Americas 2024 ADAS Issue and Work Around (USA)

[dreamalaska]

Hi Jeffrey, Thank you very much for contacting INEOS Automotive. I completely understand your perspective on finding the speed limit sound annoying and unnecessary. However, it was a decision made by our engineers to prioritize the safety of our clients. I will certainly forward your comments and opinions to the team. While I understand your concerns, I want to clarify that at the moment, there are no plans to remove or add a software update to modify this feature. I will send you a set of instructions to manually turn off the safety feature if you don't already have them. However, please remember that this will need to be done every time you turn on the vehicle. It's also important to note that turning off and using the vehicle without this safety feature activated is not recommended. I hope you understand the reasoning behind the engineer's and team's decision, but please know that your feedback has been received, read, and taken into consideration. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you need any further assistance. Thanks, Jackson INEOS Grenadier Customer Service

I’m shocked, but not surprised, at how tone deaf this response is. IMO Ratcliffe’s KISS vehicle has been co-opted by others who obviously believe they are smarter than him. Typical corporate managers.

The basic questions of product engineering:
“Is this component:
1. required by law/code
2. necessary for final function.
If these two are a “No”, then the final questions are:
3. is the customer needing/wanting it?
4. Is the customer willing to pay for it?”

I would surmise that 1, 2 and 3 are a no. It’s unfortunate no one has a say in #4.

 

[S52]

If you guys think the current iteration of ADAS is bad... then just wait and see what our overlords have in store for us!

Scary stuff! And the vast majority of the populace is none the wiser. I was car shopping fro my mother 6 months ago and specifically asked dealership salesmen about the implementation of these systems in their upcoming vehicles (Mercedes, Audi, BMW, LR) and they looked at me with blank stares having no Idea what I was talking about.

 

[[ Adam ]]

I’m shocked, but not surprised, at how tone deaf this response is. IMO Ratcliffe’s KISS vehicle has been co-opted by others who obviously believe they are smarter than he is. Typical corporate managers.

The basic questions of product engineering:
“Is this component:
1. required by law/code
2. necessary for final function.
If these two are a “No”, then the final questions are:
3. is the customer needing/wanting it?
4. Is the customer willing to pay for it?”

I would surmise that 1, 2 and 3 are a no. It’s unfortunate no one has a say in #4.

There are other influences at play. I personally believe the ADAS functionality is included in order to strengthen their rating with the IIHS. I'm not sure why, but there must be some benefits.

Advanced driver assistance

Information from IIHS-HLDI on advanced driver assistance systems, including crash avoidance technologies and automation

www.iihs.org

 

[mlagren23]

2024 ADAS (its for your safety...but!) Yeah can't speak for Ineos but reason says they are just not going to get rid of any of the ADAS functions as they are for your safety as they have clearly stated but here is what you can do! Ineos can change the insane electric shock buzzer warning that goes off on the overspeed. INEOS please, por favor, I (we) beg of you to change the tone. This you can legally do. Make it a kind warm the heart Star Trekish warning sound that does not give us old guys a heart attack! All in favor say Eye Eye Captain!

 

[[ Adam ]]

If you guys think the current iteration of ADAS is bad... then just wait and see what our overlords have in store for us!

Scary stuff! And the vast majority of the populace is none the wiser. I was car shopping fro my mother 6 months ago and specifically asked dealership salesmen about the implementation of these systems in their upcoming vehicles (Mercedes, Audi, BMW, LR) and they looked at me with blank stares having no Idea what I was talking about.

There is nothing in the legislation which mandates a remote controlled kill switch, nor is there any provision that the data be shared with the federal government.

I don't love it, nor do I want it, but the claims of a kill switch have been debunked by USA Today, AP & PolitiFact amongst others.

Furthermore, why you would expect some schlub at a local dealership to have any idea how a car manufacturer is going to implement requirements in legislation that doesn't take effect until 2027 is beyond me.

 

[FlyersFan76]

If you guys think the current iteration of ADAS is bad... then just wait and see what our overlords have in store for us!

Scary stuff! And the vast majority of the populace is none the wiser. I was car shopping fro my mother 6 months ago and specifically asked dealership salesmen about the implementation of these systems in their upcoming vehicles (Mercedes, Audi, BMW, LR) and they looked at me with blank stares having no Idea what I was talking about.

Those salespeople will quickly learn about it.

Although car manufactures implement these systems differently. Some seats vibrate, some steering wheels vibrate or light up. Some do both. A vibrating seat is easier to deal with without an ear popping gong though.

 

[Tergosa]

What if everyone asked Carista and their OBD2 scanner / app to include the Grenadier?

Carista

carista.com

I used it on my Toyota Tundra to eliminate seat belt and the fake engine noise. Really hope a fix like this becomes available.

 

[dreamalaska]

What if everyone asked Carista and their OBD2 scanner / app to include the Grenadier?

Carista

carista.com

I used it on my Toyota Tundra to eliminate seat belt and the fake engine noise. Really hope a fix like this becomes available.

Or Carly systems at mycarly.com
I use their OBDII module and app because of the ease of use. It’s a German company that has quite robust control interaction with the OEM computers. Unfortunately Ineos isn’t part of their offerings, yet.

 

[S52]

There is nothing in the legislation which mandates a remote controlled kill switch, nor is there any provision that the data be shared with the federal government.

I don't love it, nor do I want it, but the claims of a kill switch have been debunked by USA Today, AP & PolitiFact amongst others.

Furthermore, why you would expect some schlub at a local dealership to have any idea how a car manufacturer is going to implement requirements in legislation that doesn't take effect until 2027 is beyond me.

