Heater output

[Skydance]

So the fan in my Grenny, whether on level 4 fan or using the demist for the front windshield (essentially when the fans on full blast) in any mode, has a pretty loud buzzing sound. Levels 1-3 do not do it, so it just doesn’t get used on level 4 fan. Anyone else experiencing this?

Yes mines like this too. A loud frequency sound (high pitch) only on max fan speed. Spoke to my dealers and they’re replacing the fan next week.

 

[GPFACTOR]

Yes mines like this too. A loud frequency sound (high pitch) only on max fan speed. Spoke to my dealers and they’re replacing the fan next week.

good to know. I am just making a list of stuff we can live with for the time being, and then they can replace or re-program it all at once. saves multiple trips down to the dealer.

 

[JOB]

Not good. Maybe as time moves on, we should start naming the less than helpful dealerships.

What was the most offensive was “the loan car is ours, your contract is with Ineos. Now we can’t fix yours, we’re not obliged to loan you the vehicle and it must be returned immediately or we will involve a solicitor.”

Yes, my sales contract isn’t with them but they no doubt want us to continue to service the car with them. Pretty disgusting customer treatment in my opinion.

If your issue isn’t persistent, I wouldn’t visit the dealer until there is a “fix”, they might even at the moment make it worse as they have with rovie and then you’ll be in the glum and hacked off club with us.

 

[AWo]

Yesterday morning I used the heather too in my "Petrol" Grenadier. It was cold, but not very cold. I am also concerned about the heating capacity, but like @Cheshire cat I am not sure that I understand everything about the heather.

What does one need to understand? It should be one of the easiest systems to use.

I just returned from Lappland two days ago, Defender Td4, Diesel and down to -40°C. The heating was fine up to that point. Then the windows iced from the inside and the heating couldn't keep up. And when the engine idles, warm air stops due to too low pressure/flow of the coolant. That's known and one can deal with it.

AWo

 

[rovie]

What was the most offensive was “the loan car is ours, your contract is with Ineos. Now we can’t fix yours, we’re not obliged to loan you the vehicle and it must be returned immediately or we will involve a solicitor.”

Yes, my sales contract isn’t with them but they no doubt want us to continue to service the car with them. Pretty disgusting customer treatment in my opinion.

If your issue isn’t persistent, I wouldn’t visit the dealer until there is a “fix”, they might even at the moment make it worse as they have with rovie and then you’ll be in the glum and hacked off club with us.

Hi @JOB What are they supposed to have done to me? I did not understand this statement of yours.

 

[JOB]

Hi @JOB What are they supposed to have done to me? I did not understand this statement of yours.

In my case, the dealer have bled the system several times by the process posted earlier in this thread, they have also drained and re-filled the cooling system with the vacuum filling method advised by Ineos and this has not solved the lack of heat. In addition, Ineos instructed for some dash panels to be removed for physical examination of components and nothing was found. Personally, I think the issue with all of our cars is either related to the software or electronic control panel. It looks simple with the three dials there on the dash but in reality is far from. It is a digital system with fake analogue controls.

I recently sold my 1981 Mercedes W126 S Class, one of the first fitted with automatic climate control. It worked on a few temperature sensors, a basic push button control panel and lots of vacuum lines. It worked flawlessly 42 years later with not an ECU or 'software update' in sight. I think Ineos could have done a lot better if they had looked at the quality and simplicity of Mercedes cars from 30-40 years ago!

 

[rovie]

In my case, the dealer have bled the system several times by the process posted earlier in this thread, they have also drained and re-filled the cooling system with the vacuum filling method advised by Ineos and this has not solved the lack of heat. In addition, Ineos instructed for some dash panels to be removed for physical examination of components and nothing was found. Personally, I think the issue with all of our cars is either related to the software or electronic control panel. It looks simple with the three dials there on the dash but in reality is far from. It is a digital system with fake analogue controls.

