Diff locks.

[DCPU]

I have a small tractor with the same system. You need some lateral movement to line up the holes, i.e. steering input.

I don't understand why lateral movement is required, the way I've seen it demonstrated it's a radial motion with a side load from the pins that makes the locking ring engage.

View: https://youtu.be/nT_H6rpd-Ck

The issue with the Gren is that rather than illuminate the ’locked’ indicator light the moment the diff is energised it flashes to say ‘energised’ but then goes solid once the diff is engaged. However it doesn‘t monitor actual diff engagement but instead uses the wheel rotation monitoring that is part of the ABS system. If it detects that the wheels are rotating at the same rate it assumes that the diff is engaged. This will take a small distance to achieve.

What you are describing is what I've read previously but seems a pretty odd/redundant way of doing things. Wouldn't it be more accurate to monitor the lock up ring movement into the housing to confirm full lock has been achieved.

So for those of you experiencing problems, I suggest trying this: Engage the centre and rear diff, then drive whilst steering from side to side, this will help the diff to engage.

Does it actually help the diff engage or rather just help the poor feedback required to tell you that it's engaged? Within a few feet of it starting to flash it should be engaged, irrespective of what the light tells you.

 

[Jean Mercier]

I would like to add something... I was alone, nobody to help me, "turn your wheels like this" ... and I forgot a thing: the "attitude" off-road menu gives you the wheel angle!!!!

Next time I will sure use it!

 

[DCPU]

I tried all three locks yesterday on soft ground.

rear diff lock -> took me some time (25 meters)
Front diff lock -> some more… (25 meters )
Disengagement rear and front -> took some time (30 meters)

Again, the issue for me is whether they are locked within a one wheel rotation but the system has a lagging Indicator that takes too much time to confirm; unlocking can be more of an issue with any sort of drivetrain stress fighting the release springs to unlock but again should be with a few wheel rotations, especially if you reverse direction and "unwind" the stress.

 

[DCPU]

Then in rear, trying to disengage the front and rear diff locks, I managed to damage one of my rear lights, damned ...

Bad luck, I don't suppose you have the bits of plastic and maybe they can be glued back into place?

And would a product like this have helped in your situation?

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[Krabby]

The parts crew will dispatch a new one in a jiffy.

 

[Jean Mercier]

The parts crew will dispatch a new one in a jiffy.

Some companies would do, Ineos perhaps, but I will have to wait one year or more I guess.

Bad luck, I don't suppose you have the bits of plastic and maybe they can be glued back into place?

And would a product like this have helped in your situation?

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I looked and think some are inside the plastic cover, but I will have to think how to remove them. And thanks for the tip.

 

[emax]

My locking worked with side to side steering. But it took to long in my opinion.

Not only that. When you lock your diff(s), you usually do so because you are stuck or in a difficult situation. That hardly seems like a scenario where you would be going left and right at will to me. That's ridiculous.

 

[stickshifter]

Not only that. When you lock your diff(s), you usually do so because you are stuck or in a difficult situation. That hardly seems like a scenario where you would be going left and right at will to me. That's ridiculous.

Agreed. I can't think of a trail within 200 miles of me on which I could go left to right while trying to engage lockers - unless we are talking about inches. Many of the forest roads are wider, but I have never needed to engage a locker on a forest road. Most of the actual "trails" are "Jeep" trails that are quite narrow, and many with a cliff wall on one side and a drop-off on the other.

 

[Tom D]

I don't understand why lateral movement is required, the way I've seen it demonstrated it's a radial motion with a side load from the pins that makes the locking ring engage.

View: https://youtu.be/nT_H6rpd-Ck



What you are describing is what I've read previously but seems a pretty odd/redundant way of doing things. Wouldn't it be more accurate to monitor the lock up ring movement into the housing to confirm full lock has been achieved.

Does it actually help the diff engage or rather just help the poor feedback required to tell you that it's engaged? Within a few feet of it starting to flash it should be engaged, irrespective of what the light tells you.

Yes it would have been better to monitor the lockup position. But they didn’t!
They should have just set it to be energised.. light on. Not energised.. light off. You’d know if it was not engaged by the way the car behaved. That’s how it is on my tractor. Just a rocker switch on or off.. you know its on when it doesn’t want to steer.

 

[Tom D]

Not only that. When you lock your diff(s), you usually do so because you are stuck or in a difficult situation. That hardly seems like a scenario where you would be going left and right at will to me. That's ridiculous.

While thats true, in my experience its better to engage the diff lock BEFORE you get stuck. Once you’ve dug a hole the lockers might not help anyway.

 

[rovie]

Thanks for the hint. I will try it later. As I said, since the front differential can not be locked (notice in the display), I assume that the rear is not locked. I am worry about the red warning light. I will report back then.

