What an I missing... or is Ineos missing something???

[HereinDaRockies]

So I think i'm like a lot of folks on this forum where i have some history/experience with old defenders, some nostalgia for them.
I stalked and studied Ineos as the grenadier was talked about and later brought into production.
I bided my time till they got a couple model years production under their belts and then i pulled the trigger.
I bought a '24 Trialmaster a few months ago, I'm told by the dealer that my number 20,414 is the 3rd model year but the 5th generation.
After several months I kinda like it, I like the overall design and stature and its uniqueness. love the seats.
Wonderful idea, incredibly poor execution.
What do I hate... the turning radius is probably the worse.. ok that or the fact that it leaks in the rain.
Literally it turns worse than any vehicle in my pretty full 12 car garage.. its bad enough that it hurts it as an off road vehicle... nature has very few straight lines and this SUV likes straight lines.
The range... 250 miles!, just about 1/2 of most of my other vehicles, I get that in england and maybe europe but USA, canada.. australia.
The next worse thing i have is the Jeep at about 375 range, my Ram gets just over 500. Most days I drive the gren is a fill it up day.
Or how about the ADAS, how much engineering did it take to create the most annoying and intrusive system on the market that offers absolutely no driver assistance.
They had no hesitation to buy other car company components... why not buy toyotas adas? my mid level Tacoma and wifes lexus both have one with no beeps and clicks yet it practically drives the car for you.
And overall besides being among my newest vehicles it's a dealer garage queen, I think in the 3+ months I've had it's been in for tweaks and warranty work 5 times.
My 16 year old wrangler with 150k miles is more nimble and capable off road, my wife says my Ram diesel with 3 times the towing capacity is a more comfortable ride.
With all that it's hardly a kit or bargain fixer upper, Mine was $90,000. Except for my S-Class Mercedes the most expensive car in my garage.

After all that i found myself talking to the sales guy while at the dealer for yet another warranty repair about when the order books were open for the '26 models.
And if they've gotten their quality control and driver experience act any more together in '26 than they had in '24.

I am probably going to trade in my '24 trialmaster, I just don't think its a sustainable long term vehicle. I'm on the fence whether i get a new (hopefully) improved '26 grenadier or a '26 Bronco raptor with all the boxes checked.

Thoughts.. did I miss something?

Bro you can’t simply buy some other company’s ADAS. The whole system calibrates to a specific vehicle ( camera height, camera type etc) and requires a lot of investment in testing and certification.

Ineos simply has zero expertise and limited budget for this feature

 

[landmannnn]

Have you driven a solid-front-axle G-wagen on the street? Besides raw acceleration and sound, it is an abomination.

And add that 90k would probably only buy you half of that G Wagen

 

[Clark Kent]

So I think i'm like a lot of folks on this forum where i have some history/experience with old defenders, some nostalgia for them.
I stalked and studied Ineos as the grenadier was talked about and later brought into production.
I bided my time till they got a couple model years production under their belts and then i pulled the trigger.
I bought a '24 Trialmaster a few months ago, I'm told by the dealer that my number 20,414 is the 3rd model year but the 5th generation.
After several months I kinda like it, I like the overall design and stature and its uniqueness. love the seats.
Wonderful idea, incredibly poor execution.
What do I hate... the turning radius is probably the worse.. ok that or the fact that it leaks in the rain.
Literally it turns worse than any vehicle in my pretty full 12 car garage.. its bad enough that it hurts it as an off road vehicle... nature has very few straight lines and this SUV likes straight lines.
The range... 250 miles!, just about 1/2 of most of my other vehicles, I get that in england and maybe europe but USA, canada.. australia.
The next worse thing i have is the Jeep at about 375 range, my Ram gets just over 500. Most days I drive the gren is a fill it up day.
Or how about the ADAS, how much engineering did it take to create the most annoying and intrusive system on the market that offers absolutely no driver assistance.
They had no hesitation to buy other car company components... why not buy toyotas adas? my mid level Tacoma and wifes lexus both have one with no beeps and clicks yet it practically drives the car for you.
And overall besides being among my newest vehicles it's a dealer garage queen, I think in the 3+ months I've had it's been in for tweaks and warranty work 5 times.
My 16 year old wrangler with 150k miles is more nimble and capable off road, my wife says my Ram diesel with 3 times the towing capacity is a more comfortable ride.
With all that it's hardly a kit or bargain fixer upper, Mine was $90,000. Except for my S-Class Mercedes the most expensive car in my garage.