I recently sold my 1981 Mercedes W126 S Class, one of the first fitted with automatic climate control. It worked on a few temperature sensors, a basic push button control panel and lots of vacuum lines. It worked flawlessly 42 years later with not an ECU or 'software update' in sight. I think Ineos could have done a lot better if they had looked at the quality and simplicity of Mercedes cars from 30-40 years ago!

I understand all that. I just didn't understand your statement „…they might even at the moment make it worse as they have with rovie…“

 

[JOB]

I understand all that. I just didn't understand your statement „…they might even at the moment make it worse as they have with rovie…“

In your above post you said everything was fine with your heater until you took it to the dealer. Since then (software update only?) you have observed faults with the system?

 

[rovie]

In your above post you said everything was fine with your heater until you took it to the dealer. Since then (software update only?) you have observed faults with the system?

I re-read my post and realised that I forgot to write that the dealer didn't do anything to the vehicle apart from fitting the quick-release trailer coupling. And that was only mechanical work. So it was a coincidence that the heating worked without restriction before and only worked in the footwell afterwards.

 

[Adventures]

Admittedly I have the petrol version, but my heater and heated seats are very warm. I’ve not tried the AC yet. Will have to do so.
l
Had a strange episode yesterday - it was very chilly - the wipers turned on, and would not stop or change speed, and the indicators would not work…. And a whole raft of amber warnings about brakes, steering and safety systems. After a m8le or three all went back to normal for a half mile. Then all went wrong again. Today all is well.

Hello Coullabus,
your steering column switch did not work properly. This issue happen to several people here.

Christian

 

[Cheshire cat]

When I went to my dealer yesterday, my heating worked very well, as it has done for the last few weeks.
When I drove home, despite the maximum temperature setting, warm air was only coming out of the nozzles in the foot area. In the centre and at the window, the air was freezing cold. I tried all the settings. With/without air conditioning and automatic. When I asked my dealer, he told me that he had already had several customers with this phenomenon recently. How can the problem be solved? - Stop, switch off the engine/ignition, wait 5 minutes. Then start again. Lo and behold, everything works again without any problems. It's magic.

Just tried what you said. Bearing in mind, my heating does not warm up for at least seven or eight miles in weather temperature of 5 degrees. Today I drove 2 miles. Stopped for five minutes. After one further mile, the car was very warm. Interesting.

 

[GPFACTOR]

Just tried what you said. Bearing in mind, my heating does not warm up for at least seven or eight miles in weather temperature of 5 degrees. Today I drove 2 miles. Stopped for five minutes. After one further mile, the car was very warm. Interesting.

The hamster got its morning coffee… just depends on if he feels like running the wheel or not

All joking aside, I’ve had similar experiences. Most of the time it runs nice and warm.

 

[[ Adam ]]

So the fan in my Grenny, whether on level 4 fan or using the demist for the front windshield (essentially when the fans on full blast) in any mode, has a pretty loud buzzing sound. Levels 1-3 do not do it, so it just doesn’t get used on level 4 fan. Anyone else experiencing this?

Yes, it's quite annoying.

To heat in the morning I turn the heat on high, fan on 3.5 ish and recirculation on. Once it comes up to temp I hit auto and turn the temp to 75 or so.

I try to avoid turning the fan high enough to hear the noise.

 

[Highwayman]

I've been thinking about the heater output and general cooling system issues we are all dealing with for several weeks, as it's really annoying.

To summarise my symptoms and issues. As the weather got cooler in autumn, it quickly became clear that my heater hardly produced any heat - nothing from top vents, side vents and foot vents. Car temps were completely normal on the gauges (water, oil, gearbox and transfer case) and did not fluctuate much, once throughly warmed through on longer journeys. Not aware the engine fan cutting in or out - could be happening, but not noticable.

Car booked into the agent (end November) as an unrelated engine light came on (dpf valve had broken) and they tired to fix the heater issue at the same time.

They bled the cooling system many times, using the issued INEOS procedure. It took several attempts, but I think it is sorted now.

