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Friday Musings: Will the Grenadier burst the Defender bubble?

rovie

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Ineos have thoughtfully provided some untreated areas so that you can wean yourself carefully off the rust treatment processes and chemicals ~ don't want to go cold turkey from the get go:

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If it had been a real Defender (i.e. the one from back then), many would have put up with it. One should not overestimate that. For me, at least, it doesn't bother me. It's pure surface rust and not unusual in a place like that. You don't see it on many other vehicles because the spot is covered with a "nice" plastic lid.
 

trobex

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Ineos have thoughtfully provided some untreated areas so that you can wean yourself carefully off the rust treatment processes and chemicals ~ don't want to go cold turkey from the get go:

View attachment 7806528
View attachment 7806529
Rust on a car at the dealer's shop? That isn't good - not on anything abutting new rims on a new vehicle. Are we confident the delay is 'software' and not a myriad of other 'minor' defects that are going to be attended to BEFORE the cars are released en masse to the European market??? I mentioned this in an earlier post, that the underside of the PT02 had a particular mounting bracket/plate that looks like 'cut raw' steel or at least the exposed edges were raw... I'll be checking a few things and if need be, will apply a few products on to 'trouble' areas from experience with vehicle use on mud, dirt, rain, bog, etc. Nothing a bit of Dulux MIO cannot treat!
 

trobex

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If it had been a real Defender (i.e. the one from back then), many would have put up with it. One should not overestimate that. For me, at least, it doesn't bother me. It's pure surface rust and not unusual in a place like that. You don't see it on many other vehicles because the spot is covered with a "nice" plastic lid.
My steel rims on the old Triton dont have rust there... 17-year-old steel rims which have only ever been hosed down and never washed/scrubbed... and still no rust except where the actual wall of the rim has been scratched and its VERY minor at that - rust on damaged steel makes sense. Rust anywhere on new vehicle is bad news. unless that is a removal bit of nothing item... then it's something!
 

DCPU

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I mentioned this in an earlier post, that the underside of the PT02 had a particular mounting bracket/plate that looks like 'cut raw' steel or at least the exposed edges were raw.
Do you remember which thread?
 

DaveB

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Rust on a car at the dealer's shop? That isn't good - not on anything abutting new rims on a new vehicle. Are we confident the delay is 'software' and not a myriad of other 'minor' defects that are going to be attended to BEFORE the cars are released en masse to the European market??? I mentioned this in an earlier post, that the underside of the PT02 had a particular mounting bracket/plate that looks like 'cut raw' steel or at least the exposed edges were raw... I'll be checking a few things and if need be, will apply a few products on to 'trouble' areas from experience with vehicle use on mud, dirt, rain, bog, etc. Nothing a bit of Dulux MIO cannot treat!
Once again i ask
Have you placed an order or are you just stirring the pot ?
 

Spjnr

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If it had been a real Defender (i.e. the one from back then), many would have put up with it. One should not overestimate that. For me, at least, it doesn't bother me. It's pure surface rust and not unusual in a place like that. You don't see it on many other vehicles because the spot is covered with a "nice" plastic lid.
Yeah lots of commercial spec vehicles with steel rims have rust on the end of the exposed hub. Even my Jeep with its alloys, when you removed the centre cap, the hub was rusty. Not uncommon
 

trobex

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Once again i ask
Have you placed an order or are you just stirring the pot ?
I am waiting for my damn contract! I don't stir pots, because I prefer to grille over flames!
But I can assure you, rust of any kind on any new car is means for the shop to hold it and repair/fix before it leaves the showroom floor!!!
 

Shaky

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Bizarrely I was going to ask on the forum if anyone had used Lanoguard (rust inhibitor) ? It seems to be all the rage at the minute in the UK and getting some good reviews.

I like the fact that it looks like it is ridiculously easy to apply and relatively cheap.

I was thinking of getting some for my current truck and whatever was left throwing at the IG when I get it

 

DCPU

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Once again i ask
Have you placed an order or are you just stirring the pot ?
You've asked before?

Do Ineos issue whinge credits with every order? Mine seem to have gone walkabout?
 

Stu_Barnes

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Bizarrely I was going to ask on the forum if anyone had used Lanoguard (rust inhibitor) ? It seems to be all the rage at the minute in the UK and getting some good reviews.

I like the fact that it looks like it is ridiculously easy to apply and relatively cheap.

I was thinking of getting some for my current truck and whatever was left throwing at the IG when I get it

If you're looking into anti corrosion and corrosion preventative applications then have a look at this stuff.


If you want any more info then thats easy to get, we also have been promised a forum discount, although its not in the vendors section yet ;)

And before you think about shipping from the UK to OZ, theres a vendor there as well...
 

