Hagerty & Daily Telegraph Reviews (UK)

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2023 Ineos Grenadier review: There’s still work to be done with this workhorse​

2023 Ineos Grenadier review: There's still work to be done with this workhorse | Hagerty UK

After driving the Ineos Grenadier on the road and off the beaten track, Andrew English finds there's still fine-tuning required.

www.hagerty.co.uk

The same reviewer also posts to the Daily Telegraph, reviews combined.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/fe...perfect-reproduction-old-land-rover-defender/

View attachment 7802740

 

[Stu_Barnes]

I know someone in the UK, not on this forum, that cancelled because of the delivery delays. They went back to Land Rover for their personal vehicles and Toyota and Isuzu for the work trucks.
They said maybe they’ll have another look during the next buying cycle.
That was 5 vehicles for one person/company. It’s one of those things that really depends on your personal situation I think.

 

[MileHigh]

The one thing that intrigued me on this interview was the comments about the four-wheel-drive system, and the differentials. Someone else mentioned some issues with them not engaging as quickly as they thought they should, but he made it sound like there were some issues way beyond that here.
On some of the other things, especially the connectivity of the maps, I would attribute 50% of the problems to use or not the vehicle. Do people understand the switch Ology and the connectivity correctly? Did I understand him correctly that he was complaining that the aerodynamics make it so that the side windows get dirty and you can’t see the rearview mirrors is not true of any of these big boxy trucks my Chevy truck gets some weird wicked ice, and other formations on the side of the car, that’s what happens when you go through a freezing storm blizzard at 10,000 feet at 70 miles an hour

Considering that the car is set up to use connection apps like CarPlay, I’d like to see what kind of cradle attachment way you can get.

I took the comment about ground clearance to mean that the lowest point is used to calculate that, while the real world has a lot of flat and bumpy parts, that aren’t uniform.

If that is a bad review, or the worst review that it gets, that’s pretty good. This is a specialty niche vehicle.

 

[stickshifter]

J.D. Power came out with their vehicle dependability study for 2022 today. This is by no means the most authoritative data set, and you have to understand what they measure to put it in context. In this graphic, they are measuring problems reported to dealerships per 100 vehicles. Sometimes these studies get really skewed by problems with the infotainment system, which is not an issue that many of us would consider relevant to how reliable a vehicle will be in terms of starting every morning, driving without going into limp-mode, not overheating while towing, not breaking when doing moderate off road driving, etc.

There also seems to be a lot of shifting of positions from year to year. For example, a year ago, Ram trucks were just below the industry average, and this year they are second from the bottom. On the other hand, Land Rover has been in the bottom spot three years running.

This is what J.D. Power has to say about their study: "J.D. Power Quality and Reliability ratings are a combination of quality and dependability scores. Quality scores are based on initial owner response and feedback of their new purchase whereas Dependability scores focus on longer-term ownership experiences of 3 years."

dependability Awards and Ratings| J.D. Power

See which cars, trucks, and SUVs got the highest dependability ratings to learn how car manufacturers measured up against competitors in the same category.

www.jdpower.com

So, despite all those caveats, I'll post their graphs from the last three years, since earlier in the thread we were speculating about reliability, and comparing what we hope for in the Grenadier to the new Defender. Not trying to throw shade on LR, I just thought it interesting, despite the limitations of the survey.

 

[tartan shepherd]

Thanks Stickshifter for posting: Most reviewers concentrate on vehicle dynamics and rarely on the reliability, robustness or charm rating of dealerships. With the exception of the Late Brake guy who was politely honest in his appraisal of LR product.

 

[jamgolf]

I like Land Rovers. The design language. The form factor. The bandwidth of use cases. All those aspects are positive in my opinion.
But after 10 years of ownership - I know they are unreliable. If they were reliable, I'd keep buying Land Rovers. JLR's inability to make reliable cars is sad.

Even from the 3-year trend that @stickshifter posted, we can see that not only did LR remain at the very bottom but also the "problems per 100" metric increased significantly year over year i.e. while remaining at the bottom, they became even worse.

 

[DaveB]

The one thing that intrigued me on this interview was the comments about the four-wheel-drive system, and the differentials. Someone else mentioned some issues with them not engaging as quickly as they thought they should, but he made it sound like there were some issues way beyond that here.
On some of the other things, especially the connectivity of the maps, I would attribute 50% of the problems to use or not the vehicle. Do people understand the switch Ology and the connectivity correctly? Did I understand him correctly that he was complaining that the aerodynamics make it so that the side windows get dirty and you can’t see the rearview mirrors is not true of any of these big boxy trucks my Chevy truck gets some weird wicked ice, and other formations on the side of the car, that’s what happens when you go through a freezing storm blizzard at 10,000 feet at 70 miles an hour

Considering that the car is set up to use connection apps like CarPlay, I’d like to see what kind of cradle attachment way you can get.

I took the comment about ground clearance to mean that the lowest point is used to calculate that, while the real world has a lot of flat and bumpy parts, that aren’t uniform.

