Owl Vans Grenadier Steering Box Upgrade

[Zimm]

Yesterday I took my son out for a couple driving lessons. Granted he is still working out the nerves, but man even with the return to center being massively better with the Fox stabilizer the Grenadier is just an accident waiting to happen as compared to the Gwagon, Rivian or even the Humvee. It's just not intuitive for inexperienced drivers.

i wont valet park it.

 

[Dokatd]

i wont valet park it.

Hah, I don't blame you

 

[LRNAD90]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_bdg116sXA

 

[INEOS OG]

Actually, I think it’d be better to train him on the Grenadier. I see way too many young drivers go around corners and then let go of the wheel and expect the car to self center. Yes it will, until you’re in adverse conditions and it doesn’t. Better to learn to drive the wheel back to Center than expect it too. This might also be why I noticed that most people can’t drive around corners worth of crap anymore. It would drive me nuts if I was an automotive engineer and worked on the perfect steering and suspension system and then watched everyone go around corners at 10 miles an hour.

Absolutely. Driving vehicles with no power steering and no power brake systems designed in the 1940s learning to drive in early 1980s made me a safer young driver. Of course, gaining mastery of these cars made me dangerous, but I am so appreciative of the manual and analog vehicles I learned on.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Yesterday I took my son out for a couple driving lessons. Granted he is still working out the nerves, but man even with the return to center being massively better with the Fox stabilizer the Grenadier is just an accident waiting to happen as compared to the Gwagon, Rivian or even the Humvee. It's just not intuitive for inexperienced drivers.

lol don’t put inexperienced drivers in a grenadier perhaps?

You bring it up as if it’s marketed for new drivers

 

[Tenac]

lol don’t put inexperienced drivers in a grenadier perhaps?

You bring it up as if it’s marketed for new drivers

lol that is a great marketing campaign for IG. Don't buy or drive unless you grew up with old vehicles or don't currently have power steering. HAHAHA

 

[Dokatd]

lol don’t put inexperienced drivers in a grenadier perhaps?

You bring it up as if it’s marketed for new drivers

That there is the issue. I'd put him in a 90's rover all day long. Hell he started driving Unimog's before anything. The fact that the Grenadier is somehow special in those regards is just ridiculous and it's sad so many people here accept it. It's not high performance in any way shape or form. It shouldn't have had these quirks.

This is especially true when they have what seemingly look like pre teens driving their trucks in the commercials.

 

[Zimm]

This belief that driving something that handles like the gren first, makes you safer and better, is kinda dumb.

The gren goes where you point it. The behavior is predictable and smooth. It just doesnt return to center, which in and of itself, is NOT inherently dangerous, it just means you need to do it yourself. Any danger from it, is from the expectation that it exists. Knowing that it does not, and adapting to that, in no way makes you better at driving cars that do return to center. One does not drive an automatic better, just because they can drive a standard.

 

[chtucker]

This belief that driving something that handles like the gren first, makes you safer and better, is kinda dumb.

The gren goes where you point it. The behavior is predictable and smooth. It just doesnt return to center, which in and of itself, is NOT inherently dangerous, it just means you need to do it yourself. Any danger from it, is from the expectation that it exists. Knowing that it does not, and adapting to that, in no way makes you better at driving cars that do return to center. One does not drive an automatic better, just because they can drive a standard.

We have 3 vehicles and twins that just turned 16 this week-

2006/7 FJ Cruiser that we have owned since new
2021 Ford Bronco First Edition
2024 Grenadier

The Bronco is the easiest for them to drive- Tracks straight, blind spot and cross traffic alert, AEB, front and rear parking sensors, 360 camera, reasonable blind spot
FJ Cruiser - The one they will be driving- No tech, No Carplay, No Bluetooth, no cameras, horrible blind spot. Decent on the highway. Sat in a lawn chair and had my daughter change the oil and my son rotate the tires. I reminded the kids that I have had the car longer than I have had them
Grenadier- No BLIS + no return to center + plus doesn't track as well on the highway. I am not saying never, but its a last resort that they drive this.

Wife walks to work and I have a company car, so they really could be driving any of the three. The best option would probably be to sell the FJ and buy a new Corolla or Civic with new tech. My wife would kill me though.

