Front Drive Shaft Update

[Dokatd]

Hi y'all, newbie here as I just got my new ti me MY24 last week and was happyto find that among the mods made be the original owner a lift was not done. I happened to be at a good friend's house yesterday and he has his Ligier (formerly Onroak) P300 disassembled and I noticed it has a rzeppa on the transaxle. While I realize it does not have the same angles as the Grenny it seems the boot failure is the real issue. He did a mod to add some cooling to improve longevity but that being said the boot itself prior to the mod has been running in a full on race car since 2016. Maybe we find out what they make their boot of?

I know this is logical thinking, but they are different applications. Drive shafts vs half shafts have wildly different speeds. Some here have gone down this path fairly far only to find there is not a solution there.

 

[DeepCJ7]

In the picture it's the grave shart from the transaxle to the wheel.

 

[Dokatd]

In the picture it's the grave shart from the transaxle to the wheel.

That's a half shaft in the pic. A shaft from a trans axle or differential to the wheel is a half shaft. A drive shaft is from the transmission to the differential.

Ok yes, that's being a bit picky but the difference is very important in regards to this conversation. The difference can be 4x more RPMS plus or minus.

 

[DeepCJ7]

That's a half shaft in the pic. A shaft from a trans axle or differential to the wheel is a half shaft. A drive shaft is from the transmission to the differential.

Ok yes, that's being a bit picky but the difference is very important in regards to this conversation. The difference can be 4x more RPMS plus or minus.

That's kind of my point. This sees what more heat as it is a few inches away from a very hot exhaust and is spinning at way higher RPMs without any issues and regularly raced since 2016. I think the technological know how to fix the issue exists we just need to figure out the combination.

 

[Dokatd]

That's kind of my point. This sees what more heat as it is a few inches away from a very hot exhaust and is spinning at way higher RPMs without any issues and regularly raced since 2016. I think the technological know how to fix the issue exists we just need to figure out the combination.

You have it backwards, half shafts spin slower and drive shafts spins faster.

 

[TCMColorado]

The difference in rotation between the drive shaft and the axle shafts is determined by the differential gearing. The Grenadier has 4.10 gears therefore the drive shaft spins 4.1 times for every single rotation of the axle shafts.

 

[OkGo]

If he's remote, the tow to the nearest dealership is included in the roadside assistance.

The Ineos roadside is only for a short period isn't it ? 2 years in the UK. After that you are on your own. And mainstream retail roadside will not come to you if you are remote.

Just wondering if you guys in the states got some other deal?

 

[TCMColorado]

The Ineos roadside is only for a short period isn't it ? 2 years in the UK. After that you are on your own. And mainstream retail roadside will not come to you if you are remote.

Just wondering if you guys in the states got some other deal?

It is my understanding that US roadside assistance is for the full 5 year warranty period. Towing coverage was originally for a maximum of 100 miles. It now covers towing to the nearest dealer/agent regardless of mileage.

 

[Dokatd]

The difference in rotation between the drive shaft and the axle shafts is determined by the differential gearing. The Grenadier has 4.10 gears therefore the drive shaft spins 4.1 times for every single rotation of the axle shafts.

Yep, thanks, I have already said that on a post before so I was trying to not be overly redundant. Nice having some help every now and then.

 

[Commodore]

I little new year update. For the last month I have been talking to someone very highly place at Ineos NA (I promised not to say his name or share screenshots). Has had some conversations with the team in “Quality Team” in Germany regarding the driveshaft issue. They are “looking into global warranty claims vs. total units in operation to understand the failure rate”. He has another meeting with them next Friday and has promised to update me.

I have impressed upon him that this is the only significant problem with the truck. The other issues are annoying but manageable.

I doubt he is going to reveal actual data but I do think he is going to give me a direction. Reading between the lines here, Ineos obviously doesn’t yet see this as an issue and hasn’t started working on an engineering solution. That or he isn’t being truthful with me but on our phone call he seemed very genuine.

