Front Drive Shaft Update

[Commodore]

I wonder how can we do a class action lawsuit against Ineos or what's the way force them to admit this is somthing they need to do a recall.

I have been through enough litigation in my life and filing another one next month. That is life as an industrial landlord in Kalifornia. One thing I will say... litigation is a full contact sport for the wealthy. It's a time suck and will keep you awake at night. The best thing would be if NTSB determines this is a safety concern. Look at the GM 6.2L engine recall. That took years to happen and involved 800,000 cars/trucks.

Another one that affected me directly was the famous Porsche M96 intermittent shaft bearing failure. Porsche never did a recall, never admitted it was an issue, but a few years into the production fun of 997 they revised the engine and got rid of the IMS bearing entirely. I suspect this is what Inoes is going to do and the fact that Ineos completely refuses to comment on the issue is sorta the tell on their strategy... Hell the issue is even marked as "solved" in the forums "ask Ineos" section... something smells funny with this one. Ineos will redesign the front driveline and just keep replacing existing customers driveshaft until they are out of warranty. The Porsche IMS bearing was solved by the aftermarket and really isn't an issue now. I know of one aftermarket company working on a Grenadier driveshaft with an oversized CV joint and an adapter to the existing t-case yoke. I only know about it because I contacted the same driveline shop to inquire about this exact solution and he showed me the prototype that he is currently working on for the very well know aftermarket parts vendor. Assuming that it works out like it should, this is most likely be the fix that we will all end up with.

Just have a little patience and I do belive that the aftermarket will solve this.

 

[Tazzieman]

Just have a little patience and I do belive that the aftermarket will solve this.

Correct. If humans can send a dog into space in the 50s, anything is possible.
OK , the dog burned up on re-entry. We are sort of at that stage with driveshafts.
But before long , humans were getting back to earth safely. Hold that thought.

 

[evomind]

I have been through enough litigation in my life and filing another one next month. That is life as an industrial landlord in Kalifornia. One thing I will say... litigation is a full contact sport for the wealthy. It's a time suck and will keep you awake at night. The best thing would be if NTSB determines this is a safety concern. Look at the GM 6.2L engine recall. That took years to happen and involved 800,000 cars/trucks.

Another one that affected me directly was the famous Porsche M96 intermittent shaft bearing failure. Porsche never did a recall, never admitted it was an issue, but a few years into the production fun of 997 they revised the engine and got rid of the IMS bearing entirely. I suspect this is what Inoes is going to do and the fact that Ineos completely refuses to comment on the issue is sorta the tell on their strategy... Hell the issue is even marked as "solved" in the forums "ask Ineos" section... something smells funny with this one. Ineos will redesign the front driveline and just keep replacing existing customers driveshaft until they are out of warranty. The Porsche IMS bearing was solved by the aftermarket and really isn't an issue now. I know of one aftermarket company working on a Grenadier driveshaft with an oversized CV joint and an adapter to the existing t-case yoke. I only know about it because I contacted the same driveline shop to inquire about this exact solution and he showed me the prototype that he is currently working on for the very well know aftermarket parts vendor. Assuming that it works out like it should, this is most likely be the fix that we will all end up with.

Just have a little patience and I do belive that the aftermarket will solve this.

Hello my friend...
But at what cost??

 

[TCMColorado]

Of course it will not be free or low cost, but I would rather spend the money to solve the problem permanently than continue returning to the dealer that is 100 miles away to have them repeatedly replace the front prop shaft. That is the cost of being an early adopter.

 

[Commodore]

Hello my friend...
But at what cost??

I would expect it to be around $1,200 USD but I don't know for certain. The CV is a bit more than a u-joint and then there is the machined adapter. Maybe $1,500 on the top end but it would be a permanent fix and still less money than a cut and turn on the front axle.

Of course I think that Ineos should do the right thing and fix this permanently under warranty. Ultimately, it will cost them more reputationally if these fail every 10-20k on a stock setup. I'm not very hopeful given they won't even acknowledge the issue yet they are likely processing warranty claims every day for this problem.

 

[evomind]

I would expect it to be around $1,200 USD but I don't know for certain. The CV is a bit more than a u-joint and then there is the machined adapter. Maybe $1,500 on the top end but it would be a permanent fix and still less money than a cut and turn on the front axle.