Tazzieman

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Not sure where this rusty thread is heading but someone with cash to burn will Singerise the Grenadier , I have no doubt.
Singered Defender
 
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DenisM

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Bizarrely I was going to ask on the forum if anyone had used Lanoguard (rust inhibitor) ? It seems to be all the rage at the minute in the UK and getting some good reviews.

I like the fact that it looks like it is ridiculously easy to apply and relatively cheap.

I was thinking of getting some for my current truck and whatever was left throwing at the IG when I get it

Lanoguard came to market in the Land DownUnder as "Lanotec" though it was probably in the Land of the Long white Cloud as well in some form for many years ...the natural product active ingredient, lanolin, being in plentiful supply as a by product from the wool scouring process. Lotza sheep in both countries! Been using it for many years. Excellent corrosion preventative. The in-laws had a beach house for years 100m from the high tide mark to the Pacific ocean.... Most days it was enveloped in a fine cloud of surf mist. I used spray Lanotec inside several critical 5m long 4" square section steel posts every 12 to 18m. When the house was eventually sold 35 yrs later, the engineering inspection was done via a camera, there was no corrosion inside the posts..
Many 4WD enthusiasts buy it in 5L containers and spray the underside of their vehicles before venturing on their beach camping trips. The volatile solvent evaporates and leaves a tough flexible coating. It can be removed with a rag soaked in painters turpentine.

Probably toooo much information🙄
 
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I'm sure there will be some perspective defender customers who will go for a grenadier. I'm not sure how many though as I don't really see them as the same market.

That's the brilliance of the Ineos plan. By building 30,40, 50 k of these things a year they are an annoyance to the other manufacturers. It's probably not worth them making a car in reply. Too costly and not enough potential sales.

Basically the Grenadier will just be an annoyance.
 

grenadierboy

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I'm sure there will be some perspective defender customers who will go for a grenadier. I'm not sure how many though as I don't really see them as the same market.

That's the brilliance of the Ineos plan. By building 30,40, 50 k of these things a year they are an annoyance to the other manufacturers. It's probably not worth them making a car in reply. Too costly and not enough potential sales.

Basically the Grenadier will just be an annoyance.
why would Toyota or LR making 40,000 "grenadier type" cars be too costly for them but turn a profit for uncle Jim?
 

Beormund

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I think the way things are going currently, INEOS is in danger of bursting its own bubble, let alone the Defener's.
 

DCPU

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why would Toyota or LR making 40,000 "grenadier type" cars be too costly for them but turn a profit for uncle Jim?
I guess if the feasibility study that kicked off Projekt Grenadier was ever made public we'd have some of the answers to that question.

I reckon in there, there'd be reference to niche market, opportunity costs, no existing models to cannabalise sales from, engineering resource fully committed, appetite for risk, etc.
 
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why would Toyota or LR making 40,000 "grenadier type" cars be too costly for them but turn a profit for uncle Jim?
Because to design a new platform (and the grenadier is a totally different beast to normal SUVs), new factory/assembly line, new tooling is a really big undertaking. LR and Toyota would want to sell hundreds of thousands of cars to justify that. There just isn't enough demand to justify it.

The grenadier is quite the disruptor. I've no idea how their business model works!

That's why the new "defender" was essentially a new discovery. LR's technology, tooling, knowledge has moved on from rigid chassis and live axles.
 

DenisM

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Because to design a new platform (and the grenadier is a totally different beast to normal SUVs), new factory/assembly line, new tooling is a really big undertaking. LR and Toyota would want to sell hundreds of thousands of cars to justify that. There just isn't enough demand to justify it.

The grenadier is quite the disruptor. I've no idea how their business model works!

That's why the new "defender" was essentially a new discovery. LR's technology, tooling, knowledge has moved on from rigid chassis and live axles.
Good point... The "architcture" has changed and seems Toyota may be going the same way?... possibly explains industry 'rumours' of why the clouds are gathering over the future of Toyota's "70"series vehicles...
 
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Good point... The "architcture" has changed and seems Toyota may be going the same way?... possibly explains industry 'rumours' of why the clouds are gathering over the future of Toyota's "70"series vehicles...
Exactly. Having a whole separate line and ecosystem to support a totally different architecture is not what they do.

That's why the toyota is such an old design. Also the G-wagon too. And indeed the original defender kept on keeping on.. probably longer than it should have.

Is there enough demand for the existing players to stay in the space? Maybe Ineos will end up with a bigger market than they were expecting.

I remain convinced that the Grenadier is and will be the last clean sheet design of it's type.
 
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