Aftermarket Diff Locks

[Zimm]

Honestly, I would much rather have ARB's that are not integrated with the trucks computers. There are valid reasons for being able to lock any axle at will and at any speed. I don't want the truck making those decisions for me.

I can also see attempting to de integrate the factory lockers. I'd pay good money for that.

Oh yea, definitely. I remember when I got my Europa Gwagon. I was thinking, wtf is this bullshit with computer controlled sequence, and I bought all that parts to convert them to hydraulic. … and the parts are still on a shelf.

 

[Zimm]

Since they are electrically activated, you could just rewire the diff locks like you would with aftermarket ones?

I wondered if there was a way to cut into the power supply for the diffs. It’s a “wait for the manual wiring diagrams” thing. They work, so it really isn’t urgent.

 

[LeeroyJ]

I would guess all Jeep and Bronco guys say the same, regardless of the price point?
I used to say that about Toyota Tacomas- Buy the 4X4, you will get your money back during the resale.

I plan on going to the grave with my non-locker Grenadier - resale? no issue...
Would I like to have lockers, hell yes, was I willing to spend another 10K for them? No. I wanted a Grenadier, and I was not spending over $70K.
Would I recommend them? Yes, if you want to send the extra cash.

$10K for the factory diff-locks? Where are you getting that? I just checked the cheapest build I could make for the Grenadier and adding the "Rough Pack" which provides front and rear diffs and upgrades the tires to BFG KO2's, is a $3,000 option. If you buy only the Diff Locks its $2,400.

I added front and rear ARB lockers to my 2007 Defender 110, and my 2012 LC 200, and I remember the parts alone costing more than $2400. Add to that the need for an air system, loosing the factory warranty on the axles, and the cost of installation (beyond my skillset), and it was a lot more than $2400.

 

[Tom109]

Opportunity missed.

 

[Zimm]

I plan on going to the grave with my non-locker Grenadier - resale? no issue...

there isn't a single person alive that plan has worked for..

 

[hightechcoonass]

I think you are wrong! Haha

Pennsylvania man buried with his beloved Corvette

On May 25, 1994, the ashes of 71-year-old George Swanson are buried (according to Swanson’s request) in the driver’s ...

www.history.com

 

[Zimm]

I think you are wrong! Haha

Pennsylvania man buried with his beloved Corvette

On May 25, 1994, the ashes of 71-year-old George Swanson are buried (according to Swanson’s request) in the driver’s ...

www.history.com

Reread the "buggs bunny" syntax.

 

[pmatusov]

I wondered if there was a way to cut into the power supply for the diffs. It’s a “wait for the manual wiring diagrams” thing. They work, so it really isn’t urgent.

Electrical / wiring manual is already on site.

 

[hightechcoonass]

$10K for the factory diff-locks? Where are you getting that? I just checked the cheapest build I could make for the Grenadier and adding the "Rough Pack" which provides front and rear diffs and upgrades the tires to BFG KO2's, is a $3,000 option. If you buy only the Diff Locks its $2,400.

I added front and rear ARB lockers to my 2007 Defender 110, and my 2012 LC 200, and I remember the parts alone costing more than $2400. Add to that the need for an air system, loosing the factory warranty on the axles, and the cost of installation (beyond my skillset), and it was a lot more than $2400.

My truck was heavily discounted demo but was sold to me “as new”. To get a diff lock off the lot (or to order one) was quoted as $10 more. I was also able to get the “Bronco Trade “ discount.

 

[Tazzieman]

My truck was heavily discounted demo but was sold to me “as new”. To get a diff lock off the lot (or to order one) was quoted as $10 more. I

Dealer's tariff You definitely have stealerships in your country.

 

[Clark Kent]

Electrical / wiring manual is already on site.

I wondered if there was a way to cut into the power supply for the diffs. It’s a “wait for the manual wiring diagrams” thing. They work, so it really isn’t urgent.

Some postulation about Zimm's question. Probably just a desktop exercise. Read past it if you're not interested.
------------
As a wiring exercise it's a simple task. The body to axle connectors are located on the frame next to the left lower link mounts - pics. Unplug the connectors and apply an alternate 12v supply on the downstream side of the circuit (facing the axle) and the e-locker/s should energise. The Eaton wiring diagram provides the information needed to create a manual control circuit. A switch and a relay and not much else.

If you piggyback power onto those connectors the BCM won't be happy when it sees 12v come into the circuit that it wasn't expecting, and Canbus will see an open circuit if you leave the factory connectors unplugged. A dual supply arrangement is required where either the BCM or the driver can send power forward to the e-lockers but not towards the BCM. Blocking diodes would solve this, similar to the circuit protection device used by Redarc for their tow pro brake controllers (and shown in the Eaton diagram).
That simplistically deals with manually controlling the e-lockers but it doesn't address the Ineos control and BCM logic.

I understand that Electronic Traction Control (ETC) including downhill assist is disabled while the diff locks are on. I'm guessing this is why the wheel speed sensors are in the loop otherwise Ineos went to a lot of trouble to control the lights in the overhead switches. Reading around the webs this control logic seems common to other brands with factory lockers and ETC.

But what happens if a diff is manually locked by the driver and ETC does activate? That sounds like a cross-axle conflict. ETC is trying to brake one wheel but the axle is locked so what happens on one side affects the other side. This is no different to retrofitting an e-locker to a vehicle with factory ETC. I can't see anything in the Eaton documentation that requires ETC to be disabled as part of e-locker installation so they must be able to co-exist.
I see this like driving through the brakes to recover traction on a vehicle with an open centre differential. The wheels are seeing power and braking force at the same time. If the wheels do stop turning the speeds are the same (zero) and ETC will deactivate. If the diff is locked there shouldn't be different wheel speeds but e-lockers can unlock temporarily if the vehicle rolls backwards so I can't say it would never happen.

