Friday Musings: Will the Grenadier burst the Defender bubble?

[Eric]

Defender sales are good in general, partly at the expense of cheaper models when competing for chips/parts on the wholesale side and partly at the expense of the Discovery in terms of retail sales.
View attachment 7806319

Shows LR may have lost their way in aiming for the high end luxury on-road market and not sticking to their roots. Would have been interesting to see the trend if there wasn't a chip issue.

 

[emax]

6% plus for the Defender just evaporates in the over all numbers (rounded backwards calculation, decimal sign is comma and thousands separator is period - due to locale):

 

[BostromCustoms]

Knowing the guys at least in the north western region Washington / Idaho / Montana.. there both conservative and curious. Jeeps are well known, spare parts, and fixing these is at least in the US pretty simple. Did not notice a single original LR Defender in the US. The Bronco ? - might be a challenger to Jeep if the quality issues are fixed. I also considered the Bronco if it would be shipped to Germany. A couple of topics such as options available in Europe and engine (I like a straight 6.. and Diesel..) stopped me from considering the Bronco further.
But for the US - the Bronco fits at least in the midwest and northern states pretty well. - The IG will be seen differently. The 4x4 Pickup is far more common and Jeep and similar as well - so IG need to fight to gather a position. And its also not a bargain. I imagine the guys there will be rather sceptic on this overseas newcomer. However I assume IG will prove itself as solid and reliable it will most certainly a vehicle that can establish a market share. BMW engines are known - but in the US - its not the Diesel - its the Petrol / Gas version that will make it.
At the end - its not the brand - but the vehicles capability / reliability and tco that will finally make the impression. And perhaps some Bronco owners may rethink their purchase. The Wrangler is piece of US - culture. Like Coca Cola or Harley Davidson. That will never beaten. IG still has a long way to become an icon. - or to succeed original Defender as an icon. But it has all the genes already to become one. Its Ineos that need to do the proper decisions - and of course what is going on at the planet.
Jeep made its success as an army vehicle
Defender or originally 110 made its success as a bush vehicle in Safaris and featured films like "four weddings and a funeral" or even better "The gods must be crazy" This is what truely a bush vehicle means. How many old LR are still operational ?
To me the US market is entirely different. Establishing an exotic sportscar like a Bugatti or a new type of well known brands there is one topic, however establishing a new brand and placing a vehicle in market dominated by Jeep and already internally challenged by Ford is a hell of work for Ineos.

Americans love new and unique vehicles, there a million Jeeps on the road and Broncos are seen everywhere. The IG will do very well.

 

[trobex]

Rising rates worldwide - JLR sill struggle as people will opt in for reliability and cheap repairs.

 

[DCPU]

Shows LR may have lost their way in aiming for the high end luxury on-road market and not sticking to their roots.

The high end is where they say they want to be now.

Wait for the decimation coming to the dealer network. Delinking Jaguar from Land Rover and cutting dealerships down to 15 to 18 nationally in UK. Opening up their own sites for direct sales and introducing new agreements.

6% plus for the Defender just evaporates in the over all numbers (rounded backwards calculation, decimal sign is comma and thousands separator is period - due to locale):

Right now JLR is more about cost cutting, reducing capacity and "right sizing" than selling more cars. Order bank (or backlog if you just speak plainly) is over 200k.

 

[emax]

Order bank (or backlog if you just speak plainly) is over 200k.

What I don't understand: If there is production capacity, it will be more expensive not to utilize it.

But the mysteries of "modern" economics have long escaped me.

 

[emax]

The high end is where they say they want to be now.

If I see where they have finally landed - Tata - I ask myself whether "Want to be" will for JLR in future be written like "wannabe" ...

Though Tata is high in the Forbes ranking as it is a simply a large corporation, it's still Indian. And what I have ever seen from there was third class at best, at least when it comes to precision and quality.

EDIT: typo

 

[Eric]

The high end is where they say they want to be now.

But luxury on-road 4 x 4s are becoming/will becoming persona non grata with the advert of green EVs, no fossil fuels, political bias, save the planet tree huggers. The big 4 x 4s will be seen as the working way to go and have there place.

 

[DaveB]

1/5th of the world's population, so between you, I, DaveB, bemax and Trobex one of us must be in this bracket.

Slightly concerned that where I'm from there's a lot of families but not a lot of surnames - off to speak to my wife and cousin/sister

Your mother, Aunty Mary?
My mothers surname was Lewis and my children were both born in Tasmania.

 

[Tazzieman]

my children were both born in Tasmania.

They have the honorary Two Heads title then. They are welcome to return anytime

 

[trobex]

Up Tamborine today and saw a New Defender (base model) and wife said, "Is that what the Grenadier is replacing". I had to explain no darling, the Grenadier is replacing what that 'once was' by showing her the old defender which was parked on the show grounds, and now she understands why I want the GREN and not any newly designed Haval/MG look alike's. Cmon contract...

 

[DaveB]

They have the honorary Two Heads title then. They are welcome to return anytime

W neck jumpers

 

[Tazzieman]

W neck jumpers

What even are they?

 

[DaveB]

What even are they?

They are like V neck jumpers but for people with two heads

 

[Tazzieman]

They are like V neck jumpers but for people with two heads
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Ah OK! I thought you might have had a clumsy moment and typed the W by accident.
Neck jumpers eh? You would have needed those living in Launceston

 

[RoyalWulff]

Speaking of fighting rust, what is the body of the IG made of? My biggest issue with current Defenders is that they feel like plastic.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

They are like V neck jumpers but for people with two heads

We're going a bit Fortean here @DaveB

 

[AnD3rew]

Speaking of fighting rust, what is the body of the IG made of? My biggest issue with current Defenders is that they feel like plastic.

Most of it is galvanised steel. Doors and bonnet Are aluminium

 

[DaveB]

Speaking of fighting rust, what is the body of the IG made of? My biggest issue with current Defenders is that they feel like plastic.

Body is steel
Doors & bonnet aluminium

 

[DCPU]

Speaking of fighting rust, what is the body of the IG made of? My biggest issue with current Defenders is that they feel like plastic.

Ineos have thoughtfully provided some untreated areas so that you can wean yourself carefully off the rust treatment processes and chemicals ~ don't want to go cold turkey from the get go: