Diff locks.

[oldfarmer]

The concept of the IG was that it would be simple and unbreakable. Why then have they chosen complex electronic controls for the axle diff locks rather than levers as in the early G-Wagen?. These were simple and bomb proof. Axels frequently covered in mud, dust, water, snow etc. are not friendly places for electrics.

 

[Eric]

The concept of the IG was that it would be simple and unbreakable. Why then have they chosen complex electronic controls for the axle diff locks rather than levers as in the early G-Wagen?. These were simple and bomb proof. Axels frequently covered in mud, dust, water, snow etc. are not friendly places for electrics.

Hi and welcome.
Which part of the county are you? Me born in Barrow, lived in the south for 40 years, then onto Cockermouth and Carlisle before moving over the Border.

 

[AnD3rew]

The concept of the IG was that it would be simple and unbreakable. Why then have they chosen complex electronic controls for the axle diff locks rather than levers as in the early G-Wagen?. These were simple and bomb proof. Axels frequently covered in mud, dust, water, snow etc. are not friendly places for electrics.

The actual locking part of it isn’t complex, it’s basically just an on and off electromagnet. Arguably a wire is no more vulnerable to damage than a cable or linkage and is at least as easily repairable.

 

[ryket]

There are a lot of electronics in the Grenadier. The question is, are they reliable? Time will tell. Mechanical doesn't mean good or unbreakable (else we would still be using carburetors...) - often the opposite is true.

I agree that there's a weird mix of electric and mechanical components in the vehicle that doesn't always make sense or align with the marketing. For example, no heated windscreen because "reliability" but all critical engine/speed data routed to a single point of failure central screen.

But if you can look past that, it is what it is and will hopefully be a good reliable 4x4. This is definitely not an unbreakable vehicle though.

 

[trobex]

There are a lot of electronics in the Grenadier. The question is, are they reliable? Time will tell. Mechanical doesn't mean good or unbreakable (else we would still be using carburetors...) - often the opposite is true.

I agree that there's a weird mix of electric and mechanical components in the vehicle that doesn't always make sense or align with the marketing. For example, no heated windscreen because "reliability" but all critical engine/speed data routed to a single point of failure central screen.

But if you can look past that, it is what it is and will hopefully be a good reliable 4x4. This is definitely not an unbreakable vehicle though.

Anything can be broken - life teaches this lesson time and time again. Centre diff is mechanical and F/R electronic - seems reasonable. I never read, but is the GREN F/R diffs able to be individually selected or they both on/off?

 

[Krabby]

Anything can be broken - life teaches this lesson time and time again. Centre diff is mechanical and F/R electronic - seems reasonable. I never read, but is the GREN F/R diffs able to be individually selected or they both on/off?

Rear can be activated alone but the front requires the rear.

 

[Tom D]

It would be impossible to build an electronics free vehicle these days. So I guess we just have to accept some.. The grenadier has way les than most other cars, doesn’t the new defender have 17 ecu’s?

As for the diff locks most tractors have used electronic lockers for the last 20 years or so, they don’t seem to be an issue..

 

[Ovrland Bill]

It would be impossible to build an electronics free vehicle these days. So I guess we just have to accept some.. The grenadier has way les than most other cars, doesn’t the new defender have 17 ecu’s?

As for the diff locks most tractors have used electronic lockers for the last 20 years or so, they don’t seem to be an issue..

And I would think that Grenadier axle maker Carraro (sp) knows a thing or two about tractors!

 

[DCPU]

Rear can be activated alone but the front requires the rear.

I thought from the recent "tutorial" then you needed a whole host of confirmation signals from the centre diff being locked, low range selected, etc.

All strictly unnecessary when related to the task in hand and introducing points of failure for no good reason.

 

[oldfarmer]

Hi and welcome.
Which part of the county are you? Me born in Barrow, lived in the south for 40 years, then onto Cockermouth and Carlisle before moving over the Border.

Hi. I live between sedbergh and kirkby stephen. Good Grenadier testing country. Normally the vehicle is stationary when the diff locks are engaged but it appears the IG is different. There must be a complex mechanism to ensure the two wheels on the axle are rotating at the same speed before the axle diff locks engage.