The way these lockers work the teeth on the locker need to mesh with holes in a plate. If they aren’t lined up then it wont engage immediately. I have a small tractor with the same system. You need some lateral movement to line up the holes, i.e. steering input.

The issue with the Gren is that rather than illuminate the ’locked’ indicator light the moment the diff is energised it flashes to say ‘energised’ but then goes solid once the diff is engaged. However it doesn‘t monitor actual diff engagement but instead uses the wheel rotation monitoring that is part of the ABS system. If it detects that the wheels are rotating at the same rate it assumes that the diff is engaged. This will take a small distance to achieve.

So for those of you experiencing problems, I suggest trying this: Engage the centre and rear diff, then drive whilst steering from side to side, this will help the diff to engage. The same goes for disengaging it. If you are stuck in ruts and can’t go from side to side a small amount of wheel slip will do the same thing. However lots of wheel spin and power input will damage the diff lock as it engages.

Try this and post how you get on. If it still won’t work whilst steering from side to side then you have a problem.

So, now I'm back from my test drive in the woods and fields and I was successful. Little by little:
I parked the vehicle this morning with a red warning light in the rear differential lock display and a yellow triangle with an exclamation mark along with the rear differential lock fault warning and no LED lit in the switch. For me, red means stop and don't drive any further for the time being.
This evening (after about 10 hours) I started the Grenadier again. Not a single error message!
I went off-road again, same procedure as this morning: off-road mode, reduction, centre differential lock, so far ok.
Then at slow speed (approx. 8-10 km/h) pressed the rear differential button for 1 sec, the LED in the switch flashes and in a few seconds it burns constantly and in addition the sybol lights up in the display. Then the same with the front lock. Here too, after initial flashing, the LED lights up permanently and the symbol appears.
To unlock the front, I pressed the button and it blinked. However, the symbol at the front did not disappear. The same with the rear, the symbol did not go out there either, although I drove for at least 30 metres. Then I released the centre differential lock and drove on. After about 5-8 metres, all 3 symbols were gone.
I repeated the whole thing again with the same result.
I tried the left and right steering for a longer time. From my point of view, it didn't help.
I wrote in the High-Low thread that the reduction was sometimes very difficult to shift.

 

[AnD3rew]

While thats true, in my experience its better to engage the diff lock BEFORE you get stuck. Once you’ve dug a hole the lockers might not help anyway.

Yes you do have to adapt your driving style with these e lockers if you are used to auto lockers or air lockers. I have this Eaton locker on my current vehicle and it also doesn’t engage immediately you flick the switch. If you think you may need it, engage it before you get to the section. Needs some pre planning

 

[rovie]

Yes you do have to adapt your driving style with these e lockers if you are used to auto lockers or air lockers. I have this Eaton locker on my current vehicle and it also doesn’t engage immediately you flick the switch. If you think you may need it, engage it before you get to the section. Needs some pre planning

When I go into damp areas, I turn it on earlier. With the Defender and Disco, and especially the Series 2, it was still possible just before or even in it.

 

[DaveB]

Not only that. When you lock your diff(s), you usually do so because you are stuck or in a difficult situation. That hardly seems like a scenario where you would be going left and right at will to me. That's ridiculous.

The idea is to lock your diffs before you need them, not after you need them.
In many cases if you had them locked you would not get stuck or in a difficult situation.
However I agree it should be easier.

 

[globalgregors]

feedback required to tell you that it's engaged

Yes, precisely - I’d also investigate the issue as being one of failure to confirm the lock rather than failure to lock.

 

[globalgregors]

Well, that's a casuality, I tested everything on a short track in Austria today: Here we go (navigation app) did send me through the shortest road, shortcut, about 200m up in the woods, no car had passed there in years, not useful, there is an asphalt road around it, slightly longer.
And there was a trunk of several meters, thickness of my leg, or thickness of the forearm of @Tazzieman, more or less parallel to the track and other branches and mud. Ideal situation to test the stuff.

Central diff lock in high was hard but quite OK to engage. I had to move the car several times to engage the "low" position, a meter or two backwards and forward again, and trying to engage again, indeed in neutral position.

I didn’t succeed to pass the obstacle. moved somme smaller pieces of wood. I then engaged rear diff, it took also some moving of the car, but it got engaged. Still no succes. I engaged the front diff lock, quite easily (beginner's luck?). And succeeded in moving two meters forward. Nice. But I gave up. Testing the diff locks was OK for me, and the time I would loose moving some smaller wooden trunks was not worth the effort.

Then in rear, trying to disengage the front and rear diff locks, I managed to damage one of my rear lights, damned ...
View attachment 7813765
It took quite some time before all the diff lock lights went out after disengaging, a minute or so (didn't chronometer).

Perhaps I should pass my driving licence again, because yesterday I didn't damage my roof ... almost not:
View attachment 7813766
Disappointed, yes for the damage, but the experience was ok. I have also a small but long scratch from yesterday crossing another vehicle in the forest in Austria. This I don't mind, will not be the last.

