General Diesel or Petrol

[Logsplitter]

Hi,

for off-road usage diesel wins over petrol by miles: advantages have been outlined: range, ease of supply and transport, torque etc. The DPF problem only occurs, when the engine is not allowed to do higher revs once in a while for an extended period. You need to drive the vehicle across a highway at full speed (or max. revs in a lower gear) for 60-80kms every 10-15.000kms. When you are utilising the engines power regularly off-road, there should be no need for the highway "blowout journey". Alternative is a garage service. Their equipment allows to "burn" the DPF free of sod whilst in the garage bay, by running the engine in a service mode at 2500rpm or so for 25 minutes.

Enjoy your travels.

I respect your opinion. However I’m going for a petrol version for overland travel having evaluated all the implications and pros and cons. I’m quite happy with torque and range of the petrol Grenadier as they are both greater than my previous vehicles, in which I’ve done extensive overland travel.
In a petrol version I can add an additive to counter the low octane fuel that I may encounter in some countries, there is no additive or filtration for high sulphur diesel that I know of.
Both petrol and diesel Grenadier versions have plenty of torque and I’m sure aftermarket suppliers will come up with a solution for extra fuel for any with range anxiety.
I’m sure we’ll all be happy with whatever engine choice we make

 

[frankkk]

I respect your opinion. However I’m going for a petrol version for overland travel having evaluated all the implications and pros and cons. I’m quite happy with torque and range of the petrol Grenadier as they are both greater than my previous vehicles, in which I’ve done extensive overland travel.
In a petrol version I can add an additive to counter the low octane fuel that I may encounter in some countries, there is no additive or filtration for high sulphur diesel that I know of.
Both petrol and diesel Grenadier versions have plenty of torque and I’m sure aftermarket suppliers will come up with a solution for extra fuel for any with range anxiety.
I’m sure we’ll all be happy with whatever engine choice we make

Petrol is for petrolheads..-)..there is nothing wrong w that, in Europe traveling in a petrol would be prohibitively expensive, once in Africa, it doesn’t make a difference any more. The BMW straight six is a formidable engine..petrol or diesel..

Additives f diesel are readily available, however, the ecu should recognize the difference in quality and adapt the engine settings..

 

[Logsplitter]

I based some of my thoughts and final decision on what various Ineos reps told me via emails and at open days. They have been openly steering people towards petrol engines for those that intend to use in countries with high sulphur diesel. Apparently a max of 50ppm sulphur for diesel engine.
Im sure you’re right about additives for diesel engines to counter high sulphur, I’ve never heard of it though. Would certainly have used it in my defender 2.2tdci if I had known when touring West Africa
Happy Grenadiering meet you on the trail some day.

Petrol is for petrolheads..-)..there is nothing wrong w that, in Europe traveling in a petrol would be prohibitively expensive, once in Africa, it doesn’t make a difference any more. The BMW straight six is a formidable engine..petrol or diesel..

Additives f diesel are readily available, however, the ecu should recognize the difference in quality and adapt the engine settings..

 

[globalgregors]

I based some of my thoughts and final decision on what various Ineos reps told me via emails and at open days. They have been openly steering people towards petrol engines for those that intend to use in countries with high sulphur diesel. Apparently a max of 50ppm sulphur for diesel engine.
Im sure you’re right about additives for diesel engines to counter high sulphur, I’ve never heard of it though. Would certainly have used it in my defender 2.2tdci if I had known when touring West Africa
Happy Grenadiering meet you on the trail some day.

Not clear to me what additive solves for high sulfur diesel. Only solution I’m aware of is periodic inspection and manual cleaning of the DPF.
Unlike @Logsplitter I don’t mind the prospect of this, mostly because I enjoy the tinkering and so the benefits outweigh the inconvenience.

That said if there’s a solution we don’t know about, please share.

I stress the problem we are trying to solve is not DPF issues associated with insufficient regen, it’s countries/regions (Russia/Central Asia/South America/Magreb) where diesel is of a quality that causes sulfurous depositions that don’t burn off.

Welcome to the forum, by the way!

 

[frankkk]

Not clear to me what additive solves for high sulfur diesel. Only solution I’m aware of is periodic inspection and manual cleaning of the DPF.
Unlike @Logsplitter I don’t mind the prospect of this, mostly because I enjoy the tinkering and so the benefits outweigh the inconvenience.

That said if there’s a solution we don’t know about, please share.

I stress the problem we are trying to solve is not DPF issues associated with insufficient regen, it’s countries/regions (Russia/Central Asia/South America/Magreb) where diesel is of a quality that causes sulfurous depositions that don’t burn off.

Welcome to the forum, by the way!

Thanks for the welcome !