This does seem like a fair bit of work for limited gain but I can think of two immediate benefits:
1. Temporary rear diff lock in high range. Useful for a traction boost without going through low range. Towing off a slippery flat campsite is one example. A few seconds of extra ground bite is useful to get movement.
2. The manual circuit could be hot (I would suggest that's done through a VSR) so the diff/s stay locked when you stop the vehicle temporarily. Plenty have asked about this. Currently the only option is to leave the vehicle running.

Assuming the BCM can be isolated, what are the operational considerations and impacts of locking a diff without the BCM knowing about it?

 

[NQ94]

Some postulation about Zimm's question. Probably just a desktop exercise. Read past it if you're not interested.
------------
As a wiring exercise it's a simple task. The body to axle connectors are located on the frame next to the left lower link mounts - pics. Unplug the connectors and apply an alternate 12v supply on the downstream side of the circuit (facing the axle) and the e-locker/s should energise. The Eaton wiring diagram provides the information needed to create a manual control circuit. A switch and a relay and not much else.

If you piggyback power onto those connectors the BCM won't be happy when it sees 12v come into the circuit that it wasn't expecting, and Canbus will see an open circuit if you leave the factory connectors unplugged. A dual supply arrangement is required where either the BCM or the driver can send power forward to the e-lockers but not towards the BCM. Blocking diodes would solve this, similar to the circuit protection device used by Redarc for their tow pro brake controllers (and shown in the Eaton diagram).
That simplistically deals with manually controlling the e-lockers but it doesn't address the Ineos control and BCM logic.

I understand that Electronic Traction Control (ETC) including downhill assist is disabled while the diff locks are on. I'm guessing this is why the wheel speed sensors are in the loop otherwise Ineos went to a lot of trouble to control the lights in the overhead switches. Reading around the webs this control logic seems common to other brands with factory lockers and ETC.

But what happens if a diff is manually locked by the driver and ETC does activate? That sounds like a cross-axle conflict. ETC is trying to brake one wheel but the axle is locked so what happens on one side affects the other side. This is no different to retrofitting an e-locker to a vehicle with factory ETC. I can't see anything in the Eaton documentation that requires ETC to be disabled as part of e-locker installation so they must be able to co-exist.
I see this like driving through the brakes to recover traction on a vehicle with an open centre differential. The wheels are seeing power and braking force at the same time. If the wheels do stop turning the speeds are the same (zero) and ETC will deactivate. If the diff is locked there shouldn't be different wheel speeds but e-lockers can unlock temporarily if the vehicle rolls backwards so I can't say it would never happen.

This does seem like a fair bit of work for limited gain but I can think of two immediate benefits:
1. Temporary rear diff lock in high range. Useful for a traction boost without going through low range. Towing off a slippery flat campsite is one example. A few seconds of extra ground bite is useful to get movement.
2. The manual circuit could be hot (I would suggest that's done through a VSR) so the diff/s stay locked when you stop the vehicle temporarily. Plenty have asked about this. Currently the only option is to leave the vehicle running.

Assuming the BCM can be isolated, what are the operational considerations and impacts of locking a diff without the BCM knowing about it?

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If Ineos PTO3 wiring diagram is close to the final wiring the diff locking circuits are a bit more complex than the Eaton aftermarket diff lock wiring diagram. Ineos is using the BCM to switch the relay to ground for the locks and the ETWG to power the coil for the diff lock, this makes two different modules controlling and detecting diff lock state, probably for fault detection and circuit confirmation. With a bit of crafty wiring and change over relays or a similar circuit board both factory and aftermarket options could be used but in override mode the traction and stability control may still cause issues without some electrical trickery using something like Arduino.

 

[Clark Kent]

If Ineos PTO3 wiring diagram is close to the final wiring the diff locking circuits are a bit more complex than the Eaton aftermarket diff lock wiring diagram. Ineos is using the BCM to switch the relay to ground for the locks and the ETWG to power the coil for the diff lock, this makes two different modules controlling and detecting diff lock state, probably for fault detection and circuit confirmation. With a bit of crafty wiring and change over relays or a similar circuit board both factory and aftermarket options could be used but in override mode the traction and stability control may still cause issues without some electrical trickery using something like Arduino.

Yes, the further up circuit you go the more complex it gets so I stayed close to the diffs and out of the PTO3 diagrams. Those connectors are simple two-wire which I'm assuming are power and ground.
The Eaton diagram is just to illustrate an alternative supply, and how simple it can be done.
I doubt it's worth the effort but if there's enough interest someone might have a go at it. This was to kick off the discussion.

 

[NQ94]

Yes, the further up circuit you go the more complex it gets so I stayed close to the diffs and out of the PTO3 diagrams. Those connectors are simple two-wire which I'm assuming are power and ground.
The Eaton diagram is just to illustrate an alternative supply, and how simple it can be done.
I doubt it's worth the effort but if there's enough interest someone might have a go at it. This was to kick off the discussion.

Imo I thought it was a bit excessive to supply the higher current diff lock coil from the gateway module. It's a module that can't be repaired easily if there damage from an unexpected high current draw from wiring damage under the car. They could of just used the BCM as the relay control and a normal fused power supply through the diff lock coil to simplify the system.

 

[LeeroyJ]

My truck was heavily discounted demo but was sold to me “as new”. To get a diff lock off the lot (or to order one) was quoted as $10 more. I was also able to get the “Bronco Trade “ discount.

Ok that makes sense. So, your $10K was the price to get another Grenny that already had Diff locks vs the one you bought off the lot. I'm not sure a $10k premium would be worth it either.