My heater now works, but it's weak. I keep the temperature set to 25 degrees and you can feel heat coming from all vents other than the foot vents. If I point the airflow only to the foot vents, and turn the fan up, I can get heat there, but it's still weak.

I've been checking the cooling system as I drive the car (I know, it's become a very sad obsession!) The bottom hose from the water-pump/thermostat to the bottom of the radiator does not get hot. It does not even get mildy warm, it's stone cold. This can be after a short trip (10 miles) or much longer trips (150+ miles). I have stopped at motorway service areas after a couple of hours driving and immediately pulled the bonnet, and the same outcome - bottom hose is stone cold. The top hoses are all hot, as are the smaller hoses at the top of the engine. The radiator matches, in that above the water-pump/thermostat it's hot, below that it's stone cold. My car temperature gauge get's up to 90 degrees very quickly (within two miles) and heat comes out of the central and outer vents also very quickly. Finally, my cooling fan doesn't seem to kick in.

So what could be happening?

I think the air has been bled out of the system, but it did take many, many attempts. I wonder if the water-pump is either weak or not getting the signal from the thermostat to operate at full pressure. It seems to be operating enough to keep the car cool (I would have had serious problems by now after 9,500 miles if it didn't) but may be not enough to push the coolant to all parts of the system under pressure. So I get some heating, but not much - a bit like running your domestic heating system with low water pressure, it heats the radiators that are easy to get to, but not those at the end of the run.

If the operating parameters for the thermostat opening and closing, plus the triggers to turn up the pressure on the electric water pump are not in synch, then it could result in the symptoms I am experiencing. For example, if the water temperature needs to get to 95 degrees before the cooling fan and water-pump fully engages at high pressure, then if the engine can stay under 95 degrees, because of ambient temperature, then it could be that there is never enough water pressure in the system to reach all parts (lower half of the radiator and heater matrix).

I've run this theory by my agent (who is really helpful usually) but not had an answer as yet. I've asked if they can see the operating parameters for the cooling system on their software, or if it's possible to switch the water pump to full pressure permanently (this must be possible as this is what happens when they trigger the "bleed" procedure) to see if that makes a difference.

Thinking about the comments in this thread from @rovie , where switching off the car for five minutes cleared the fault. Could it be that the residual heat in the engine fooled the thermal sensors parameters into think the engine was hotter, and therefore more water pump pressure was required?

Sorry this has turned into an essay!

Does this make sense to you guys? Are any of you not getting heat through the bottom hose during our winter climate? Alternatively, for those down under, is your engine getting hot enough that the bottom hose is at normal temperature?

All thoughts and opinions welcomed .....................

 

[Rab]

My experience / findings with the system are as follows.

In milder conditions you can use the auto function and the system pushes air out through every vent, the only control you have is the temperature dial.

However in cold conditions, like we have at the minute , you need to keep auto off, at least until the interior is warmed up.
I have the temp dial round almost to the maximum, fan set to 1 or 2 (3 if it’s Baltic)and the air flow to feet or feet and screen. Once it’s warm enough I just have the fan at 1 and knock the temp dial back a bit. When auto is off think of the temperature dial as a means of getting heat into the heater core rather than an actual temperature setting.

I think the cold bottom hose is demonstrating how efficiently the radiator is removing the heat from the coolant as it is after all designed to tow 3.5 tonnes in any conditions.
During the summer (warm and wet as opposed to cold and wet) I was towing over three tonnes up long steep grades and the temperature gauge never lifted so there seems to be plenty of cooling capacity.

 

[[ Adam ]]

My experience / findings with the system are as follows.

In milder conditions you can use the auto function and the system pushes air out through every vent, the only control you have is the temperature dial.

However in cold conditions, like we have at the minute , you need to keep auto off, at least until the interior is warmed up.
I have the temp dial round almost to the maximum, fan set to 1 or 2 (3 if it’s Baltic)and the air flow to feet or feet and screen. Once it’s warm enough I just have the fan at 1 and knock the temp dial back a bit. When auto is off think of the temperature dial as a means of getting heat into the heater core rather than an actual temperature setting.