I see, but in practise this should not really be an issue. The accessible countries in North Africa have decent diesel. I dunno whether you want to travel any of the countries with high sulphur diesel like Russia, Libya, Iran or the likes (even there you often find two qualities of diesel) but if you do, the fuel mix is known as GD 30: 30% gasoline, 68% Diesel and 2% Cetan booster. However, from what I find, water, rust, sand and such stuff causes much bigger problems in remote places than high sulphur diesel. No idea whether the GRENADIER has a system like a RACOR filter to deal with that ?

 

[frankkk]

Was

Thanks for the welcome !

I see, but in practise this should not really be an issue. The accessible countries in North Africa have decent diesel. I dunno whether you want to travel any of the countries with high sulphur diesel like Russia, Libya, Iran or the likes (even there you often find two qualities of diesel) but if you do, the fuel mix is known as GD 30: 30% gasoline, 68% Diesel and 2% Cetan booster. However, from what I find, water, rust, sand and such stuff causes much bigger problems in remote places than high sulphur diesel. No idea whether the GRENADIER has a system like a RACOR filter to deal with that ?

Was just checking on the subject with my trusted engine manufacturer, who offers an optional "sulphur robustness package" for certain diesel engines. Should the markets with high sulphur diesel be of interest, sure INEOS will be offering something similar. On the actual list of countries with high sulphur diesel there are only a handful really, that could be of interest / are accessible to travellers, most of them offer two different qualities of diesel, calling it "truck diesel" and "car diesel". Since all modern vehicles suffer from the same syndrome, an older vehicle might be preferable for a true around the world adventure.

 

[Logsplitter]

Was

Was just checking on the subject with my trusted engine manufacturer, who offers an optional "sulphur robustness package" for certain diesel engines. Should the markets with high sulphur diesel be of interest, sure INEOS will be offering something similar. On the actual list of countries with high sulphur diesel there are only a handful really, that could be of interest / are accessible to travellers, most of them offer two different qualities of diesel, calling it "truck diesel" and "car diesel". Since all modern vehicles suffer from the same syndrome, an older vehicle might be preferable for a true around the world adventure.

This is a picture of my exhaust on a defender 2.2 tdci. EGR valve disabled. Green sludge dripping from the exhaust. Lots of dpf regenerations. Long term this would cause a problem with injectors and dpf.
Guinea 2019

 

[Shaky]

Logsplitter…..wow, wow, wow. That would scare me if I was abroad touring and saw that dripping out of the exhaust.

It would frighten me even more if it was coming out of the exhaust of my grenadier…I ordered a petrol.

I would have preferred a diesel in some ways but decided the UK is getting more and more unfriendly toward diesel vehicles. I (rightly or wrongly) decided that petrol had a few more years in it.

 

[globalgregors]

Was

Was just checking on the subject with my trusted engine manufacturer, who offers an optional "sulphur robustness package" for certain diesel engines. Should the markets with high sulphur diesel be of interest, sure INEOS will be offering something similar. On the actual list of countries with high sulphur diesel there are only a handful really, that could be of interest / are accessible to travellers, most of them offer two different qualities of diesel, calling it "truck diesel" and "car diesel". Since all modern vehicles suffer from the same syndrome, an older vehicle might be preferable for a true around the world adventure.

Views noted.

To answer your questions.
1. Sulfur: Ineos reps suggest petrol engines for those operating their vehicles persistently in/into these regions. No plan for a down-spec (no DPF/EGR) version as per present LR Defender.
2. Contamination: Ineos indicate Australian-delivered Diesel vehicles will ship with dual filters, which we tend to run in outback areas with fuel storage concerns (stations, mine sites, remote communities). AFAIK single filters for EU deliveries.

 

[AnD3rew]

Hi all,

I'm 75/25 for diesel over petrol on my build but still have nagging doubts over the future and pricing of diesel here in the UK.
I know for some there is no diesel option in your region so the choice is already made for you. However I'm keen to get other people's thoughts on the choice and what you are going for and why.

off-road/towing/long mileage etc etc versus short runs and better road responsiveness with throttle, less technical and lower servicing costs - etc etc

tks in advance

If I lived in UK/EU and wasn’t doing a lot of heavy towing I would go petrol, for here in Australia where we do a lot of long distance touring with sometimes several hundred hard kilometres between fuel stops the Diesel is the way I am going for range as much as anything.

 

[AnD3rew]

Thanks for the welcome !

I see, but in practise this should not really be an issue. The accessible countries in North Africa have decent diesel. I dunno whether you want to travel any of the countries with high sulphur diesel like Russia, Libya, Iran or the likes (even there you often find two qualities of diesel) but if you do, the fuel mix is known as GD 30: 30% gasoline, 68% Diesel and 2% Cetan booster. However, from what I find, water, rust, sand and such stuff causes much bigger problems in remote places than high sulphur diesel. No idea whether the GRENADIER has a system like a RACOR filter to deal with that ?