After all that i found myself talking to the sales guy while at the dealer for yet another warranty repair about when the order books were open for the '26 models.
And if they've gotten their quality control and driver experience act any more together in '26 than they had in '24.

I am probably going to trade in my '24 trialmaster, I just don't think its a sustainable long term vehicle. I'm on the fence whether i get a new (hopefully) improved '26 grenadier or a '26 Bronco raptor with all the boxes checked.

Thoughts.. did I miss something?

I don't think you missed much. Perhaps you anticipated more evolution than has been delivered in a relatively short time.

Your analysis reminds me of my time on the F35 Lightning II aircraft development program, now 20 years ago (!!). The managing DoD agency, known as the Joint Program Office (JPO), referred to the F35 as a 'purple solution'. It wasn't Navy white, Marine khaki or Air Force blue. JPO first had to get rid of the service tribalism where each service didn't want to accept the compromise of an aircraft built to do stuff they had no specific use for. It wasn't intended as a 100% replacement for F14, F15, F16, F/A-18, Harrier/AV-8B, Tornado, et al. It was going to be a compromise of most of the common mission capabilities of those aircraft types rolled into a single platform split across three branched variants. The F35 is far from perfect, many say it's too compromised, but it's a handy aircraft that does many things well and is a lot cheaper and easier to manage as a single aircraft type versus multiple fleets of service and mission-oriented aircraft that can do one or two things well. Like a 12-car garage

Enter the Grenadier:
There are better daily drives...
There are better freeway cruisers...
There are better rock crawlers...
There are better load haulers...
There are better mall crawlers...
There are better city cars...

It's not a Ford, Toyota, RAM or Chev with their rusted on but often misplaced loyalties.

In the present market you'll struggle to find another single vehicle that can do all of those things as well as the Grenadier - if you are willing to accept there are inevitable compromises (and a few design and build missteps). Deciding if a Grenadier is good for you comes down to how you want to use it and how you prioritise the capabilities. If a prospective buyer ran down my list above and weighted how they expect to use their vehicle some would definitely shop elsewhere. And that's my response to the common question: "Is it any good?" For my needs, it's great. For your needs I don't know. Hasten slowly.

I'm an early adopter of a 3/2023 build with VIN #1886. The first time I drove it was on delivery day. No ADAS

 

[bigleonski]

I don't think you missed much. Perhaps you anticipated more evolution than has been delivered in a relatively short time.

Your analysis reminds me of my time on the F35 Lightning II aircraft development program, now 20 years ago (!!). The managing DoD agency, known as the Joint Program Office (JPO), referred to the F35 as a 'purple solution'. It wasn't Navy white, Marine khaki or Air Force blue. JPO first had to get rid of the service tribalism where each service didn't want to accept the compromise of an aircraft built to do stuff they had no specific use for. It wasn't intended as a 100% replacement for F14, F15, F16, F/A-18, Harrier/AV-8B, Tornado, et al. It was going to be a compromise of most of the common mission capabilities of those aircraft types rolled into a single platform split across three branched variants. The F35 is far from perfect, many say it's too compromised, but it's a handy aircraft that does many things well and is a lot cheaper and easier to manage as a single aircraft type versus multiple fleets of service and mission-oriented aircraft that can do one or two things well. Like a 12-car garage

Enter the Grenadier:
There are better daily drives...
There are better freeway cruisers...
There are better rock crawlers...
There are better load haulers...
There are better mall crawlers...
There are better city cars...

It's not a Ford, Toyota, RAM or Chev with their rusted on but often misplaced loyalties.

In the present market you'll struggle to find another single vehicle that can do all of those things as well as the Grenadier - if you are willing to accept there are inevitable compromises (and a few design and build missteps). Deciding if a Grenadier is good for you comes down to how you want to use it and how you prioritise the capabilities. If a prospective buyer ran down my list above and weighted how they expect to use their vehicle some would definitely shop elsewhere. And that's my response to the common question: "Is it any good?" For my needs, it's great. For your needs I don't know. Hasten slowly.

I'm an early adopter of a 3/2023 build with VIN #1886. The first time I drove it was on delivery day. No ADAS

Well said.
A mate of mine recently drove my grenny and was keen as mustard. But at the end of the day, and based on his use requirements, the fact both he and his wife would drive it equally and the fsct it would only get off the bitumen occasionally, I recommended he but his other choice (250 Prado. He did, and he loves it. He might have loved the grenny, but my gut told me he’d be happier with the Yota.