New drivers have a lot to learn, there is no shame in giving them an advantage, or the Grenadier's case a disadvantage. Sure they all "should" be able to drive stick, double clutch it, no power steering, no power brakes and have non return to center steering, but why make it harder...

If you have the means (likely you do if a Grenadier is not your primary vehicle), then why wouldn't you avoid trouble by giving your kids something easier to drive?

 

[Dokatd]

We have 3 vehicles and twins that just turned 16 this week-

2006/7 FJ Cruiser that we have owned since new
2021 Ford Bronco First Edition
2024 Grenadier

The Bronco is the easiest for them to drive- Tracks straight, blind spot and cross traffic alert, AEB, front and rear parking sensors, 360 camera, reasonable blind spot
FJ Cruiser - The one they will be driving- No tech, No Carplay, No Bluetooth, no cameras, horrible blind spot. Decent on the highway. Sat in a lawn chair and had my daughter change the oil and my son rotate the tires. I reminded the kids that I have had the car longer than I have had them
Grenadier- No BLIS + no return to center + plus doesn't track as well on the highway. I am not saying never, but its a last resort that they drive this.

Wife walks to work and I have a company car, so they really could be driving any of the three. The best option would probably be to sell the FJ and buy a new Corolla or Civic with new tech. My wife would kill me though.

New drivers have a lot to learn, there is no shame in giving them an advantage, or the Grenadier's case a disadvantage. Sure they all "should" be able to drive stick, double clutch it, no power steering, no power brakes and have non return to center steering, but why make it harder...

If you have the means (likely you do if a Grenadier is not your primary vehicle), then why wouldn't you avoid trouble by giving your kids something easier to drive?

100%! But why should we all be polishing the Ineos logo as we say "oh it just has a few quirks". Let's mostly all agree the Grenadier drives like crap yet has nothing innovative or quirky about its build.

It doesn't have quirks, it has some pretty significant design flaws. This can be regardless of if you can tolerate or even prefer the "quirks". The fact that many here can agree the Grenadier is not overly safe for a new driver is a bit problematic. I understand a Hellcat or a Bugatti etc not being a good choice as temptation is a killer. But the Grenadier is slow, moderately priced and conventional in almost every aspect. Assuming your wallet can handle it the Grenadier should be a perfect first vehicle outside of a clunker civic or something. But I live in an area where 16yr olds are getting $100k trucks on their first birthday. So a Civic or a Ford Fiesta is kinda out. So price aside what leads anyone to think a Grenadier is not a good first vehicle aside from how poorly they handle? This just exposes the reality of it all.

Sorry for the brief rant, I just get worked up about this because I want Ineos and the Grenadier to do well, but it won't until people take this stuff serious.

 

[TCMColorado]

If any licensed driver has trouble driving the Grenadier then they should not be driving at all. Yes the Grenadier has different handling characteristics than other vehicles but the reality is every vehicle drives a bit differently than everything else. Any competent driver should be able to easily compensate as needed.

I also think the slow steering ratio is a bigger contributing factor to how the Grenadier drives than is the minimal return to center. The wheel has to be rotated through more degrees of motion to execute a turn than is typically required. This definitely catches you off guard at first and even very experienced drivers tend to undershoot the mark during the first few drives. But again any driver should be quick to adapt. If more return to center is desired then a number of aftermarket steering dampers easily solve that problem.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

100%! But why should we all be polishing the Ineos logo as we say "oh it just has a few quirks". Let's mostly all agree the Grenadier drives like crap yet has nothing innovative or quirky about its build.

It doesn't have quirks, it has some pretty significant design flaws. This can be regardless of if you can tolerate or even prefer the "quirks". The fact that many here can agree the Grenadier is not overly safe for a new driver is a bit problematic. I understand a Hellcat or a Bugatti etc not being a good choice as temptation is a killer. But the Grenadier is slow, moderately priced and conventional in almost every aspect. Assuming your wallet can handle it the Grenadier should be a perfect first vehicle outside of a clunker civic or something. But I live in an area where 16yr olds are getting $100k trucks on their first birthday. So a Civic or a Ford Fiesta is kinda out. So price aside what leads anyone to think a Grenadier is not a good first vehicle aside from how poorly they handle? This just exposes the reality of it all.