I’ll update you when I know more.

 

[mattexplore]

Mine is still down awaiting parts. I had been considering removing my 30mm lift springs and leaving the Kings, but I’ve realized to be reliable both may have to come off.

According to the post I linked below, the Kings have a roughly one inch longer extension length and that could be what’s pinching the boot, leading to tearing and then failure. I recall topping out a few times on rough pavement too.

This is going to be an expensive mistake.


Post in thread 'Supension Upgrade Options'
https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/supension-upgrade-options.12417301/post-1333318752

 

[Dokatd]

Mine is still down awaiting parts. I had been considering removing my 30mm lift springs and leaving the Kings, but I’ve realized to be reliable both may have to come off.

According to the post I linked below, the Kings have a roughly one inch longer extension length and that could be what’s pinching the boot, leading to tearing and then failure. I recall topping out a few times on rough pavement too.

This is going to be an expensive mistake.


Post in thread 'Supension Upgrade Options'
https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/supension-upgrade-options.12417301/post-1333318752

Not sure returning to stock makes it any more significantly reliable. Stock trucks are loosing boots as well. They just usually make it a few more miles between boots. I have personally replaced a few boots on stock shocks on mine and others trucks.

 

[Commodore]

Mine is still down awaiting parts. I had been considering removing my 30mm lift springs and leaving the Kings, but I’ve realized to be reliable both may have to come off.

According to the post I linked below, the Kings have a roughly one inch longer extension length and that could be what’s pinching the boot, leading to tearing and then failure. I recall topping out a few times on rough pavement too.

This is going to be an expensive mistake.


Post in thread 'Supension Upgrade Options'
https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/supension-upgrade-options.12417301/post-1333318752

I don’t think I would return it to stock. Just replace the CV with a JL/JT CV for $100 and check it often. Replace it again when you see a rip in the boot or every 10k miles. I keep thinking that a real fix is going to make it to market

 

[ECrider]

Boot failure and catastrophic failure are two different things. There are two failure modes to be concerned about, boot failure and clip failure. I have had both on my truck. Boot failure ultimately ends in potential fire. And clip failure can possibly end with mechanical damage to transfer case or transmission.

Boot failure is the predominant failure, it starts with a tear in the boot, then grease leaves the chat. At that point you are on borrowed time as the joint starts cooking itself if you keep operating at high speeds. But if you are driving say sub 50mph then the joint may last forever in relative terms. I would confidently and have for that matter driven on a torn boot for hundreds of miles at lower non highways speeds. I would not consider highway unless it was a short exit to exit run.

A clip failure is virtually impossible to spot pre failure. You can only feel for this or tear down the joint to inspect. You would have to fairly aggressively putt on the back half of the shaft trying to pull the shaft out of the joint. If it gives at all your clip failed. But this assumes full failure. I personally had a partial failure that would not have shown without tearing down the joint.

To prevent a clip failure your only solution is to change the clip prior to setting off regardless of mileage on the clip.

To prevent a boot failure you should change the boot or whole joint about every 7-10k miles. So if you're taking off on a 2k mi journey and you have 5k miles on your current joint/boot I would highly consider swapping the boot and joint. You can keep the part you replaced as an emergency spare, it's still good.

Hopefully that all makes sense, neither would keep me from taking a trip, I would just check the assembly at every fueling stop and be vigilant about any tone changes or minor vibrations that don't feel normal.

Hi Dokatd, tks yours once again.

I had thought when we previously discussed circlip and boot it was always a boot failure that had potential to lead to a then circlip failure. Just so I have your opinion/experience correct there are failures of the clip independent of boot failure?

With mine my clip had left the chat but there was an obvious pinch/tear to the boot once I inspected the removed shaft.

I presume you can have boot failure meaning grease leaves the building and then the shaft will eventually eat itself leading to spline and clip failure, but also you can have a clip failure which then mangles the boot with perhaps no obvious prior pinch damage?