Diff breathers

[Disco Dave]

Yes, how is water prevented from coming in through the axle seals when the axle is cooled and creates a vacuum? Axle seals are usually sealed from the oil side, are the IG seals also sealed from the water side? Maybe not, as there would be no lubrication on the water side, so the seals would quickly wear out.

 

[DCPU]

Perhaps some better photos of the rear axle breather:

 

[DCPU]

A few to choose from:

BREATHER PLUGS - Nostrali

www.nostrali.it

 

[DCPU]

Should have said this is the front one:

 

[DCPU]

And if it's a standard one from their range, it looks like this one:

 

[Tom109]

And if it's a standard one from their range, it looks like this one:
View attachment 7816213

So still needs remote routing, and G3/4 is quite large.

 

[Heater]

I wonder why they aren’t extended via a hose into a higher level, e.g., rear tail light area or engine bay? Should be easy enough to do with some clamps and fuel line. However the transfer case is usually the most difficult to access, at least in a Jeep.

 

[TheDocAUS]

UNIVERSAL DIFF KITS (DIFFS, TRANSMISSION & TRANSFER CASE) - HARROP AND ARB - AUSTRALIA

I made some inquires in Australia from makers of two universal diff breather kits on whether they would work on the INEOS. First the Harrop version, and second the competing ARB version.

Harrop responded:
“I can confirm that the Universal Breather Kit will work with your vehicle, although you may possible need to purchase an extra length of breather hose which we will be able to provide to you.

I would suggest purchasing the kit as is as you may not need to additional length of Breather Hose.”

ARB responded:
“Our diff breather kit is very versatile and will definitely work with the Ineos, however you may need to change the fittings that plumb into the diff where the breather attaches.”

The provided links are to the main websites. I believe if you shop around you can get the Kits cheaper at third party suppliers.

Piranha Offroad diff breathers
Piranha Offroad also make a universal diff breather kit but I made no inquires. Their kit is for 2 breathers, the others handle 4. So, double the price if you need 4 breathers. Piranha also supplies a bracket and other diff breather accessories. Piranha seem to offer the most accessories for various model cars, but no INEOS parts.

More choices
Other suppliers include TJM, Superior Engineering, BRC (with a fancy air filter), Aussie Custom Kits and Boss Suspension. Superior Engineering, BRC and ACK kits all look promising.

PDP diff breathers
Here is the link to the PDP diff breather mentioned above. PDP have model specific kits, but no Universal Kit for the INEOS. This is the kit for the Toyota LC200 series. Hilux and 70 series kits are cheaper.

Warning: an important component in any breather kit is high quality tubing that can deal with hot and cold temperatures and contaminants.

I ended up buying the BRC kit, see why below.

 

[Bobby Mac]

My 1996 Defender has 1 from the rear axle behind the cab (about bonnet height), and three on the firewall under the bonnet (almost bonnet height) from front axle, gearbox and transfer case. They are free flow (no valves) but the tubes have a 180 degree bend at the top to deter ingress of dust etc. Seems to work well. My old Series 2A was the old valve on axle, which I modified.

 

[TheDocAUS]

I narrowed down my choice to the Harrop, ACK and BRC breathers. I ended up buying the BRC Black Universal Hi-Temp Comp Diff Breather Kit because of the filter. it had six outlets and comes with high quality tubing - plus a 25% discount coupon helped (coupon was 4wdshop). The same kit is also available in blue. Six breather outlets allow me to plumb in the Red Winch if it has a breather (EDIT: red winch have advised the INEOS supplied winch does NOT have a breather fitted).

Other BRC kits are available at lower prices.

I also saw a comment on a retail site that said they had seen many diff breather kits and BRC was the best they had seen, although I did take that with a grain of salt.

EDIT: it has arrived and the BRC Kit is all quality.

 

[Camskii]

I narrowed down my choice to the Harrop, ACK and BRC breathers. I ended up buying the BRC Black Universal Hi-Temp Comp Diff Breather Kit because of the filter. it had six outlets and comes with high quality tubing - plus a 25% discount coupon helped (coupon was 4wdshop). The same kit is also available in blue. Six breather outlets allow me to plumb in the Red Winch if it has a breather.

Other BRC kits are available at lower prices.