I never said anything about a "remote kill switch" but you are correct the legislation doesn't use the term kill switch. It states:

a system that—can—
(i) passively monitor the performance of a driver
of a motor vehicle to accurately identify whether that driver may be impaired; and
(ii) prevent or limit motor vehicle operation if an impairment is detected;

Public Law 117-58

Call it whatever term you wish to use but it sure sounds like they are pushing for technology to prevent citizens from using their vehicles based solely on inputs from camera systems and sensors (which given how buggy and inaccurate ADAS seems to be) is not tech I want installed on any vehicle I own. The scenarios are countless in which this kind of overreach could prove detrimental to a driver and their passengers.

I also don't expect a dealership "schlub" to know exactly how a manufacturer may implement such technology in future model years- but the fact that any of this was even news to them shows how "buried" this legislation was in the infrastructure bill. The majority of the population that are not an automotive enthusiast will be blindsided in 2026 or 2027 whenever this gets rolled out across all the manufacturers. I have already gotten some friends and family to squeeze the trigger on a new vehicle purchase over the past year in anticipation of this becoming the norm. I have yet to meet anybody who is ok with any of this garbage being forced on us.

I can promise you that if I decide to take delivery of my IG order this fall (still on the fence because of the ADAS) it will for sure be the last new vehicle I ever purchase or own. I'll gladly keep my pre-2025 vehicles running for my lifetime.

 

[TanisIndependentTraders]

yawn. lets blame brandon and give clicks to a clickwhore uuutuber. And you better not google what insurance companies, manufacturers, and their third party designees do with "your data"

 

[[ Adam ]]

I never said anything about a "remote kill switch" but you are correct the legislation doesn't use the term kill switch. It states:

a system that—can—
(i) passively monitor the performance of a driver
of a motor vehicle to accurately identify whether that driver may be impaired; and
(ii) prevent or limit motor vehicle operation if an impairment is detected;

Public Law 117-58

Call it whatever term you wish to use but it sure sounds like they are pushing for technology to prevent citizens from using their vehicles based solely on inputs from camera systems and sensors (which given how buggy and inaccurate ADAS seems to be) is not tech I want installed on any vehicle I own. The scenarios are countless in which this kind of overreach could prove detrimental to a driver and their passengers.

I also don't expect a dealership "schlub" to know exactly how a manufacturer may implement such technology in future model years- but the fact that any of this was even news to them shows how "buried" this legislation was in the infrastructure bill. The majority of the population that are not an automotive enthusiast will be blindsided in 2026 or 2027 whenever this gets rolled out across all the manufacturers. I have already gotten some friends and family to squeeze the trigger on a new vehicle purchase over the past year in anticipation of this becoming the norm. I have yet to meet anybody who is ok with any of this garbage being forced on us.

I can promise you that if I decide to take delivery of my IG order this fall (still on the fence because of the ADAS) it will for sure be the last new vehicle I ever purchase or own. I'll gladly keep my pre-2025 vehicles running for my lifetime.

 

[grnamin]

Spoke to my alarm installer. He said he uses either Forscan or MyCarly to disable certain vehicle features. Maybe we can engage either company to try and disable ADAS. He also suggested a plug-in module that runs a macro that disables ADAS automatically.

 

[anand]

Spoke to my alarm installer. He said he uses either Forscan or MyCarly to disable certain vehicle features. Maybe we can engage either company to try and disable ADAS. He also suggested a plug-in module that runs a macro that disables ADAS automatically.

Interesting... ForScan is Ford specific, Carly works on a number of brands however

 

[stickshifter]

As @S52 wrote, the law is clear. It derives from the The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, passed by the Biden administration. Below is a screen shot from the law which cleared the House of Representatives on Jan 3, 2021, and became law on November 15, 2021.

The official designation of the law is: PUBLIC LAW 117–58—NOV. 15, 2021, and you can find the full text here:

https://www.congress.gov/117/plaws/publ58/PLAW-117publ58.pdf

Screenshot from the actual text of the law:



The false notion that fact-checkers have rejected the concept of a "kill switch" is focused on the use of the term "kill switch" which - as is clear - does not appear in the legislation. But the term "kill switch" is just meant to grab attention. The key concept - being referred to as a "kill switch" is - to quote the actual law: "prevent or limit motor vehicle operation if an impairment is detected" - as accurately quoted by @S52 in post #629.

So the law doesn't use the term "kill switch" - is there a better term to describe "prevent or limit motor vehicle operation"?

 

[LC0013]

If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck it's a duck....

 

[Jackattack13]

Carista responded to my email stating the Grenadier is NOT on their road map for products. Bummer.

Maybe Carli?

 

[gtank]

Carista responded to my email stating the Grenadier is NOT on their road map for products. Bummer.

Maybe Carli?

I previously asked BimmerCode and they said no as well.

 

[Jackattack13]

Might not be a big enough draw to justify the software engineering needed to bring something to market.

 

[Zak Smith]

Might not be a big enough draw to justify the software engineering needed to bring something to market.

I wonder what amount of $ invested would be required for these guys to take a look. If they're trying to make back 500 engineering hours by selling $89.90 units, they need a lot of units. If a few people are willing to clunk down a larger chunk, I bet we could make it up. If I could have a box that saved all my presets and fixed the way some other features worked, I'd shell out a grand easily.

 

[Tergosa]

Carista responded to my email stating the Grenadier is NOT on their road map for products. Bummer.

Maybe Carli?

I actually asked as well and same answer.