Of course I think that Ineos should do the right thing and fix this permanently under warranty. Ultimately, it will cost them more reputationally if these fail every 10-20k on a stock setup. I'm not very hopeful given they won't even acknowledge the issue yet they are likely processing warranty claims every day for this problem.

Oh...I can do 1500 bucks.
Good enough to lift it a bit and whatnot?
Im in.

 

[Commodore]

Oh...I can do 1500 bucks.
Good enough to lift it a bit and whatnot?
Im in.

I think we should know in the next few months. When I was there last week they where going to make some adjustments to the adapter plate and have another patch machined. That is really the key to the system.

 

[Rayzar]

I think we should know in the next few months. When I was there last week they where going to make some adjustments to the adapter plate and have another patch machined. That is really the key to the system.

I hope there is a fix for this. Ive been wanting to order a MY26 but this drive shaft issue along with the HVAC disappoints me. Im just gobsmacked as to how they came so close to the perfect 4X4 thats causing failures.

 

[C-Mack]

Hoping this magical driveshaft in development isn’t yet another cobbled together multi-cardan setup with a bunch of adapters as the chances of it running smooth at higher speeds is very low due to current running axle/differential and transfer case flange angles. If it’s an improved more robust Rzeppa design solving the boot and c-clip issues then there is some hope. If it can’t run smooth at freeway speeds we all travel at to get places then it’s not a solution. Off-road only is one thing but this is the real world and the driveshaft has to work in all scenarios and environments. Fingers crossed!

 

[MattA]

I hope there is a fix for this. Ive been wanting to order a MY26 but this drive shaft issue along with the HVAC disappoints me. Im just gobsmacked as to how they came so close to the perfect 4X4 thats causing failures.

Absolutely in the same boat, since the last idea was first floated I was very keen and have followed the progress of Ineos and the Grenadier release.
Some of the quirks I can easily live with but the HVAC and drive shaft are just inexcusable stuff ups, as soon as they are rectified with a real solution and redesigned I’m in

 

[ridler101]

Long Story short. My last post showing my front drive shaft broken in Glamis, since Ineos doesn't want to cover it under the warrantyI took my car to Agile Offroad for some better aftermarket solution.

Please note: All products installed on my car is still a prototype.

John Brindell All thanks to Agile Offroad!

I have both front and rear draft replaced with a U joint solution. The only cons is if you fully release the gas pedal at 70mph or higher you will hear some noise like 'Voom Voom' from the drive shaft. Other than that, no vibration or noise for other situation. If you lifted and also have 35 tire on your Grenadier I recommend you replace the factory CV joint.
They also helped me to reuse the rear shaft CV joint to replace the broken front one, now I have a factory front drive shaft as a spare. ( Note: Dealer is charging $1300 for the whole front drive shaft).

One more modification I have is the rear sway bar air link. It definitely will give you more flexibility when you on trail! Looking forward also get the front one!

It's a fantastic experience to work with Agile Offroad to get on the ground and resolve some real offroad issues for the Grenadier!

Long Story short. My last post showing my front drive shaft broken in Glamis, since Ineos doesn't want to cover it under the warrantyI took my car to Agile Offroad for some better aftermarket solution.

Please note: All products installed on my car is still a prototype.

John Brindell All thanks to Agile Offroad!

I have both front and rear draft replaced with a U joint solution. The only cons is if you fully release the gas pedal at 70mph or higher you will hear some noise like 'Voom Voom' from the drive shaft. Other than that, no vibration or noise for other situation. If you lifted and also have 35 tire on your Grenadier I recommend you replace the factory CV joint.
They also helped me to reuse the rear shaft CV joint to replace the broken front one, now I have a factory front drive shaft as a spare. ( Note: Dealer is charging $1300 for the whole front drive shaft).

One more modification I have is the rear sway bar air link. It definitely will give you more flexibility when you on trail! Looking forward also get the front one!

It's a fantastic experience to work with Agile Offroad to get on the ground and resolve some real offroad issues for the Grenadier!

I don't use this forum much. But I have read your post. What was the reason why your Grenadier broke ? Was it modified beyond the warranty before you took it to glamis ? What were you doing?