I also saw a comment on a retail site that said they had seen many diff breather kits and BRC was the best they had seen, although I did take that with a grain of salt.

Has it been confirmed what the thread size is on the current breathers in the Grenadier?

 

[TheDocAUS]

Has it been confirmed what the thread size is on the current breathers in the Grenadier?

I have not found it yet.

I cannot confirm if the Red Winch has a breather either, although I have emailed Red Winch (EDIT: no breather fitted).

 

[Tom109]

Has it been confirmed what the thread size is on the current breathers in the Grenadier?

I have not found it yet.

I cannot confirm if the Red Winch has a breather either, although I have emailed Red Winch.

This post above says the thread is G3/4 (M30x2).

I just did a quick search, if this thread size is correct you’ll likely have to drill & tap the existing plug, or install an adapter to reduce from G3/4 to something smaller with a PTC rotating elbow.

 

[James]

I think I have read this thread, andI’m still unclear on something.
does anyone have experience of this type of pressure device, specifically of it not working?
I can see how it handles excess pressure, I’m not clear on how it helps when a hot diff hits cold water. But I can’t believe that ineos have failed to account for a ’normal’ offroad challenge, and protected the various geared boxes underneath adequately.

I can see how installing breathers is logical, but I’d like to think it’s unnecessary… is everyone being super cautious, or is this a known certainty to cause water ingress?

 

[AnD3rew]

I think I have read this thread, andI’m still unclear on something.
does anyone have experience of this type of pressure device, specifically of it not working?
I can see how it handles excess pressure, I’m not clear on how it helps when a hot diff hits cold water. But I can’t believe that ineos have failed to account for a ’normal’ offroad challenge, and protected the various geared boxes underneath adequately.

I can see how installing breathers is logical, but I’d like to think it’s unnecessary… is everyone being super cautious, or is this a known certainty to cause water ingress?

It’s a known issue, certainty may be going too far. The problem is that these types of one way valves are good at releasing pressure, but if you drive a hot diff and axle into cold water, the pressure is going to suddenly drop, this will slam the valve closed on the breather and stop any water getting in through the breather, all good, but now you effectively have a vacuum and it will try to equalise itself however it can and that is generally through axle seals etc. probably less of a problem when the vehicle is new, but as it ages and wears the more likely that will happen while in the water and then water in the oil leads to premature and excess wear and corrosion.

 

[TheDocAUS]

Diff breathers are needed for anyone involved in water crossings above the top of the diff. No such water crossing means no need for third party diff breathers. Otherwise you run the risk of serious damage to the diffs, transmission and transfer case.

The small cost of fitting third party diff breathers is a lot cheaper than fixing a diff, transmission or transfer case due to water contamination.

 

[James]

Thanks andrew and doc for your answers.
So the answer is I’m disappointed. I had hoped that there was a better logic to the low-pressure situation than relying on axle seals, which as you say are not likely to resist negative pressure for long. As you note diff breathers are not expensive tech, I would have expected Ineos to put them in, at very low cost on the line. Fiddly work afterwards.
I suppose there’s always the old landrover manual recommended approach (which everyone obviously observes) of stop before the crossing and wait for everything to cool. Just a quiet hour or so to build a fire and boil a billy. Ahh the serenity.

 

[gkhaldi]

are we kidding? breathers on axle and not raised inside the hood?

I asked the question to one of the Ineos specialist when they did the tour in Belgium and he confirmed that the Trialmaster had diff breathers. If I remember correctly they were routed to the battery compartment under the rear seat but I’m not a 100% sure. On holidays without the Grenadier now (too much sw issues to take it) so I’ll have a look when I’m back to confirm.

 

[AnD3rew]

I asked the question to one of the Ineos specialist when they did the tour in Belgium and he confirmed that the Trialmaster had diff breathers. If I remember correctly they were routed to the battery compartment under the rear seat but I’m not a 100% sure. On holidays without the Grenadier now (too much sw issues to take it) so I’ll have a look when I’m back to confirm.

I think we have pretty much confirmed that this is not the case

 

[DCPU]

This post above says the thread is G3/4 (M30x2).

No, that's not what it says.

I've found a name stamped on the Ineos breather, looked up the company, and found a visually similar item in their catalogue. Whether this is the item used on the Grenadier, or Ineos/Carraro have specified a bespoke one, remains to be seen.