 

[Zimm]

Thoughts.. did I miss something?

yes you missed something. What you missed was “search”, and 2 years of discussion available free prior to your purchase. Your post should be dated Dec 2023.

 

[INEOS OG]

So I think i'm like a lot of folks on this forum where i have some history/experience with old defenders, some nostalgia for them.
I stalked and studied Ineos as the grenadier was talked about and later brought into production.
I bided my time till they got a couple model years production under their belts and then i pulled the trigger.
I bought a '24 Trialmaster a few months ago, I'm told by the dealer that my number 20,414 is the 3rd model year but the 5th generation.
After several months I kinda like it, I like the overall design and stature and its uniqueness. love the seats.
Wonderful idea, incredibly poor execution.
What do I hate... the turning radius is probably the worse.. ok that or the fact that it leaks in the rain.
Literally it turns worse than any vehicle in my pretty full 12 car garage.. its bad enough that it hurts it as an off road vehicle... nature has very few straight lines and this SUV likes straight lines.
The range... 250 miles!, just about 1/2 of most of my other vehicles, I get that in england and maybe europe but USA, canada.. australia.
The next worse thing i have is the Jeep at about 375 range, my Ram gets just over 500. Most days I drive the gren is a fill it up day.
Or how about the ADAS, how much engineering did it take to create the most annoying and intrusive system on the market that offers absolutely no driver assistance.
They had no hesitation to buy other car company components... why not buy toyotas adas? my mid level Tacoma and wifes lexus both have one with no beeps and clicks yet it practically drives the car for you.
And overall besides being among my newest vehicles it's a dealer garage queen, I think in the 3+ months I've had it's been in for tweaks and warranty work 5 times.
My 16 year old wrangler with 150k miles is more nimble and capable off road, my wife says my Ram diesel with 3 times the towing capacity is a more comfortable ride.
With all that it's hardly a kit or bargain fixer upper, Mine was $90,000. Except for my S-Class Mercedes the most expensive car in my garage.

After all that i found myself talking to the sales guy while at the dealer for yet another warranty repair about when the order books were open for the '26 models.
And if they've gotten their quality control and driver experience act any more together in '26 than they had in '24.

I am probably going to trade in my '24 trialmaster, I just don't think its a sustainable long term vehicle. I'm on the fence whether i get a new (hopefully) improved '26 grenadier or a '26 Bronco raptor with all the boxes checked.

Thoughts.. did I miss something?

No disrespect my friend, but if I had to explain it to you, you couldn't understand.

Best of luck with the Bronco Raptor.

 

[Sean326]

yes you missed something. What you missed was “search”, and 2 years of discussion available free prior to your purchase. Your post should be dated Dec 2023.

No I think i covered it here:
"I bided my time till they got a couple model years production under their belts and then i pulled the trigger."
I watched the brand, hung out on all the boards and pages, test drove it etc...
Most of the issues from the first couple years they did address to some level through what my dealer called "5 generations of changes over 3 model years".
It seemed with the massive number of warranty repairs and many modifications they were getting ahead of the worst "customer experience" issues.
Everything from the door locks not working through the safari windows leaking and many others seemed to have been addressed satisfactorily.
The real issue is if they can reach a critical mass of sales with the public to support the company as a mainstream ongoing car company after they sell all they can to defender nostalgists. If not and they fail we are stuck with a fairly delicate and failure prone vehicle and no manufacturer support.

 

[Sean326]

Bro you can’t simply buy some other company’s ADAS. The whole system calibrates to a specific vehicle ( camera height, camera type etc) and requires a lot of investment in testing and certification.

Ineos simply has zero expertise and limited budget for this feature

That may be true but it would seem that the range of sizes and shapes of (for example) Toyota and Lexus vehicles from compact sporty cars to small and large SUV's to small and large trucks they could make one fit a grenadier.
Would buying a state of the art proven system be costlier than the bad PR and lost sales of probably 1/2 of the public feedback being customer complaints having to do with some aspect of the ADAS system?

 

[Tom109]

No I think i covered it here:
"I bided my time till they got a couple model years production under their belts and then i pulled the trigger."

That’s the problem - there haven’t been a couple model years in production. Its basically one MY with running changes.

 

[Sean326]

And add that 90k would probably only buy you half of that G Wagen

Yes, you are right, but also my dealer had a factory Gren on his lot for $200k.
The AMG g-wagon is about $186.
It doesn't take too many boxes getting checked to hit $100 and you are solidly in the range of other expensive suv's like BMW, lexus and mercedes. that's who we need to compete with to keep our factory and dealer support alive .