does the ADAS & CAM actually work?

[Sean326]

Has anyone actually had the AEB kick in and prevent an accident?
I'm used to active ADAS like in my lexus RXH+ and Toyota tacoma.
I know the CAM doesn't see the road signs and is mostly wrong with the posted speed signs, lots of pics of that.
The manual says the cam will activate the AEB system 2 seconds before impact, then it says "don't test this".... so i tested it, it failed.
I made a video but it won't Upload so I took some screen shots.
So does anyone have any experience with this system actually working the way they describe?

 

[HereinDaRockies]

I doubt its safety features are any good, relative to the industry.

2022 Ineos Grenadier may not earn five-star safety rating

The Land Rover Defender-inspired off-roader won’t have a crash rating, unlike most other new cars sold in Australia.

www.drive.com.au

That being said, your test should use a blow up vehicle. I double the software is programmed to recognize boxes. Remember - there is no radar system in the Ineos. It's purely computer vision - The obstacle needs to be recognizable as a vehicle.

Upload the video man! We need the enjoyment of seeing it running through a stack of boxes. Also major balls for conducting this test towards the garage!!

 

[Tenac]

I doubt its safety features are any good, relative to the industry.


That being said, your test should use a blow up vehicle. I double the software is programmed to recognize boxes. Remember - there is no radar system in the Ineos. It's purely computer vision - The obstacle needs to be recognizable as a vehicle.

For the US the AEB system must be able to recognize more than just a vehicle. Think about people and cyclists and other objects like the side of a building. I think the real question here is what speeds does the Ineos system actually work at??? Without radar and other sensors I would assume processing speed would also impact the ability for it to operate at higher speeds. I don't remember where I was reading this at one point when these systems started to come online but they used to have a minimum speed of 3-5mph before they actually engaged. I think the parking sensors take over control at the lower speeds.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Has anyone actually had the AEB kick in and prevent an accident?
I'm used to active ADAS like in my lexus RXH+ and Toyota tacoma.
I know the CAM doesn't see the road signs and is mostly wrong with the posted speed signs, lots of pics of that.
The manual says the cam will activate the AEB system 2 seconds before impact, then it says "don't test this".... so i tested it, it failed.
I made a video but it won't Upload so I took some screen shots.
So does anyone have any experience with this system actually working the way they describe?

This is hilarious - has to be a first. I would have put my money on some dude from Nevada or South Africa - not Bucks County. I have to rethink my entire viewpoint on that now. Respect.

 

[Sean326]

I doubt its safety features are any good, relative to the industry.

2022 Ineos Grenadier may not earn five-star safety rating

The Land Rover Defender-inspired off-roader won’t have a crash rating, unlike most other new cars sold in Australia.

www.drive.com.au

That being said, your test should use a blow up vehicle. I double the software is programmed to recognize boxes. Remember - there is no radar system in the Ineos. It's purely computer vision - The obstacle needs to be recognizable as a vehicle.

Upload the video man! We need the enjoyment of seeing it running through a stack of boxes. Also major balls for conducting this test towards the garage!!
View attachment 7900134

I tried to upload the video several times... the site chokes on it even edited down to 5 seconds.
Regarding the software and the cam capabilities, I know the software and the cam is incapable of discriminating between a 25mph sign and a 55mph sign.... i've got lots of photos of this.
So i doubt the issue with the AEB was not picking out the logo of a vehicle on my solid vehicle sized cardboard wall... Its not lidar, it should have seen a solid vehicle size wall about 6' high and 7' wide and applied the brakes. Based on the proven low functionality of the software/hardware of the system i suspect it would be just as effective against boxes or a Rolls Royce Wraith.

 

[Sean326]

For the US the AEB system must be able to recognize more than just a vehicle. Think about people and cyclists and other objects like the side of a building. I think the real question here is what speeds does the Ineos system actually work at??? Without radar and other sensors I would assume processing speed would also impact the ability for it to operate at higher speeds. I don't remember where I was reading this at one point when these systems started to come online but they used to have a minimum speed of 3-5mph before they actually engaged. I think the parking sensors take over control at the lower speeds.