If that is a bad review, or the worst review that it gets, that’s pretty good. This is a specialty niche vehicle.

Ground clearance is measured differently by different manufacturers
Most ignore anything that is unsprung so axles, diffs, suspension, brakes.
Some use ground clearance as to anything that can be damaged.

For the e-lockers they state it is best if you are moving slowly and they will lock straight in.
If you are stationary they will lock once you start moving.

The centre diff lock needs to be done in neutral and stationary because it has no synchromesh.
One less thing to go wrong.
Some functions you need to hit the button twice to confirm.
I wouldn't want someone to accidently engage front lockers when on the tar.

Front locker can only be engaged hen in low centre locked and rear locked.
Logical because it is always the last one you want to engage.

good thing is you don't have to go into the touch screen for any of those functions.

 

[emax]

I wonder how many have cancelled their orders as a result of these reviews?

All the fainthearted, I guess.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Ground clearance is measured differently by different manufacturers
Most ignore anything that is unsprung so axles, diffs, suspension, brakes.
Some use ground clearance as to anything that can be damaged.

For the e-lockers they state it is best if you are moving slowly and they will lock straight in.
If you are stationary they will lock once you start moving.

The centre diff lock needs to be done in neutral and stationary because it has no synchromesh.
One less thing to go wrong.
Some functions you need to hit the button twice to confirm.
I wouldn't want someone to accidently engage front lockers when on the tar.

Front locker can only be engaged hen in low centre locked and rear locked.
Logical because it is always the last one you want to engage.

good thing is you don't have to go into the touch screen for any of those functions.

I was just looking for something else and stumbled upon this locker testing video:

DaveB - your write up is exactly my experience with e-lockers too, and earlier I speculated that complaints about lockers may have been user error. It still may be. The above video shows them trying to engage the locker on a hill with the Ineos expert on hand; it looks like they have some trouble with it but it also looks like the driver might have been trying to move a bit quick when he started to roll to engage the lockers. But, then there's a sudden cut and the locker is engaged. So they do work - eventually - it's just a question of how finicky they are to engage.

Really looking forward to having some members from here take delivery; I would bet our crew here actually knows how to use 'em and we'll know pretty quick if this is a problem or not! Thankfully being in NA I can wait and see before my order because if they are too much of a headache, perhaps ARB will have some air lockers out before I have to finalize my order (or perhaps INeos will have streamlined this function if needed before mine is ordered -- but then, eggs might be $50/dozen by then so I don't want to wait too long!!).

 

[DaveB]

I was just looking for something else and stumbled upon this locker testing video:

DaveB - your write up is exactly my experience with e-lockers too, and earlier I speculated that complaints about lockers may have been user error. It still may be. The above video shows them trying to engage the locker on a hill with the Ineos expert on hand; it looks like they have some trouble with it but it also looks like the driver might have been trying to move a bit quick when he started to roll to engage the lockers. But, then there's a sudden cut and the locker is engaged. So they do work - eventually - it's just a question of how finicky they are to engage.

Really looking forward to having some members from here take delivery; I would bet our crew here actually knows how to use 'em and we'll know pretty quick if this is a problem or not! Thankfully being in NA I can wait and see before my order because if they are too much of a headache, perhaps ARB will have some air lockers out before I have to finalize my order (or perhaps INeos will have streamlined this function if needed before mine is ordered -- but then, eggs might be $50/dozen by then so I don't want to wait too long!!).

The expert did not really know what he was doing
The lockers won't engage if you are sitting still.

 

[MileHigh]

I was just looking for something else and stumbled upon this locker testing video:



DaveB - your write up is exactly my experience with e-lockers too, and earlier I speculated that complaints about lockers may have been user error. It still may be. The above video shows them trying to engage the locker on a hill with the Ineos expert on hand; it looks like they have some trouble with it but it also looks like the driver might have been trying to move a bit quick when he started to roll to engage the lockers. But, then there's a sudden cut and the locker is engaged. So they do work - eventually - it's just a question of how finicky they are to engage.

Really looking forward to having some members from here take delivery; I would bet our crew here actually knows how to use 'em and we'll know pretty quick if this is a problem or not! Thankfully being in NA I can wait and see before my order because if they are too much of a headache, perhaps ARB will have some air lockers out before I have to finalize my order (or perhaps INeos will have streamlined this function if needed before mine is ordered -- but then, eggs might be $50/dozen by then so I don't want to wait too long!!).

What is all the beeping and noises??? THeir phones? Or did they not turn on off road mode and those are all the proximity alarms going off?

 

[DaveB]

What is all the beeping and noises??? THeir phones? Or did they not turn on off road mode and those are all the proximity alarms going off?

They didn't turn on the off-road mode which didn't help but also as it is a prototype there were other sensors operating that won't normally be there
I noticed in another review the driver hit wading mode, which automatically triggers off-road mode, but only works in Low Locked, and he wasn't locked.