I think the cold bottom hose is demonstrating how efficiently the radiator is removing the heat from the coolant as it is after all designed to tow 3.5 tonnes in any conditions.
During the summer (warm and wet as opposed to cold and wet) I was towing over three tonnes up long steep grades and the temperature gauge never lifted so there seems to be plenty of cooling capacity.

Agreed on all points - This may indicate that in the winter months we need to use a muff on the radiator.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

So the fan in my Grenny, whether on level 4 fan or using the demist for the front windshield (essentially when the fans on full blast) in any mode, has a pretty loud buzzing sound. Levels 1-3 do not do it, so it just doesn’t get used on level 4 fan. Anyone else experiencing this?

Same, and yesterday I started to get the most annoying whistle from inside the dash when the heating is on.

Theres a document in the resources to keep a track of everything that you think needs attention to on a warranty basis.

Find it HERE just download and fill in the details.

 

[JOB]

I've been checking the cooling system as I drive the car (I know, it's become a very sad obsession!) The bottom hose from the water-pump/thermostat to the bottom of the radiator does not get hot. It does not even get mildy warm, it's stone cold. This can be after a short trip (10 miles) or much longer trips (150+ miles). I have stopped at motorway service areas after a couple of hours driving and immediately pulled the bonnet, and the same outcome - bottom hose is stone cold. The top hoses are all hot, as are the smaller hoses at the top of the engine. The radiator matches, in that above the water-pump/thermostat it's hot, below that it's stone cold. My car temperature gauge get's up to 90 degrees very quickly (within two miles) and heat comes out of the central and outer vents also very quickly. Finally, my cooling fan doesn't seem to kick in.

This is really interesting and in some way relatable to the information I was given by my dealer just before Christmas. They have performed the system bleed many times and re-vacuum filled etc and they said the best they could get was warm, not hot, air from the car when running stationary but as soon as they drive it it went back to cold.

Greta won’t like this suggestion but if you start your car, ask for max heat and leave it running for 20 minutes to get fully up to engine temp, does that hose get warm and more importantly; does it go cold again if you set off driving?

Sit rep on our situation, which has taken some positive turns today and I’m very aware that I don’t want to be another cross bloke on the internet complaining for the sake of it.

I get the impression that our dealer has been put under quite significant pressure by lack of coms from Ineos regarding our car as well as a couple of other trouble in patients and they have tried to do a fair job but the lid blew off in my direction this week.

What was out of order was the whole deal about the loan vehicle but I think that is on its way to being resolved as I've now got a direct line to a chap in management at customer services in Ineos UK. He has apologised (for what little that is worth) and committed that they will now either recover our car to their own facility or be directly involved with further diagnosis and repair to rectify the issues. I don’t think stopping, switching off and on, dancing three times round the maypole and feeling up the coolant hoses every time the car goes out is a satisfactory solution. I want this thing to perform right, it was after all “Built on Purpose”. (I knew marketing was bullshit!)

In the meantime he is organising another vehicle, thankfully a diesel with tow bar, to be provided directly from Ineos so my agent can have their demo back. Hopefully everyone will be happy then.

Over the last few weeks I've become so disillusioned with 'Grenadier' and if you'd asked me yesterday, there was no way I wanted it back and just wanted a refund and to move on, essentially throwing two years waiting and a whole load of enthusiasm for this project in the bin. We're going to give it a bit more time and hopefully Ineos UK will be able to restore faith. I was genuinely so gutted and pretty glum about how things had turned out and also worried about how much egg I would have on my face when all the people I told (bored to death) about the Grenadier asked me why I was back driving my old Range Rover!

 

[Orcmurd]

My Greny will be off to the dealers soon for the auto-bleed in the hope of getting some hot air out of the vents. After reading some of the posts above, I hope the issue will be resolved.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

Don’t any of you own a thermometer?
Start sticking one in the vents.

Either the air temp is to spec or is not.