I hit the boxes at about 14mph per the Grens speedometer... I wanted to give myself some space between the engagement of first auto braking, then manual baraking and eventually the garage door braking with the $80K Lexus and the $100K S-500 beyond that.
My wifes only comment after 35 years of these antics was "you at least could have moved my car out of the potential impact zone"

 

[landmannnn]

I tried to upload the video several times... the site chokes on it even edited down to 5 seconds.
Regarding the software and the cam capabilities, I know the software and the cam is incapable of discriminating between a 25mph sign and a 55mph sign.... i've got lots of photos of this.
So i doubt the issue with the AEB was not picking out the logo of a vehicle on my solid vehicle sized cardboard wall... Its not lidar, it should have seen a solid vehicle size wall about 6' high and 7' wide and applied the brakes. Based on the proven low functionality of the software/hardware of the system i suspect it would be just as effective against boxes or a Rolls Royce Wraith.

The best way to show video is to upload it to YouTube and then link to it on here.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I hit the boxes at about 14mph per the Grens speedometer... I wanted to give myself some space between the engagement of first auto braking, then manual baraking and eventually the garage door braking with the $80K Lexus and the $100K S-500 beyond that.
My wifes only comment after 35 years of these antics was "you at least could have moved my car out of the potential impact zone"

This story just keeps getting more awesome - hold on, I need to get my popcorn. You’ve got 1)lack of situational awareness, 2)lack of any normal instinct for self-preservation, and 3)an annoyed wife. You check all the proper Grenadier owner credential boxes. Brilliant.

 

[Sean326]

This story just keeps getting more awesome - hold on, I need to get my popcorn. You’ve got 1)lack of situational awareness, 2)lack of any normal instinct for self-preservation, and 3)an annoyed wife. You check all the proper Grenadier owner credential boxes. Brilliant.

I may have an issue with #1, I think I always know what I'm doing and the possible worst case scenarios. Having said that, yes i've had hundreds of stitches, dozens.. and dozens of broken bones, cumulative weeks in the ER and probably cumulative months in the hospital and the odd tropical parasite/disease that defies identification from cumulative years of remote off grid diving sites. #2 is dead on, my day job is real estate development, maintenance and construction. I am constantly getting equipment and people into places where its hard to even walk let alone drive. I also have the usual hobbies, Ice hockey, deep decompression wreck diving, hunting, skydiving, motorcycles, horses, fast boats and am still a lifelong first responder, firefighter, EMT and currently water rescue, dive recovery officer. #3.. at times but we've been together for 45 years, she has wonderful bedside manner and nursing skills. She does have (aside from a halo) higher blood pressure and stress levels than me...
Apparently i'm a carrier of stress and high blood pressure but not afflicted by it .

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Universe - “this is a bad idea - you shouldn’t be in this situation.”

Grenadier owners - “now hold on a sec - I think I’ve got the right size Torx bit for that.”

 

[INEOS OG]

This story just keeps getting more awesome - hold on, I need to get my popcorn. You’ve got 1)lack of situational awareness, 2)lack of any normal instinct for self-preservation, and 3)an annoyed wife. You check all the proper Grenadier owner credential boxes. Brilli

This story just keeps getting more awesome - hold on, I need to get my popcorn. You’ve got 1)lack of situational awareness, 2)lack of any normal instinct for self-preservation, and 3)an annoyed wife. You check all the proper Grenadier owner credential boxes. Brilliant.

 

[drinkmorejava]

For the US the AEB system must be able to recognize more than just a vehicle. Think about people and cyclists and other objects like the side of a building. I think the real question here is what speeds does the Ineos system actually work at??? Without radar and other sensors I would assume processing speed would also impact the ability for it to operate at higher speeds. I don't remember where I was reading this at one point when these systems started to come online but they used to have a minimum speed of 3-5mph before they actually engaged. I think the parking sensors take over control at the lower speeds.

The US does not require AEB. In 2029 when it will be required, it is only required to detect vehicles and pedestrians.

I'm not at all surprised Adas failed here. It is not in any way trained to prevent hitting arbitrary objects. It's not a radar measuring actual distance or an Xbox kinect trying to map what it sees; it's just a dumb camera with some image processing of yesteryear.

That said, it has responded somewhat appropriately a few times for me, and the false positive rate on it is much better than the other included garbage Adas systems, so at least it's not objectively dangerous.

 

[Sean326]

again, i can argue the first one, the other two are pretty much spot on!

 

[Green Gren]

While this is highly entertaining when car computer systems fail, all this does is reinforce my hatred for these “safety features”. One of the main reasons, besides the obvious off road capabilities, I wanted a grenadier in the first place is that it was less weighed down with modern car computer system.

My last car, Subaru Outback Wilderness, had the AEB features and was waaaaay too sensitive and would slam on the brakes in urban traffic all the time. Almost gave me whiplash multiple times from its idea of safety. Not to mention every single vehicle function was in a multi-layer menu on the poorly designed infotainment system. I thought I’d get used to it over time, but needed up hating it a lot by the time I traded it in.