Well done @Jean Mercier - getting out there and learning your vehicle. Delighted that you’re sharing the experience!

These situations have two aspects to them: decisions you make on approach to the obstacle, and performance of the vehicle. These are obviously in dialogue with each other through the manoeuvre. Another pair of eyes outside the passenger cabin definitely helps.

If you take a photo also of the obstacle it might assist the armchair quarterbacking from those of us vicariously in the woods with you. Enjoy!

 

[ADVAW8S]

So, now I'm back from my test drive in the woods and fields and I was successful. Little by little:
I parked the vehicle this morning with a red warning light in the rear differential lock display and a yellow triangle with an exclamation mark along with the rear differential lock fault warning and no LED lit in the switch. For me, red means stop and don't drive any further for the time being.
This evening (after about 10 hours) I started the Grenadier again. Not a single error message!
I went off-road again, same procedure as this morning: off-road mode, reduction, centre differential lock, so far ok.
Then at slow speed (approx. 8-10 km/h) pressed the rear differential button for 1 sec, the LED in the switch flashes and in a few seconds it burns constantly and in addition the sybol lights up in the display. Then the same with the front lock. Here too, after initial flashing, the LED lights up permanently and the symbol appears.
To unlock the front, I pressed the button and it blinked. However, the symbol at the front did not disappear. The same with the rear, the symbol did not go out there either, although I drove for at least 30 metres. Then I released the centre differential lock and drove on. After about 5-8 metres, all 3 symbols were gone.
I repeated the whole thing again with the same result.
I tried the left and right steering for a longer time. From my point of view, it didn't help.
I wrote in the High-Low thread that the reduction was sometimes very difficult to shift.

If I remember correctly, it has been said by Ineos, the center lock rules them all. Meaning as soon as you take off the center lock, the front and rear diff lock automatically disengaged.

 

[stickshifter]

The idea is to lock your diffs before you need them, not after you need them.
In many cases if you had them locked you would not get stuck or in a difficult situation.
However I agree it should be easier.

Ideally, yeah, but that sounds a bit like something you might read in a manual. Off-road tutorials will tell you to identify an obstacle in advance, lock up one or both diffs, and then tackle the obstacle. Sounds good.

In practice, it can get more complicated. Take for example, the many narrow trails around here that climb steeply, but involve lots of switchbacks. You sure as shit can't make it through a switchback with the front locked up, and rarely can you make it with the rear locked up. So you need to be unlocked for the tight turns.

But you want to maximize traction and minimize tire spin on the straight sections - especially when it is both technical and dodgy (i.e. a drop off to one side). So you want your rear locked up, and possibly even the front.

In this situation, you are locking and unlocking at least the rear differential. Zig zagging, going forward and back, and waiting for Mercury to align with Venus won't cut it. For this kind of driving you need an air locker or a manual (cable activated) locker. Both these options lock up positively and pretty much immediately. In addition, neither will unlock if you go from forward to reverse. Both options unlock immediately with no movement of the vehicle required. I was really happy with ARB air lockers in my Jeep, but I preferred the manual / cable lockers in my Dodge 2500 (no air lines, no O-rings). I think old G-Wagens had something similar, but I'm no G-Wagen expert.

 

[DaveB]

Ideally, yeah, but that sounds a bit like something you might read in a manual. Off-road tutorials will tell you to identify an obstacle in advance, lock up one or both diffs, and then tackle the obstacle. Sounds good.

In practice, it can get more complicated. Take for example, the many narrow trails around here that climb steeply, but involve lots of switchbacks. You sure as shit can't make it through a switchback with the front locked up, and rarely can you make it with the rear locked up. So you need to be unlocked for the tight turns.

But you want to maximize traction and minimize tire spin on the straight sections - especially when it is both technical and dodgy (i.e. a drop off to one side). So you want your rear locked up, and possibly even the front.

In this situation, you are locking and unlocking at least the rear differential. Zig zagging, going forward and back, and waiting for Mercury to align with Venus won't cut it. For this kind of driving you need an air locker or a manual (cable activated) locker. Both these options lock up positively and pretty much immediately. In addition, neither will unlock if you go from forward to reverse. Both options unlock immediately with no movement of the vehicle required. I was really happy with ARB air lockers in my Jeep, but I preferred the manual / cable lockers in my Dodge 2500 (no air lines, no O-rings). I think old G-Wagens had something similar, but I'm no G-Wagen expert.

Yes there are always exceptions to the rule.
That's when you need to decide which is the right vehicle/setup for your use case.

 

[rovie]

If I remember correctly, it has been said by Ineos, the center lock rules them all. Meaning as soon as you take off the center lock, the front and rear diff lock automatically disengaged.

Yes, that's right. And that also worked.