Transfer Case, Loss Hi Gear

[Rok_Dr]

Thanks @samnt650, good pics.

Agreed @Clark Kent more thought or experimentation is required to determine the feasibility of it all.

Cheers
Steve

 

[NQ94]

Good photos. The port near the rear output flange looks to be oil out to the cooler. I could be wrong, looking at the casting the t/case may have a pump driven by the rear output and the return oil from cooler returns higher up the case lubricating the whole gear set. There was another post showing an Ineos diagram of the t/case and cooling lines and it didn't appear to have an external pump in the diagram.

 

[Clark Kent]

Pic 1 / img 7543 - You are correct. Left of pic is front of the truck.
It is possible to shift Hi Lo, Lock Unlock with engine off (we can do that w/ the shifter) That was something I couldn't achieve while under the truck. The Hi Lo & Lock Unlock lever requires force to move.

I think pull cord is easier help move the Lock Unlock lever. With the Hi Lo, its going to a challenge moving it to the Hi position

A follow up for those watching on.

I spent some time this past week laying under my vehicle trying to come up with a simple and repeatable method to access the high - low range lever on top of the transfer case so it can be manually shifted in the event of a cable separation or failure off-road - as was @samnt650's experience in this thread. It's a no from me.

It's too difficult to get access between the transfer case and the heat shields under the body to get something in there to apply enough force to shift the lever. This is in consideration of the dexterity required in a tight space surrounded by hot (probably) and sharp surfaces. I mean, it's clearly do-able and @samnt650 has some great skills likely fuelled by his desperation to get home, but it's not something that can be captured in a do-it-this-way procedure.

The best takeaway from this investigation is the knowledge and pics of where the high-low lever is located. Run your hand up the back right side of the transfer case. Lay your hand flat and feel forwards across the housing and you'll start to feel the lever and cable bracket.
If you find yourself in the same situation you may be able to sort something out, otherwise drive out in low range to a recovery spot.

 

[Tazzieman]

The 2nd pic has psychedelic vibes that confuse me!

 

[samnt650]

The 2nd pic has psychedelic vibes that confuse me!

the picture disappeared from your post

 

[Clark Kent]

the picture disappeared from your post

I think @Tazzieman is referring to my 2nd pic with the 60's vibe coming off the heat shield. It probably reminds of his University days. Well, the ones he can remember
This pic...

 

[Blackwolf]

I was thinking last night about the H-(N)-L mechanism in the transfer box after reading the thread about the drowned Grenadier and in particular the difficulty of recovering an inoperable vehicle stuck in water where the underside and hence the "neutral bolt" cannot be accessed. It seems to me that the neutral bolt is probably a form of selector lock since there is no neutral detent on the box. If you move the lever in the cab to mid position and hold it there, I think the vehicle will roll. I haven't specifically tried this but when I first tried shifting from high to low and back and experienced the typical incredibly stiff mechanism, I did at one point have the vehicle rolling down a slight hill to try to get the high range to mesh back in, but what I don't know is whether it was the fact that the transfer box was in a neutral position or the main box was in neutral that allowed this.

It seems possible to me that emergency recovery of a non-running vehicle (for example from water) should be possible if the H/L lever is held in mid position without the need to screw in the lock bolt.

Any thoughts? Has anyone tried this?

The operating levers on the box look to be horrendously inaccessible in the vehicle! The photos in this thread are great and very informative.

 

[255/85]

I was thinking last night about the H-(N)-L mechanism in the transfer box after reading the thread about the drowned Grenadier and in particular the difficulty of recovering an inoperable vehicle stuck in water where the underside and hence the "neutral bolt" cannot be accessed. It seems to me that the neutral bolt is probably a form of selector lock since there is no neutral detent on the box. If you move the lever in the cab to mid position and hold it there, I think the vehicle will roll. I haven't specifically tried this but when I first tried shifting from high to low and back and experienced the typical incredibly stiff mechanism, I did at one point have the vehicle rolling down a slight hill to try to get the high range to mesh back in, but what I don't know is whether it was the fact that the transfer box was in a neutral position or the main box was in neutral that allowed this.

It seems possible to me that emergency recovery of a non-running vehicle (for example from water) should be possible if the H/L lever is held in mid position without the need to screw in the lock bolt.

Any thoughts? Has anyone tried this?

The operating levers on the box look to be horrendously inaccessible in the vehicle! The photos in this thread are great and very informative.

I think you're appointing yourself official guinea pig.

There are cg videos of the inner workings of the transfer box. Thee didn't seem to be a lot of room inside for selectors/collars to be in undedicated positions.