I guess it’s all perspective when it comes to the benefits of a “smart” car. I personally want as much mechanical and as little tech as possible.

Side note: None of this shit would be necessary of drivers would just drive instead of looking at their phones or be caught up dickin’ around with infotainment screens.

 

[Sean326]

The US does not require AEB. In 2029 when it will be required, it is only required to detect vehicles and pedestrians.

I'm not at all surprised Adas failed here. It is not in any way trained to prevent hitting arbitrary objects. It's not a radar measuring actual distance or an Xbox kinect trying to map what it sees; it's just a dumb camera with some image processing of yesteryear.

That said, it has responded somewhat appropriately a few times for me, and the false positive rate on it is much better than the other included garbage Adas systems, so at least it's not objectively dangerous.

I'm pretty good with understanding mechanics and systems, its a major part of my daily job and i'm pretty successful at it. I'd have a hard time buying that at the same time this is a dumb and basic system, yet it can discriminate between a 6'by7' cardboard wall or a brick wall or the back of a box truck, and if it could, I don't think it should. I only have a 1k miles on my '24 Gren and only drove through 1 cardboard wall, but i can say that the active braking in my '25 lexus and '25 Tacoma is evident within a mile. I know one is active and the other AEB but still in 1K miles and 1 cardboard wall i've got no reason to believe it'll work when I need it. If this was a $40k car i'd cut it some slack but mine was $90k and others at the dealer were more, one lots more. So in a vehicle thats competing at a price point of high other very high end vehicles it should have systems that are competitive with them.

 

[Green Gren]

I'm pretty good with understanding mechanics and systems, its a major part of my daily job and i'm pretty successful at it. I'd have a hard time buying that at the same time this is a dumb and basic system, yet it can discriminate between a 6'by7' cardboard wall or a brick wall or the back of a box truck, and if it could, I don't think it should. I only have a 1k miles on my '24 Gren and only drove through 1 cardboard wall, but i can say that the active braking in my '25 lexus and '25 Tacoma is evident within a mile. I know one is active and the other AEB but still in 1K miles and 1 cardboard wall i've got no reason to believe it'll work when I need it. If this was a $40k car i'd cut it some slack but mine was $90k and others at the dealer were more, one lots more. So in a vehicle thats competing at a price point of high other very high end vehicles it should have systems that are competitive with them.

Or you can think of it in modern luxury/sports car terms. You pay more for less, ie Porsche Carrara T, less tech features, higher price than stock. You pay for the mechanical bits and capabilities for a specific purpose. In my case, again just me, I would pay more to have less intrusion from the car and just be able to drive not operate an appliance. If I wanted all the tech, I’d have bought a Lexus GX Overtrail and had to figure out how to keep the luxury interior clean, which is a different problem.

 

[DoubleDoom]

Regarding the software and the cam capabilities, I know the software and the cam is incapable of discriminating between a 25mph sign and a 55mph sign.... i've got lots of photos of this.

The cam works fine in the UK with speed signs. The database is relatively weak in the UK (at least in my area), and often you need to wait for the next sign for it to be corrected.

Maybe your camera isn't calibrated if both sign reading and AEB is not working?

The AEB has lit up for me a few times (also in several cars in the same place). Near us is a bend on a hillside ridge with a layby where cars are often parked. From a camera point of view, the parked cars appear to be right in front of the car. So, the AEB lights up. the IG and the other cars have never done anything other than light up the warning.

 

[Tenac]

The US does not require AEB. In 2029 when it will be required, it is only required to detect vehicles and pedestrians.

I'm not at all surprised Adas failed here. It is not in any way trained to prevent hitting arbitrary objects. It's not a radar measuring actual distance or an Xbox kinect trying to map what it sees; it's just a dumb camera with some image processing of yesteryear.

That said, it has responded somewhat appropriately a few times for me, and the false positive rate on it is much better than the other included garbage Adas systems, so at least it's not objectively dangerous.

Yeah exactly that is the deadline to have it by but vehicles with it current must be able to meet their guidance regarding AEB. Which really isn't too much anyway. I'm sure there is a ramp up or glidepath to when a OEM has to meet and prove all requirements. Seems like Ineos will have to end up producing a more complex system to get it actually working. However I feel a vision system should be able to detect if an object is not moving based on the object getting larger in the field of view while one is moving??