Australian delivered vehicles will have two fuel filters one with a water separator

 

[Tazzieman]

Another nail in the coffin?
"Not in my lifetime" I hear people say.
But the world is moving quickly, even though Australia always seems 5 years behind.

As the world transitions to cleaner energy sources, the end could be nigh for diesel

New technology to replace diesel fuel could transform the freight industry and a lot of the machinery used in agriculture and mining. So what does that look like on the ground?

www.abc.net.au

 

[emax]

Key points:​

...

• There are calls for a transition policy for Australia

They should write, who calls for that. Battery makers? Electricity companies ...?

The best is this:

An artist's impression of Maersk's first methanol-powered container ship, due to start service in mid-2023.

At a first glance this looks like a ship having loaded nothing other than batteries or methanol tanks to get over the ocean.

 

[AnD3rew]

Another nail in the coffin?
"Not in my lifetime" I hear people say.
But the world is moving quickly, even though Australia always seems 5 years behind.

As the world transitions to cleaner energy sources, the end could be nigh for diesel

New technology to replace diesel fuel could transform the freight industry and a lot of the machinery used in agriculture and mining. So what does that look like on the ground?

www.abc.net.au

I think this is both true and an overstatement at the same time. Yes there are rapid developments in alternative power sources for transport, but diesel in some form will be around for a few decades yet. In my view Green Hydrogen is the most likely replacement for heavy haulage in regional areas but there is a lot of investment to go on that before it is state of the industry. I suspect passenger petrol will go before diesel goes completely or at least it will be eplaced by efuels for niche applications like classic cars. For remote travel there is not yet anything that can replace diesels energy to weight ratio in a relatively safe form to carry in bulk and also to resupply through existing networks. Possibly electric trucks with swappable batteries along main arterial routes like the Hume and Pacific highways between Melbourne Sydney and Brisbane are feasible within a reasonable timeframe but what about Chinchilla and Mt Isa and Broken Hill and Karatha and beyond. I can see Hydrogen in some of these places as it can potentially be supplied through existing networks with reasonable cost modifications or renewable diesel but I think electric is some way off if ever for this.

 

[Tazzieman]

I try not to predict the future , but I do like the one pedal drive switch of my wife's Volvo EV for when I get old and infirm.
It's a safe rocket ship. And in runs on green energy FWIW.

 

[bigleonski]

And then there’s this from Mr Toyoda of Toyota. Toyota isn’t stupid:

“I believe we need to be realistic about when society will be able to fully adopt ... electric vehicles and when our infrastructure can support them at scale,” said Mr Toyoda.

“I am often criticised in the press because I won't declare that the automotive industry should commit 100 per cent to (solely electric vehicles).

“Because, just like the fully autonomous cars that we were all supposed to be driving by now, I think (electric vehicles) are just going to take longer to become mainstream than the media would like us to believe.”

Toyoda also believes there will be “tremendous shortages” of lithium and battery grade nickel in the next five to 10 years, leading to production and supply chain problems.

 

[Max]

Biodiesel and Hydrogen fuel cells...I can't wait for the Hydrogen but I will see it in the future whilst I am buying Biodiesel for my Grenadier...I am not predicting the future...just repeating what I've read.

When the Greenies workout we are still digging in the ground for batteries, it will change...I hope.

 

[bigleonski]

Another issue with litium at the moment is their capacity to ignite for no reason.
I’ve a mate who is a firefighter and he’s said that there is an increased number of callouts to house fires where the EV has been in the garage and then just gone up in smoke.
Technology is a wonderful thing, once you’ve got it right.

 

[Krabby]

If companies like Porsche can produce an e-fuel, as they have, that can run on today’s petrol -powered cars, I am hopeful combustion stays alive. If I lived in a city and hopped around a few miles here and there, I’d buy electric today. But I don’t. I live in the real world and enjoy driving and exploring.

However, in my limited experience, I find electric cars to be lacking soul. They’re washing machines and microwaves. Efficient in getting the job done, but just meh otherwise. I’m a car person. I like the looks, sounds, feelings, and even smells that come with combustion-based travel.

 

[bigleonski]

However, in my limited experience, I find electric cars to be lacking soul. They’re washing machines and microwaves. Efficient in getting the job done, but just meh otherwise. I’m a car person.

One of the reasons I’m going at the Iggy instead of the 300 Toyota. The 300 will be better than the IG in so many aspects, and lesser in orhers, but soul is definitely an I G strength.