 

[Spjnr]

It would be impossible to build an electronics free vehicle these days. So I guess we just have to accept some.. The grenadier has way les than most other cars, doesn’t the new defender have 17 ecu’s?

As for the diff locks most tractors have used electronic lockers for the last 20 years or so, they don’t seem to be an issue..

The new Defender has 85....

nothing wrong with E lockers, as mentioned, cables are as vulnerable as a wire

 

[Stu_Barnes]

The concept of the IG was that it would be simple and unbreakable. Why then have they chosen complex electronic controls for the axle diff locks rather than levers as in the early G-Wagen?. These were simple and bomb proof. Axels frequently covered in mud, dust, water, snow etc. are not friendly places for electrics.

Hi @oldfarmer welcome to the forum, great first post and one I'm sure that will get the pulse racing on quite a few

Thread moved to Transmission & Axles forum.

 

[CountyV8]

I thought from the recent "tutorial" then you needed a whole host of confirmation signals from the centre diff being locked, low range selected, etc.

All strictly unnecessary when related to the task in hand and introducing points of failure for no good reason.

They have changed the instructions in the manual.

 

[AnD3rew]

I thought from the recent "tutorial" then you needed a whole host of confirmation signals from the centre diff being locked, low range selected, etc.

All strictly unnecessary when related to the task in hand and introducing points of failure for no good reason.

Yes, I think if there is valid critical here it isn’t the fact that e lockers are used, every system has it’s vulnerabilities, e-lockers no more than average. It’s the execution. Putting in place unnecessary steps and what seems unnecessary interlocks to prevent front being engaged without rear. Arguably the biggest potential error was eliminating the confirmation sensors for the locking, whilst this was done in the right spirit of reducing failure point it now means in some situations a faff about trying to break traction so wheel speed sensors can detect the lock instead. Sometimes less isn’t more.

 

[CB]

I viewed a video where the front lockers were engaged and not the rear lockers. While powering up a hill and over some rocks the front differential broke. The owner made a point of saying it was his fault because he thought he could make the climb with just the front differential locked and not the rear which put too much unnecessary strain on the front differential trying to pull the full weight of the vehicle. I'm no expert but this may be a partial explanation as to why the Grenadier is set up this way.

 

[DCPU]

Can you link the video ~ I'm trying to think what would have happened if the front diff was unlocked. It would still get 50% of the available torque (assuming centre diff lock locked) but instead of driving both wheels evenly, it may have spun up one wheel more. I'm still seeing a snapped halfshaft situation if the vehicle is bouncing.

 

[DCPU]

They have changed the instructions in the manual.

Can you say more?

 

[CB]

Can you link the video ~ I'm trying to think what would have happened if the front diff was unlocked. It would still get 50% of the available torque (assuming centre diff lock locked) but instead of driving both wheels evenly, it may have spun up one wheel more. I'm still seeing a snapped halfshaft situation if the vehicle is bouncing.

The front diff was locked and not the rear. I believe you are correct when you say the drive shaft broke. I believe the point he was trying to make was lock them both. It was a YouTube video on Matt's Off-road Recover. It was actually his new off-road wrecker that sustained the damage. Like I said, I am not an expert.

 

[Wayneos]

The front diff was locked and not the rear. I believe you are correct when you say the drive shaft broke. I believe the point he was trying to make was lock them both. It was a YouTube video on Matt's Off-road Recover. It was actually his new off-road wrecker that sustained the damage. Like I said, I am not an expert.

That thing is a BEAST! He snapped a couple of shafts in the build up to the wrecker games. I'd say the wrecker will keep breaking stuff ie. 'remain in development' for a while yet! That's half the fun of his channel!

 

[trobex]

Rear diff lock is normally built stronger than the front in most 4X4 set ups. I thought for some reason the GREN had both front and rear diffs lock together with no option to have them independent, but I saw or read that wrong, I think. If it is Back 1st and Front 2nd than that makes sense and to be honest with Elocks it's a similar config to several other makers.