Diff breathers

[DCPU]

And whilst we are talking about water in the diffs:

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[NoMoTaco]

I think we just need owners to check that the installation seen on what I assume to be prototypes in the US is actually what's on production vehicles.


View: https://youtu.be/XBy-hwULDQg


View attachment 7811002View attachment 7811001

So this certainly begs the question: Are the Differential Vents relocated higher up IF opting for the RAI (or perhaps Trialmaster)?

 

[NoMoTaco]

@Krabby Do you recall if the Grenadier on the ramps at the NY event (the one in which I took the pictures of the Diff Vents) had the RAI?

 

[Krabby]

@Krabby Do you recall if the Grenadier on the ramps at the NY event (the one in which I took the pictures of the Diff Vents) had the RAI?

No, I didn't even look that day. Wasn't on my mind - I was a kid in a candy shop with no time to read the ingredients.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

This is the setup Ronny Dahl recommends but he also recommends waiting a minute or so before doing a water crossing

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaIjpuN3g9k

Sintered bronze is great for a filter at the end of a vent line. Just make sure to periodically remove them and clean in some solvent. The oil mist that eventually works it’s way up is like a magnet to dirt and dust.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

Also, I’m sure we have enough vehicles in customer hands to put this to bed. At least for this generation of Grenadier.

Or are we starting down the sales market modification road?

 

[ORSO]

As Promised, here are some pictures I was able to snag of the diff vents on the ramped Grenadier at the NY event.

-Red Arrow indicates the Front Differential Vent (Driver side biased)
-Green Arrow indicates Rear Differential Vent (Passenger Side Biased)

Nothing Special, as expected, but here they are FWIW

are we kidding? breathers on axle and not raised inside the hood?

 

[ORSO]

This is what a diff breather kit looks like
Totally different to a non-return valve based breather
They are two way and allow the diff to breath out and back in from a controlled location.

It's the same job I did on my land by stretching the rilsan hose up to the hood

 

[Logsplitter]

Also, I’m sure we have enough vehicles in customer hands to put this to bed. At least for this generation of Grenadier.

Or are we starting down the sales market modification road?

Let’s hope someone on this forum that has their Grenadier can clarify the situation

 

[MaddMatt]

Interesting - it was one of the things I planned to check on my drive day, which unfortunately I couldn't make. I've always felt that I'm missing something with how manufacturers think about differential breathers - the "hot air out, cold air in" logic is pretty easy to understand, but the differential that does the most work, the rear, is almost always that simple one-way cap set up.

In the Xterra world, one of the first things a new owner does is to extend the rear diff breather. There are some easy after market kits out there, I ran mine through the frame rail, and up through existing body holes into the rear brake light. Then I put a filter on the end, just to finish it off. The whole project took about 30 minutes, and the whole time I was thinking "why didn't Nissan just do this at the factory?". Double confusing when you realize they did extend the breathers on the center and front differentials to the top of the engine bay!!

Now it would be easy to say this is just Nissan's nearly 20 year old spreadsheet engineering decision, but -the same was true on my 1996 4Runner (with the locking rear diff) and my 2001 Tacoma TRD - all three of these vehicles were "offroad spec" with locking rear diffs, yet none of them had the rear diff breather extended.

Someday I'd like an automotive engineer to explain why extending the breather on the front and center diffs is necessary, but not on the rear. The logic just doesn't track for me.

On this truck, it's not an Xterra after all, I would expect all of the diff breathers to be above the 800mm level; that's the kind of attention to detail I would expect on a purpose-built vehicle, BUT it will not be a game changer for me. Every new vehicle has its quirks, and this one will be easy to solve

 

[jrchrds]

Ok from reading that isn’t there a flaw in the Ineos design then,
vacuum created and then drawing water into the axle via the seals whilst wading. I dont suppose wading mode could mitigate that

