Top Grear BIG READS -Tough Mudder: will LR Defender owners welcome the new Ineos Grenadier? 19 OCT 2023

And yet, while the move upmarket may make it an ideal SUV for most people, there are still a select few who just can’t get onboard.
Some of those people might not want to get onboard, but others genuinely aren’t able to thanks to the price of entry (around £63,000 for a 110) and the treatment that their old school workhorses receive. So, what are all of these folk meant to do when their Defenders finally give up the ghost?

Well, that might just be where Ineos comes in. After trying and failing to buy the tooling for the old Defender, chemical magnate and extremely rich man Jim Ratcliffe decided that he would design and build his own take on the off-road icon. Amazing what you can do with a little bit of initiative and a net worth of £29bn, isn’t it?

Tough Mudder: will LR Defender owners welcome the new Ineos Grenadier?

www.topgear.com

 

[Tom109]

Money no object my choice would be
1. Grenadier
2. New Defender
3. Old Defender

Move the Old Defender to the top of the price list in North America.

 

[DaveB]

No the Grenadier doesn't crap all over the old Defender
lt's more of a dual purpose vehicle (than the old Defender) and better on road, but so it should be with a starting price of £65,000.

l've had five old Defenders, now have the new version. l've driven the Grenadier on and off road.

l think Grenadier is what Land Rover should have done with old Defender. But Land Rover will point to the runaway sales success of the new version and say that's what's important.

Money no object my choice would be
1. Grenadier
2. New Defender
3. Old Defender

l've moved on from the old model. But the new Defender doesn't crap all over the old one either.

65K is a small price compared to old Defender
That's about AUD$125K

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2015-land-rover-defender-adventure-manual-4x4-my16/SSE-AD-13524747/?Cr=13

 

[lightning]

Yes the prices over in the USA can be crazy !!

ln the U.K. you can get a pristine low mileage XS Station Wagon for £32,000 which is $39,000 equivalent

l've looked at this one today and it's as good as it gets, with a dealer warranty thrown in.

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Or this lovely low mileage TD5 XS Station Wagon for U.K. £25,000

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[AnD3rew]

It does take a while to calibrate to the new steering though, and journos present 2 problems for ineos there- they often dont spend long (ie a week or more), and they are looking to come up with things both positive and negative that will appeal to or interest their audience. The steering is always going to get a mention.

i think it will genuinely be a marmite aspect of the car once lots of people are coming to it via test driving both it and any other cars they are considering. Not because they have been following the project and are already invested like all of us so far. Personally I now love the steering, just being realistic about a grenadier neophyte’s likely reaction on first drive.

I also now rather like the steering, now that I have a couple of thousand kms on the clock, I never hated it, but it does take some time to adapt and feel really comfortable with it.

 

[AnD3rew]

Good to hear. I do know that many people picking up in sydney, where we are immediately onto narrow lanes in very hectic traffic, are having a common experience of concentrating pretty fully on the way home!
all fun and good memories though.

Yep

 

[Cheshire cat]

The Old Defender and New Defender got together to have a child and named it Grenadier. Who new I was going to be a father at 71. DaBull

DaBull
You haven’t asked anyone to take two very exact measurements from the sill to the ground on both the old Defender and the new one.

 

[AnD3rew]

Re: the question will Old Defender fans accept the Grenadier. We for fun I put a picture of my Grenadier next to a Defender on the Facebook version of AULRO, basically the longstanding Land Rover equivalent of this forum which I have been a member of for decades. And the reaction was decidedly divisive, s few hated the Grenadier with a passion, many semed to grudgingly accept that it was ok but not a Land Rover or specifically not a Defender. But there were also quite a number very supportive of it and saying it is the true successor to the old Defender.

 

[lightning]

l don't understand old model Defender owners not liking the Grenadier.
lt's pretty much an old Defender brought up to date, surely.

However
l can understand old model Defender owners not liking the new Defender.

 

[DaBull]

DaBull
You haven’t asked anyone to take two very exact measurements from the sill to the ground on both the old Defender and the new one.

Hi Cheshire Cat, My wife says I think I am a secret agent, however definitely not James Bond.
I am hoping my secret collaboration project comes to see the light of day and I can share it with everyone in the near future. Something I think many would like and desire....DaBull

 

[Sam]

Re: the question will Old Defender fans accept the Grenadier. [...] the reaction was decidedly divisive, a few hated the Grenadier with a passion, many seemed to grudgingly accept that it was ok but not a Land Rover or specifically not a Defender.

