Friday Musings: Will the Grenadier burst the Defender bubble?

G-Man

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Given that the LR Defender is actually a bit of a cr@p box compared to the Grenadier, I wonder how quickly the after market tuners and 'Chelsea Tractor' conversion specialists will switch allegiance once they start rolling off the production line? I bet they've already got their bulk orders in and are salivating at the prospect.

I suppose the people lining up to buy a souped up Landy with hand-stitched quilted leather interior and 22" alloys for £110k+ may be collectors, but I'd imagine an unadulterated SW would be a better long-term investment. So if they're actually buying them to drive and even off-road then I'd imagine a Grenadier would make a far better starting point for whatever ostentatious tat and/or performance upgrades they want to throw on.

As such it'll be interesting to see if the launch of the Grenadier bursts the current Defender sales market bubble, no doubt driven by the demand for clean donor vehicles. When I sold my last Defender back in 2016 I thought I'd done well getting paid the same price for it second hand as what I'd paid for it new. At that point I thought it was just a temporary nostalgia-driven blip in the market, but I'm kicking myself for selling it now. The prices people are currently asking for a stock Defender with low miles are just insane!

Here's a prime example: A 2014MY SW with 10K on the clock offered for the same price as a new Grenadier Trialmaster @£59.k and over double its original retail price :

 

Or a 2015MY Utility with 900 miles on the clock at over three times its original sticker price @£85k:

 

Or if you've got a cool £1/4 mill burning a hole in your pocket here's a 2016MY V8 with 2K on the clock:

 

emax

Prolific Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Yes, you're right. But a thing is worth what people pay for it.

And the samples which you show us are simply in mint condition. Wonderful.

Defenders are just beauties.

Still and forever.
 

emax

Prolific Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Forgot something:

"... for the same price as a new Grenadier Trialmaster @£59.k"

What do you think will the money be for? ;-)

And to answer your topic, as far as I'm concerned, I'm finally off the Defenders market. And I am for sure not the only one.

The closer the prices for used Defenders come to the Grenadier, the more people will wake up and say "Hey, a car better than a Defender, no more repairs, no more fighting rust, and more reliable? Am I an Idiot?"

I love Defenders and Series as well, they are a kind of their own. And even though a Grenadier outperforms any Defender in almost any respect be it offroad, comfort, safety, future-proofness or performance, it can not replace them. They are a legend, and their look and their history is inimitable.

But I see a personal limit at 25K € for a maintained Defender, may be 30K € for a well maintained one. Anything beyond is (for me) a reason to think at least twice. And if one can afford 50K € for a car which is intended for daily use, he/she will in the medium term not want to invest them into a mobile construction site.
 

ADVAW8S

Contributor
Founding Guard
I think the train is pulling into the station.  I know here states a company called Helderburg Defender is advertising more.  The ad is simple, are you looking for a Defender than now is time to act.  The car is a daily driver and you will be happy with it.  I have a friend who was about to put a large sums of money on a old defender build when I showed him Grenadier.  He stopped and said put a deposit down instead on Grenadier.  He beats his trucks so this will not be a look at me vehicle.  
 

G-Man

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1332719033]Forgot something:

And to answer your topic, as far as I'm concerned, I'm finally off the Defenders market. And I am for sure not the only one.

[/QUOTE]

I've owned several Defenders over the years and I loved them all dearly but it was the dealerships that eventually led to the end of my loyalty. I'm hoping that Ineos' attitude towards customer service and warranty repairs will be an improvement, as they're clearly not going to re-invent themselves as a 'Luxury SUV' brand anytime soon.
 

DaveH1

Contributor
[QUOTE username=G-Man userid=8989993 postid=1332736373]

I've owned several Defenders over the years and I loved them all dearly but it was the dealerships that eventually led to the end of my loyalty. I'm hoping that Ineos' attitude towards customer service and warranty repairs will be an improvement, as they're clearly not going to re-invent themselves as a 'Luxury SUV' brand anytime soon.[/QUOTE]

I agree about the service, we have a 2020 Evoke through our local dealer in Basingstoke, UK,  and there service is poor - the coffee, carpets and receptionist are great!
The new Landrover defender is really a case of form over function and whoever designed it didn't understand the market that made the old defender so popular. at £80k plus it can't be seen as a utility vehicle. I have my fingers crossed that the Ineos build ethos is carried through into service. My slight concern is that the local Ineos dealer to me, which is in Portsmouth, is owned by the guys who run the Landrover branch in Basingstoke ? 
 

rovie

Contributor
I share this thought with you. When I made the reservation, a dealer was suggested that was closest to where I live. In this case, it was a VW dealer who, in my opinion, is not at all familiar with off-road vehicles. There are also existing Land Rover dealers in the selection. What interest do they have in selling the Grenadier. I chose a dealer that does not sell any vehicles at all so far, but only does off-road conversions specifically for the G model. The first talks were promising.
 

Shaky

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
I think the ethos of selecting a dealer who may not be local is quite popular having spoken to other forum members and I agree. I haven’t spoken to my local dealership yet but apparently at least one of the guys there really knows his stuff and they are quite helpful. So a real bonus that they are only 15 mins up the road from me. I remember an Ineos interview where they said they wouldn’t be opening gin palaces like other manufacturers (wonder who they meant ?). I assume that Ineos will have regional managers who will be overseeing the dealerships quite closely to start with. I don’t think that Ineos will get this far only to let it be ruined bythe late smarmy car salesmen who used to work at “insert name here”, and decides who can and can’t afford a car by the “look of them” in the first 5 seconds as they walk through the door. 
 

rovie

Contributor
Shaky, you are absolutely right. My Land Rover garage is not a Land Rover Dealer, but they work on Landies for more than 40 years. I do not need a showroom and a cafe latte. I appreciate the technical know-how.
 
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