I suppose its a bit of a cost saving feature. The only time you really need to worry about this is if you jump off the highway and right into the river. Normally while 4 wheeling your axle oil wont get so hot that the gas contraction from the cold water is strong enough to draw gas through the seals- the overpressure vents are spring loaded, so it takes a few PSI (chime in if anyone knows the value, I've never seen it) for them to vent in the first place. In common use, they probably wont normally vent, the pressure just changes inside the axle up and down within some minor range. This isn't necessarily the case in the transmission and transfer case, however. Anyway, back to axles. So for the most part, even if you ford a creek in the course of normal off roading, you are aren't going to have a large enough pressure change to force water through the axle seals, which are spring loaded on the inside of the seal, and a pretty secure fit besides, making the vents not necessary. But the overpressure vents are installed for highway driving, because the change from sitting to 70MPH on the highway will definitely create enough pressure to need a vent, and you sure don't want it blowing out the axle seal to do it.

So I guess the takeaway is the number of people who will hit a situation where a full breather is necessary is very small- and likely those people would be installing ARB full breathers anyway, so why spend the money for the city drivers and rare river crossers?

 

[NoMoTaco]

No, I didn't even look that day. Wasn't on my mind - I was a kid in a candy shop with no time to read the ingredients.

Well Said (and I can relate)...thanks to the Alex Beras video this minor mystery is solved. The PTO2s with RAI have only these simple Diff Vents.

But Can a current Grenadier owner please confirm? We would all be very grateful for some Pictures to go along with such confirmation!

 

[dynosoar]

Keep it simple? Sealed with a bellows expansion chamber?

A

https://www.desertcart.co.uk/products/249597087-universal-diff-vent-breather-closed-breather-system-differential-vent-bellows?gclid=CjwKCAjwge2iBhBBEiwAfXDBR4l1-yongyWcIUc7rtMYcBZc-8QmSw9J3YU-0Sw1Ve0At4NvelqpSBoCCPkQAvD_BwE

 

[jrchrds]

Keep it simple? Sealed with a bellows expansion chamber?

A

https://www.desertcart.co.uk/products/249597087-universal-diff-vent-breather-closed-breather-system-differential-vent-bellows?gclid=CjwKCAjwge2iBhBBEiwAfXDBR4l1-yongyWcIUc7rtMYcBZc-8QmSw9J3YU-0Sw1Ve0At4NvelqpSBoCCPkQAvD_BwE

Not robust enough and too easy to disguise damage in the bellows. If you look at the reviews, most of them are for smaller axles, like side by sides and such.

 

[DCPU]

So I enlisted some help and set out this afternoon to find the diff breathers...

And found them. This is the rear axle, looking back to the rear bumper. The breather is on the "inboard" side. It feels like a small jiggle valve. Apologies for the bad photos, it really is a pig of a place to get to try and photo:

No photos of the front one but it is on the opposite "outboard" side tucked in tight against the upper control arm and coil spring.

I also found out that the diff drain plugs are not underneath the diff housing, but rather in the side:

 

[Logsplitter]

So I enlisted some help and set out this afternoon to find the diff breathers...View attachment 7811624

And found them. This is the rear axle, looking back to the rear bumper. The breather is on the "inboard" side. It feels like a small jiggle valve. Apologies for the bad photos, it really is a pig of a place to get to try and photo:
View attachment 7811629
View attachment 7811630

No photos of the front one but it is on the opposite "outboard" side tucked in tight against the upper control arm and coil spring.

I also found out that the diff drain plugs are not underneath the diff housing, but rather in the side:
View attachment 7811631
View attachment 7811632

What size hex key for those

 

[DCPU]

What size hex key for those

I'm going to check the levels tomorrow, so I'll add that to the list.

 

[Logsplitter]

I'm going to check the levels tomorrow, so I'll add that to the list.

Can’t wait to get mine next week and get to familiarise myself with it as you are doing

 

[DCPU]

What size hex key for those

 

[Logsplitter]

View attachment 7811793View attachment 7811794

Thanks for that, I happen to have one in my garage. Any further recommendations on specific tools apart from the regular would be much appreciated