Are they really this bad? (Software, electrical gremlins...)

[Bluesurf]

The gremlin's are very real. Recently I'm getting tones from the dash without any lights or explanations. Very frustrating and aggravating. I wish INEOS could fix all this stuff.

 

[Commodore]

So my intended use is for overland trips/expeditions of up to a month or two, in Morocco/Africa, remote parts of Eastern Europe etc.

My wife and I need a vehicle that is comfortable to drive very long distances but also extremely dependable and capable off road.

I've owned several old Defenders before, and a couple of Land Cruisers, and am very capable mechanically. However, I'm not good with electrics and besides, any vehicle that either needs sophisticated diagnostic software and a laptop to fix, or worse, must be returned to a dealer to be fixed, is not something I'm willing to risk when stuck in the middle of the Sahara desert, or miles from anywhere in a remote area.

A modern defender has 3x the electronics so take that off the list and from person experience I wouldn’t call it reliable. Really you are left with a Land Cruiser. A 70 series isn’t going to offer the long range comfort you likely want. Maybe a 300 series with some mods to make it more off road capable. Of course it’s also a very complex truck. Buy a professional grade scanner so you can diagnose any issues yourself.

When you start digging into the nuts and bolts of the modern truck dilemma, you realize that the Grenadier is a good value prop. The two biggest issues are a closed off diagnostic system and sparse dealer support. Both of which I expect to be solved in time.

 

[Brandtnm]

I have 23000 ish miles and the only electrical issues I had was a defective ABS sensor that died in a river crossing. Everything works like it should, HVAC included…Y2K (we asked for a retro truck) service reminder software notwithstanding

 

[ryket]

So my intended use is for overland trips/expeditions of up to a month or two, in Morocco/Africa, remote parts of Eastern Europe etc.

My wife and I need a vehicle that is comfortable to drive very long distances but also extremely dependable and capable off road.

I've owned several old Defenders before, and a couple of Land Cruisers, and am very capable mechanically. However, I'm not good with electrics and besides, any vehicle that either needs sophisticated diagnostic software and a laptop to fix, or worse, must be returned to a dealer to be fixed, is not something I'm willing to risk when stuck in the middle of the Sahara desert, or miles from anywhere in a remote area.

Keep in mind that the software issues in that thread are just annoyances. Apart from the fuel gauge issue (which is stupid but not a big problem once you get used to it), none of those things are going to stop the car from moving. I've never noticed battery drain in mine but all modern cars will have "intelligent" charging programs and will leave electronic modules on when the door is open etc.

That doesn't mean the IG is the right vehicle for your trip, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor.

 

[C-Mack]

Maybe others have experienced this but yesterday I drove into town about 10 miles parked the Grenadier for about 1 hour. I came back out after running my errands started the vehicle and the righthand side of the center console display (radio, settings, off-road, etc…) did not boot the screen was blank.

I turned off vehicle waited for about 30 seconds then turned ignition back to the on position. I waited for center display to load and got the same result, the right side was still blank. I then held the mute button for several seconds with the ignition on and the screen rebooted this time everything loaded properly then I started the engine.

So yeah, the software is bit glitchy but I will say this is the first time I’ve had to manually reset the display screen. Since new, I’ve been in habit of turning the ignition on to allow the software to load fully before actually starting the engine. I followed that procedure yesterday but as you can see from above that process doesn’t guarantee you won’t have the occasional glitch.

 

[DoubleDoom]

The MY22/23 had a load of software issues. Pretty much like all new vehicles. Many were ironed out with MY23.5. MY24 had a new software fork. MY26 has another fork I believe.

An MY24 onwards shouldn't have many software issues. All I find with my MY24 is if you park up, turn the engine off but don't open the doors, wait a short while, e.g. have a drink if you then fire up the engine again, it gives an amber ESC message. However, if you follow the same routine but open the door and close it again before firing back up, then there is no fault.

A lot of people don't realise that most orange messages are information messages. Ineos went a bit over the top with information messages.

Early builds often had their information cluster lit up like a Christmas tree. However, later builds rarely see anything come on that shouldn't.

Again, like any new vehicle from any car make, the first year or two will have issues they deal with. So, you need to consider when it was built when looking at those messages. e.g. sunroof leaks or footwell leaks on earlier ones that don't happen on more recent ones.

Americans seem to complain about the handling but Europeans less so. I have driven MY23 and MY24, and the latter was much better than the former and MY26 is better still. However, there is a jokey theory that each one comes off the factory line with its own personality. Also be wary that US builds and software are actually different to Europeans. Our US friends had some issues specific to them.