Sorry for the brief rant, I just get worked up about this because I want Ineos and the Grenadier to do well, but it won't until people take this stuff serious.

Terrible rear visibility. Digital rear mirror is not standard so I can’t give Ineos credit by saying” just install a wolf box”

Tiny ass side mirrors.

When it sheets, snow will build up on the headlights

Distracting hvac, requiring driver to constantly mess with it.

Highly intrusive auto start/stop. Loss of power steering at the most inopportune time.

Poor navigability due to long Turing radius.

All of the above contribute to greater challenge for new drivers.

Should I go on?

 

[chtucker]

100%! But why should we all be polishing the Ineos logo as we say "oh it just has a few quirks". Let's mostly all agree the Grenadier drives like crap yet has nothing innovative or quirky about its build.

It doesn't have quirks, it has some pretty significant design flaws. This can be regardless of if you can tolerate or even prefer the "quirks". The fact that many here can agree the Grenadier is not overly safe for a new driver is a bit problematic. I understand a Hellcat or a Bugatti etc not being a good choice as temptation is a killer. But the Grenadier is slow, moderately priced and conventional in almost every aspect. Assuming your wallet can handle it the Grenadier should be a perfect first vehicle outside of a clunker civic or something. But I live in an area where 16yr olds are getting $100k trucks on their first birthday. So a Civic or a Ford Fiesta is kinda out. So price aside what leads anyone to think a Grenadier is not a good first vehicle aside from how poorly they handle? This just exposes the reality of it all.

Sorry for the brief rant, I just get worked up about this because I want Ineos and the Grenadier to do well, but it won't until people take this stuff serious.

I haven't found a flaw...
and its pretty friggin reliable with only one recall compared to the 11 outstanding recalls on my Bronco.

Pretty much a lame excuse that since other kids are getting $100k vehicles, ours should too-- My kids will be happy they aren't on the bus. I am confident that I live in a HCOL location than anywhere in Texas. The Grenadier is not moderately priced, its 50% higher than the average vehicle sold.

I never said it handled poorly- It handles as designed for what it was meant for.

 

[Dokatd]

Terrible rear visibility. Digital rear mirror is not standard so I can’t give Ineos credit by saying” just install a wolf box”

Tiny ass side mirrors.

When it sheets, snow will build up on the headlights

Distracting hvac, requiring driver to constantly mess with it.

Highly intrusive auto start/stop. Loss of power steering at the most inopportune time.

Poor navigability due to long Turing radius.

All of the above contribute to greater challenge for new drivers.

Should I go on?

Thanks for pointing out all the other flaws

 

[MileHigh]

Who

As in Owl power steering pump.

Quit trying to TURN this into something else.
Let’s stay on center
Hopefully the OWL pump will stop all the whining
Let’s return to the center of the discussion

 

[Dokatd]

I haven't found a flaw...
and its pretty friggin reliable with only one recall compared to the 11 outstanding recalls on my Bronco.

Pretty much a lame excuse that since other kids are getting $100k vehicles, ours should too-- My kids will be happy they aren't on the bus. I am confident that I live in a HCOL location than anywhere in Texas. The Grenadier is not moderately priced, its 50% higher than the average vehicle sold.

I never said it handled poorly- It handles as designed for what it was meant for.

Let's be clear, the manufacturer has to actually admit the recall before it can be a recall. Just because Ineos has not admitted several issues rampantly discussed here doesn't mean they don't justify a recall.

Second, my son is getting a very used 230k mile Gwagon. It's currently valued at about $11k at Carvana.

Third, normal pickups with any options whatsoever cost $80k these days. Sorry, prices have gone up and will stay up. Sure you can get a cheap car but even a nice Subaru can put you in the $50k range in a heartbeat.

And fourth, I didn't suggest you said anything.

Just a note, googles AI says the current average is over $50k. Entry level being 40-60k, Mid range $60-100k and high end luxury in excess of $100k.

Range rovers used to be $60k. They are $130k now. Grenadiers are moderately priced unless you are shopping for something more budget like a peoples car.