Winch or not ?

Disco Dave

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
I still own a tirfor, with 20m of steel
cable. After a few trips, it became a huge 25kg pain in the butt. So I fitted an electric winch, which is always there. Never used the tirfor for extraction, luckily enough. If the red winch only has 15m of synthetic rope, well that is what an extension strap is for - always have one of those on board, they don’t weigh much.
Batteries run winches, alternators charge batteries. Stop overthinking it. A winch is not going to drain your battery, unless you are in deep shit. So you may have to give everything a rest for 15 min for the batteries to recoup.
An electric winch (coupled with extraction kit) is bloody good insurance. However, a tirfor is better than nothing.
 

DCPU

Active Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Don't overthink it... isn't that how accidents happen?

What length is your extension strap(?) and how do you choke it down for pulls less than it's deployed length but greater than a 15m winch cable?

Having said that, I do have a Warm M8000 on a different vehicle. It runs off the starter battery (Optima Red Top, 50Ah, 815 CCA), no 2nd battery fitted. Works a treat, but it's not as good as my Tirfor. 😝
 
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Disco Dave

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Don't overthink it... isn't that how accidents happen?

What length is your extension strap(?) and how do you choke it down for pulls less than it's deployed length but greater than a 15m winch cable?
Overthinking is what some people do on forums. They “what if“ everything to death, won’t be happy till everyone is running 3 batteries and an 8t winch with a 30m rope.

My extension strap is 20m, managing it (or even 2) is not rocket science. If you cannot work this basic stuff out on the track, better take somebody with you that can.
 

DCPU

Active Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Overthinking is what some people do on forums. They “what if“ everything to death, won’t be happy till everyone is running 3 batteries and an 8t winch with a 30m rope.

My extension strap is 20m, managing it (or even 2) is not rocket science. If you cannot work this basic stuff out on the track, better take somebody with you that can.
Punchy ~ but not answering the basic question...

3 batteries and a 8t winch... I'm advocating a Tirfor. 🤣
 

Sandman

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Batteries run winches, alternators charge batteries. Stop overthinking it.
Sorry for getting technical, but this is only the case if you have to run your winch, without your engine running. Where possible, you should be running your engine whilst using the winch. The winch is powered by a combination of the alternator’s maximum current output and the remainder coming from the batteries.
 

DenisM

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
I have an electric winch that I purchased 6 yrs ago... still in the plastic bag in the original carton (sitting in a cupboard in my study (shh! 🤫 ) I freely admit it to be an impulse buy with grand plans afoot...(not!)
It neatly fits the category of a "solution seeking a problem"
On that basis, and being a hoarder because "it might just come in handy", the option on the IG of a front tow plate has provided a perfect answer. I will buy a tow-hitch cradle for said winch and then, with the IG fitted with the optional heavy duty wiring, will have the ability to use the winch front and rear without the requirement to have it permanently installed! Well that's the plan....😉
 

DCPU

Active Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Also not sure whether Ineos have a plan to develop a different winch setup:
 

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emax

Prolific Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Remember that there are two different front bumpers: steel and plastic. This might have caused a different construction of the supporting structure behind the bumper. They can not just cover a steel structure with a plastic cover just to match the regulations in Europe.

So I am afraid, that there will be some restrictions in terms of "availability in europe". I mean: if they design a new winch, it could be just for steel-bumper equipped cars.

The bad feeling is "why"? Is there a flaw in the existing one? Or is it too complicated to maintain/repair?

We'll see.

PS: Arkaig was faster.
 

emax

Prolific Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
I've opened a ticket at Ineos with the following questions:
  1. Can the removable winch be mounted front and rear even if the car is equipped with plastic bumpers?
  2. What is the weight of the removable winch?
  3. What is the weight of the integrated winch?
The answers according to the guy at the phone (he was very young and eagerly tried to do his best):
  1. Yes. Both, front and rear mounting is possible even with plastic bumper equipped cars.
  2. pending
  3. pending
The database which he queried didn't say anything about the weights, so these answers are pending. I'll forward them here.
 

Spjnr

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Founding Guard
If money wasn't a factor, I'd spec the winch.

But Its a very expensive option, and and im 99% sure ill be fitting an ARB bumper (or similar) down the line, and will just drop in a winch when i do.

IMHO a winch is an essential item if your doing any solo travelling off-road. even if your not doing technical trails, there are so many potential situations that can crop up where you'll need one. Moving trees, self recovery, helping locals are all things I've done in the past, and you never know when its going to happen
 

Spjnr

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Founding Guard
Yeah, not sure about that. Snatch straps, shackles, ladders, shovel yes. I guess it’s a question of whether one is crawling or overlanding.
winches are so much more controlled than snatch traps.

maybe 'essential' is a bit strong, but I've got into a good few situations where a winch saved me.

Really depends on where your going, but for those who like to do some "interesting" tracks when away, id say its a no brainer
 

CountyV8

Contributor
I've opened a ticket at Ineos with the following questions:
  1. Can the removable winch be mounted front and rear even if the car is equipped with plastic bumpers?
  2. What is the weight of the removable winch?
  3. What is the weight of the integrated winch?
The answers according to the guy at the phone (he was very young and eagerly tried to do his best):
  1. Yes. Both, front and rear mounting is possible even with plastic bumper equipped cars.
  2. pending
  3. pending
The database which he queried didn't say anything about the weights, so these answers are pending. I'll forward them here.
Not a problem and I fully understand that you want to know what you are buying!

He winch that RED Winches are supplying is a bespoke product for INEOS that has been engineered to meet the challenges that the space envelope available for an integrated winch caused our design team while making use of many of the features that you would expect to see from a RED Winch.

The Grenadier winch has a pulling capacity of 5,500kg with an internal mechanical brake and a rotating manual freespool lever that is accessed from the front of the vehicle.

The rope fitted is 15m of 11mm UHMWPE with a MBS of 11,700kg. The rope is supplied with a soft loop designed to take one of our S-RING-50’s for closed loop winching.

No load average line speed is 3m/min.

The winch is fitted with our high performance 12v Ox motor.

Operation of the winch is with a wireless remote.

The winch body is CNC machined form solid billet aluminium and the drum is running in bearings with a lip seal to protect the bearings from the elements.

I hope this helps. Do let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Regards,


Hope this helps MAX
 

emax

Prolific Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Quite elaborated, thank you.

What about the weight, any infos?
 

Michael H.

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
winches are so much more controlled than snatch traps.

maybe 'essential' is a bit strong, but I've got into a good few situations where a winch saved me.

Really depends on where your going, but for those who like to do some "interesting" tracks when away, id say its a no brainer
I agree that winching is generally safer than snatching. Here in Australia, our 4WD training courses teach the Hierarchy of Recovery, which has snatching as the last resort (most dangerous) option.
 

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