simple pragmatic way of getting the certificate, with TQM in my head. I liked much more my Maintenance Management consulting tasks (now called "Asset Management"). No real "certification" needed or wanted.

Once an owner of a company called me, and:

• He: I want an ISO 9000 certification
• Me: You know what it is, and what your obligations will be to maintain it?

He didn't, I explained. He looked surprised and worried.

• Me: are your customers requiring this?
• He: No
• Me: then you don't need it, unless you think your business doesn't provide good quality.

He desisted!

 

[Jeffrey]

I agree with you, TQM was about 30, years ago, but everything started then: copying the Japanese quality management systems. And then you had many variations on the same management principle: 6 sigma, etc. etc. And tools like SPC, FMEA, CUSUM, etc. etc. etc.
But I know you are joking


Completely right!

I would be surprised that the factory in Hambach doesn't have any kind of certification. It is a former Mercedes plant.

I have implemented ISO9000 in quite some companies, but I wasn't that fond of the system itself: the principles are OK, but the way auditing companies and consultants are making money out of it is wrong. But I earned quite some money with it, always going for the simple pragmatic way of getting the certificate, with TQM in my head. I liked much more my Maintenance Management consulting tasks (now called "Asset Management"). No real "certification" needed or wanted.

Once an owner of a company called me, and:

• He: I want an ISO 9000 certification
• Me: You know what it is, and what your obligations will be to maintain it?

He didn't, I explained. He looked surprised and worried.

• Me: are your customers requiring this?
• He: No
• Me: then you don't need it, unless you think your business doesn't provide good quality.

He desisted!

Running an ISO certified operation is more than just meeting your customer's supplier quality requirements. It is based on continual review and investigation for internal improvement. It covers everything you do, from Human Resources to dimensional inspection to shipping and receiving. I was responsible for taking my company there. Not only did I receive better paying contracts because of our certification, but as a company, our quality levels were maintained at over 98%, and that meant less waste, and more profit. Of course, that was after getting over the hump of the expense of the system implementation itself! It was a big part of my career. It changes how you look at everything in your life.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Running an ISO certified operation is more than just meeting your customer's supplier quality requirements. It is based on continual review and investigation for internal improvement.

Of course I know this, that is why I liked the name "Total Quality Management". The word TOTAL is the clue! If we continue this discussion, soon we will have the whole ISO 9000 standard overwritten here , or the TS16949, or any other.
In my whole career of Maintenance and Quality Management consultant, I had very few companies who embraced TQM (and certification) in such a way that I felt "happy" with it. I often succeeded in getting a company certified while deep inside myself I thought: "they don't deserve it yet".
And once the boss of a certification institute told me: "if we are too severe, we won't have any customers anymore, and they will swap to another certification company!"

 

[SUBVET735705769]

Perhaps communication is still limited because the dealers are not yet licensed and permitted by the bureaucracy we call government. If their license from the state is not finalized, then the dealer may be legally limited in communication and function. Just because the trucks are manufactured and on ships heading this way does not mean the dealers have all the processes in place to process and sell them.

 

[AngusMacG]

Just received an email from my dealer…”As we receive updated info from INEOS Grenadier regarding your specific ETA, we will reach out to inform you right away. As of today, we anticipate that early New England Grenadier orders will be delivered during the 1st QTR of 2024 and later orders arriving during the 2nd QTR. We aim to provide great service by sharing all available info as it becomes available. Thanks in advance for your patience.”

seems odd that if my vehicle is in Baltimore for the past few weeks that i wouldn‘t see it until sometime in Q1? Obviously I’m ignorant about logistics of how this usually works but it seems like a vehicle that is technically already sold should be moved before year end for inventory costs, etc.

 

[anand]

seems odd that if my vehicle is in Baltimore for the past few weeks that i wouldn‘t see it until sometime in Q1? Obviously I’m ignorant about logistics of how this usually works but it seems like a vehicle that is technically already sold should be moved before year end for inventory costs, etc.

This is the dealer being one of the very few that is sticking to the official message. Under promise, over deliver.

 

[AnD3rew]

TQM is a general term for doing the right thing. My manufacturing company was ISO 9000 certified. It is a Quality Management System, along with AS 9600. I don't know if Ineos is certified as well. No mention of it on their website.

Would be surprised if they could get the appropriate CE markings and approvals without audited quality certificates

 

[255/85]

I have no idea how car companies are supposed to work but it would be nice if Mr. Greg put out a more frequent update for NAS buyers to keep us feeling that we were all along for the ride. Nothing too stiff and formal. Just a "Hey, we landed another boatload of Grenadiers. Here, check 'em out!" followed by a slow dolly down the line where maybe you'd see your build. That kind of thing. Or maybe a brief look at a single component like the transfer case or the hand brake set-up from lever to caliper. Something to educate and entertain a bit at the same time.

 

[Tazzieman]

My advice based on personal experience is to just lower your expectations to zero and fly close to the ground during the waiting period.
The vehicle will be delivered to you when it's in a safe roadworthy condition ; though it's very unlikely to be 100% perfect ,
You will however smile each time you drive past the suckers who drive Toyotas.