 

[samnt650]

I was thinking last night about the H-(N)-L mechanism in the transfer box after reading the thread about the drowned Grenadier and in particular the difficulty of recovering an inoperable vehicle stuck in water where the underside and hence the "neutral bolt" cannot be accessed. It seems to me that the neutral bolt is probably a form of selector lock since there is no neutral detent on the box. If you move the lever in the cab to mid position and hold it there, I think the vehicle will roll. I haven't specifically tried this but when I first tried shifting from high to low and back and experienced the typical incredibly stiff mechanism, I did at one point have the vehicle rolling down a slight hill to try to get the high range to mesh back in, but what I don't know is whether it was the fact that the transfer box was in a neutral position or the main box was in neutral that allowed this.

It seems possible to me that emergency recovery of a non-running vehicle (for example from water) should be possible if the H/L lever is held in mid position without the need to screw in the lock bolt.

Any thoughts? Has anyone tried this?

The operating levers on the box look to be horrendously inaccessible in the vehicle! The photos in this thread are great and very informative.

You are correct... if you manage to keep the transfer shifter "in between" you will reach the "neutral position" Keep in mind the gears are not 100% separated and you'll hear gear hitting each other. At least you can move the vehicle while in water. You will need someone to hold the shifter in the position to maintain this neutral position.

 

[Blackwolf]

So what does the "neutral screw" actually do? Does it simply lock the selector in the mid position, or does it do any other clever stuff?

 

[samnt650]

So what does the "neutral screw" actually do? Does it simply lock the selector in the mid position, or does it do any other clever stuff?

The bolt (screw) is on the transfer case. it separates the transfer case input from the front & rear shafts. I think this is the biggest oversight design of the IG, we cannot put the truck in neutral without power and engineering not possible create an aftermarket option...

 

[Clark Kent]

The bolt (screw) is on the transfer case. it separates the transfer case input from the front & rear shafts. I think this is the biggest oversight design of the IG, we cannot put the truck in neutral without power and engineering not possible create an aftermarket option...

Don't forget the neutral lever on the left side of the transmission. That unlocks the parking pawl so the vehicle can be moved without electrical power. It's the only option on BMW xDrive vehicles that also have a transfer case. LR Discos with the ZF trans use the same system but conveniently provide a pull cable underneath the centre console.

 

[ADVAW8S]

In the new defender that uses the ZF transmission had in early model a cable you could pull from the engine bay. By model year 2022 it was removed.

 

[Logsplitter]

Check this screen shot. Would this signify that the transfer box has been changed on later iterations of the Grenadier

 

[Krabby]

Weren’t early boxes something like “A” and then some were swapped for updated “B” versions?

 

[Logsplitter]

Weren’t early boxes something like “A” and then some were swapped for updated “B” versions?

No idea. I missed that one. Seems like different transfer boxes for petrol and diesel.

 

[Clark Kent]

No idea. I missed that one. Seems like different transfer boxes for petrol and diesel.

In 2023 there was a batch of transfer cases swapped out on low VIN vehicles under a service campaign that only applied to specific installed serial numbers. There was some discussion in this thread.

I never got to the bottom of why. I heard from an IA rep that it was due to an assembly shimming error and from another source that it was due to a gear manufacturing error with a misdrilled lubrication gallery. Either way, a batch of -A spec cases were swapped out for a -B spec case as marked on the data plate. The -B cases pre-date the service campaign so .
This is my transfer case plate. Pic was taken on August 1st, 2023 after my transfer case was replaced two days after delivery.

 

[Eric]

Weren’t early boxes something like “A” and then some were swapped for updated “B” versions?

That was my understanding

 

[scottg]

I'm going to ask a silly question. Let's say I'm in DC, because I live in this area, and I park somewhere, and DC decides they don't like where I parked and decide to tow my Grenadier. Would they know not to do that, or that it needs adult supervision, like needing the key in on mode, putting it in car wash mode, etc.? Even pulling my Grenadier onto a flatbed sounds like without proper setting up configuration of the vehicle it could do serious damage. I'm considering buying a 'boot' to put on my front wheel street side so it can be seen just so that doesn't happen. Might not get tickets then, that would be a plus!

 

[Eric]

I'm going to ask a silly question. Let's say I'm in DC, because I live in this area, and I park somewhere, and DC decides they don't like where I parked and decide to tow my Grenadier. Would they know not to do that, or that it needs adult supervision, like needing the key in on mode, putting it in car wash mode, etc.? Even pulling my Grenadier onto a flatbed sounds like without proper setting up configuration of the vehicle it could do serious damage. I'm considering buying a 'boot' to put on my front wheel street side so it can be seen just so that doesn't happen. Might not get tickets then, that would be a plus!

It would make an interesting law suit as to legal liability for any damages.