If it has to say "Land Rover" and/or "Defender" on the back then - wonderful news - Land Rover are still making a car called a Defender.

This is the car Land Rover saw fit to design for these people, and they are welcome to go rustle sheep in it

 

[Sam]

Choose! And it can't be a 20yo shitbox.

My old Defender was anything but a 20 year old shitbox. lt was flippin' awesome.

But the new one works better for my business.

Looks awesome. Mine was awesome too... loved it.

But what is a farmer/the government/utility companies etc supposed to go into a shop and buy?

 

[Tom109]

I also now rather like the steering, now that I have a couple of thousand kms on the clock, I never hated it, but it does take some time to adapt and feel really comfortable with it.

Yes, this 100%. In my first test drive the feel of my 1996 Discovery steering came flooding back. It was like an old friend! I much prefer the feel, along with the coil sprung solid axles.

 

[Tazzieman]

The new Defender isn't a "Discovery in a dress" as some (non-owners) claim.

And to lower it so your grandad can get in.

My dad was able to clamber into my lifted Discovery 1 aged 96. Perhaps because ...

And that's why I specced rocksliders as a grandad myself

 

[AnD3rew]

The new Defender isn't a "Discovery in a dress" as some (non-owners) claim.

lt's nothing like a Discovery. l've driven them both and Discovery is a lovely vehicle but nothing like the Defender.
I am willing to bet that those who say so have never driven either vehicle.
The Defender is best on coils, if you want it to feel like a "Defender"
The fact that most prefer the air suspension tells you the market for these vehicles.
Although l will concede the air suspension does allow you to raise the ride height by 10cm for wading and more extreme off road.
And to lower it so your grandad can get in.

I don’t know about the “in a dress” comment but the New Defender is 100% the Discovery 5 that should have been, and I do not in any way mean that in a disparaging way. I love Discoveries and have owned 3 and yes I have Driven the New Defender. I didn’t buy the Discovery 5 because it was an SUV and not a Discovery. I seriously considered a New Defender and it is a lovely vehicle. But the Grenadier scratches more of my itches.

 

[lightning]

I don’t know about the “in a dress” comment but the New Defender is 100% the Discovery 5 that should have been, and I do not in any way mean that in a disparaging way. I love Discoveries and have owned 3 and yes I have Driven the New Defender. I didn’t buy the Discovery 5 because it was an SUV and not a Discovery. I seriously considered a New Defender and it is a lovely vehicle. But the Grenadier scratches more of my itches.

l am actually with you on this.
l would swap my new Defender for a Grenadier tomorrow if the figures added up. l love the Defender, it's perfect for what l use it for.

The Grenadier would be wasted on me. I spend 95% of my time on road. But l would still have one tomorrow if the figures added up.
But l can't put it through my business because it's not a "commercial vehicle" so it doesn't work.

 

[Cheshire cat]

l am actually with you on this.
l would swap my new Defender for a Grenadier tomorrow if the figures added up. l love the Defender, it's perfect for what l use it for.

The Grenadier would be wasted on me. I spend 95% of my time on road. But l would still have one tomorrow if the figures added up.
But l can't put it through my business because it's not a "commercial vehicle" so it doesn't work.

Not the worst dilemma to have. Personally I think the ND is a great looking car. One of the things I love about the Grenadier. Unlikely to see it as a school run bus. Its rarity value definitely appeals to me along with its other attributes. As a business can you not do what I have to do and just buy it with absolutely no tax benefits?

 

[DaveB]

l am actually with you on this.
l would swap my new Defender for a Grenadier tomorrow if the figures added up. l love the Defender, it's perfect for what l use it for.

The Grenadier would be wasted on me. I spend 95% of my time on road. But l would still have one tomorrow if the figures added up.
But l can't put it through my business because it's not a "commercial vehicle" so it doesn't work.

I would really love one of these but it doesn't suit my needs

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2726CMPerFM

 

[lightning]

l could see me visiting customers in that. Plus it would be great on the local bridleway

 

[Tazzieman]

I would really love one of these but it doesn't suit my needs

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2726CMPerFM

Needs side steps

 

[Cheshire cat]

Needs side steps

If side steps are ordered I want the exact height from the ground to both top and bottom of the step. For good measure, throw in the width.