In very simple terms, the engine and body are solid. The software has a few quirks (but again, the newer the build, the better). There are a few niggles, most of which can be solved, but no more or less than any other car out there.

 

[DirtBuddha]

The MY22/23 had a load of software issues. Pretty much like all new vehicles. Many were ironed out with MY23.5. MY24 had a new software fork. MY26 has another fork I believe.

An MY24 onwards shouldn't have many software issues. All I find with my MY24 is if you park up, turn the engine off but don't open the doors, wait a short while, e.g. have a drink if you then fire up the engine again, it gives an amber ESC message. However, if you follow the same routine but open the door and close it again before firing back up, then there is no fault.

A lot of people don't realise that most orange messages are information messages. Ineos went a bit over the top with information messages.

Early builds often had their information cluster lit up like a Christmas tree. However, later builds rarely see anything come on that shouldn't.

Again, like any new vehicle from any car make, the first year or two will have issues they deal with. So, you need to consider when it was built when looking at those messages. e.g. sunroof leaks or footwell leaks on earlier ones that don't happen on more recent ones.

Americans seem to complain about the handling but Europeans less so. I have driven MY23 and MY24, and the latter was much better than the former and MY26 is better still. However, there is a jokey theory that each one comes off the factory line with its own personality. Also be wary that US builds and software are actually different to Europeans. Our US friends had some issues specific to them.

In very simple terms, the engine and body are solid. The software has a few quirks (but again, the newer the build, the better). There are a few niggles, most of which can be solved, but no more or less than any other car out there.

Interesting… i’ve read that people have had a lot of problems getting software updates for the earlier versions… Why on earth is that not possible?

 

[DoubleDoom]

Interesting… i’ve read that people have had a lot of problems getting software updates for the earlier versions… Why on earth is that not possible?

The earlier versions hit a development dead end due to new hardware. They fixed an awful lot in the earlier software, but you have to get it done at the dealer.

 

[Logsplitter]

I still genuinely like my Grenadier, but for balance I think it’s fair to share my ownership experience so far. These are the issues I’ve had, all fixed under warranty and in no particular order.

• Rear hub seal leak

• Diff input seal leaks

• Three power-steering-related recoveries (new gateway module + pump)

• Transfer box cables seized (4th recovery)

• EVAP filter clogged and replaced

• Prop shaft failure leading to further driveline/cooling repairs and eventually a new gearbox + more transfer box cables (5th recovery)

• Steering wheel module failure (no indicators, high beam, ESC, etc.)

• Winch control module failure

• Sway bar link hardware missing

• Auxiliary radiators repeatedly dropping from their mounts

• Failed windscreen washer

• Electric mirror motor failure

• Loose coolant pipes (self-fixed)

.Door seals coming unstuck

There are probably others I’ve forgotten.
.microphone for hands free is very poor.and no fix for that.

The latest one. Fuel sender/fuel level software fault. Fuel level indicator takes hours to register when full. Warning to say refuel soon even when full.

You expect the odd issue with a brand-new vehicle from a brand-new manufacturer. But the number and variety of faults have been far beyond what most people would tolerate.

I’m sharing this not in anger — I still enjoy the vehicle and see its potential — but it’s fair to say my patience has been well tested. I really hope future builds show more consistency, because the core product is something I genuinely like.

Build date 19/01/2023

Date of 1st registration 09/05/2023

No suspension lift pr steering modifications

 

[OkGo]

A modern defender has 3x the electronics so take that off the list and from person experience I wouldn’t call it reliable. Really you are left with a Land Cruiser. A 70 series isn’t going to offer the long range comfort you likely want. Maybe a 300 series with some mods to make it more off road capable. Of course it’s also a very complex truck. Buy a professional grade scanner so you can diagnose any issues yourself.

When you start digging into the nuts and bolts of the modern truck dilemma, you realize that the Grenadier is a good value prop. The two biggest issues are a closed off diagnostic system and sparse dealer support. Both of which I expect to be solved in time.

300 and the GR line were never sold in the UK. The 200 was only sold till 2015'ish. And the 70 baseline was never sold here (76/78/79) - you can find these imported etc, in very small numbers. I think if you are going to look at the land cruiser, a solid 200 series from 2014 in the UK is your target. Bad news, there are none to be had.

Which brings up the question of a Hilux or a L200 ...

What I would say to the OP really is to get into the Grenadier and drive it, if you are mechanically 5 on 10 or better - you will be ok with the driven distances and be able to look after the drive shaft, weird diff oil leaks and all the sort of things that can stop you.