Workshop Manuals available?

[MattA]

To me, and for a number of reasons, if there is one vehicle for which access to Tech Data is essential, it is the Grenadier! Ineos initially acknowledged this need and promised owner access to the Workshop Manual. I ordered my Gren with that understanding. Disappointingly, our dealer has since confirmed that Tech Data will no longer be made available to owners. For our purpose this is a disqualifying change in the scope of supply, leaving us on the sideline for the time being. Our 35 year old Defender will be soldiering on for a while longer

Absolutely, same as here in Australia for anyone planning to use it for what they are built for, remote touring and 4wding, there is no way on earth I would take a new car like an Ineos remote without the ability to get it fixed outside of the tiny dealer network, being a Land Rover owner is bad enough, being a IG owner that situation is 100 times worse

 

[grnamin]

I'm sure dealerships here in the US have at least a digital copy of the shop manual. If only someone would leak it online. Anonymously, of course.

 

[Jean Mercier]

For me, the openly accessible workshop manuals were also part of my purchase decision.
And the way INEOS has advertised the product, for me it is a guaranteed feature that has not been fulfilled.

Since individual emails obviously don't help, we could send something like an open letter to INEOS where we all sign who are interested or an open petition.

Well that's an excellent idea ... @Stu_Barnes perhaps set this up on the forum? And send it to Ineos? I would sign!

 

[carlg007]

Well that's an excellent idea ... @Stu_Barnes perhaps set this up on the forum? And send it to Ineos? I would sign!

This is a major concern to many. This is something that needs to come to the for front and a promise made should be a promise kept. @Stu_Barnes please help with this situation. Thank you !

 

[baders]

I'd also support an open letter to Ineos regarding a workshop manual. I have always serviced my own cars and my families. I have a clean shed with car hoist so not much is undoable.

 

[Christian]

In my opinion the letter does not have to be sent to INEOS, but directly to

jim.ratcliffe@ineos.com

 

[MattA]

Send it to Ratliff, head of marketing and the legal team so everyone is in the loop, as if a multi millionaire who runs multiple companies will have time to deal directly with the issue

 

[Krabby]

*billionaire

 

[Tomdoc]

I would sign such a letter too - one of the main selling points was user repairs within reason. I am planning a long overland trip this year and, as yet, have little Ineos supplied knowledge (apart from what we collectively have gained on here) on simple stuff such as:

Wiring loom diagram
Fluids - for example, the recommended oil is not available commercially in UK
Filters
Spare fuses

Yes I know all the above but from this forum

We even to my knowledge have no guarantee that doing our own oil changes won't void the warranty.

I suspect Sir Jim may concur that this is not his vision.

 

[bakepl]

This is a major concern to many. This is something that needs to come to the for front and a promise made should be a promise kept. @Stu_Barnes please help with this situation. Thank you !

Not just a promise. It was a calculated business decision together with the DIY maintenance to make the product attractive to potential buyers (in particular early adopters) and in some way to counter all the unknowns of a new vehicle company, new vehicle, limited dealer network, sustainability, reliability etc - it worked for me and I repeated this to others as a key selling feature. I suspect many others on this forum and elsewhere did the same. Would it have stopped my purchase if they did not offer the DIY and manuals? No but I'd have to give it much more consideration. It's a fantastic vehicle and I'd likely have waited a little until the aforesaid issues were somewhat more established and known.

 

[255/85]

Would it have stopped my purchase if they did not offer the DIY and manuals? No but I'd have to give it much more consideration.

We're very much on the fence now. With no manuals extant or in the works we're having to give it that extra consideration.

 

[bakepl]

We're very much on the fence now. With no manuals extant or in the works we're having to give it that extra consideration.

Please don't let my comments turn you off. Having worked on the vehicle in terms of my particular build, I can say I'm extremely happy with my decision but just somewhat disappointed about the manuals or promise thereof. I'm still in hope that they will be made available. For my purpose there is no other vehicle out of the box that suits and for me it's simply superb. It certainly comprises of very well known, robust and high quality components and this I guess is reflected in the price. The vehicle is relatively easy to work on/with and the only thing I really need now, other than the manuals which would be mighty handy for such things as torque settings etc... is proper aftermarket bi-directional diagnostics that I can carry with me, something I have done with all my other vehicles for that little bit more assurance in that if I do have a problem in remote locations at least I'll have some chance of diagnosis/workaround. I'm relatively confident this will come, not sure how long it will take but am hoping the U.S. market will hurry things along.

 

[255/85]

Torque specs, a complete wiring diagram, and a scan tool would ease my mind greatly. We're four hours from the nearest dealer. That's a long trip for a loose bolt or a twerking puddle lamp.

I appreciate your encouragement. We have a coupe of months yet. My fingers are crossed.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Got an e-mail from my dealer yesterday, after a quite hard e-mail on my side concerning the lack of "customer care" and not keeping the promises. Next phrase is a correct "Google translation":

"The complete open parts and repair manual suggested by Ineos during the development phase will certainly not be implemented."

 

[Tazzieman]

Got an e-mail from my dealer yesterday, after a quite hard e-mail on my side concerning the lack of "customer care" and not keeping the promises. Next phrase is a correct "Google translation":

"The complete open parts and repair manual suggested by Ineos during the development phase will certainly not be implemented."

Someone will find it and post it here one day.
No worries mate!

 

[Eric]

Got an e-mail from my dealer yesterday, after a quite hard e-mail on my side concerning the lack of "customer care" and not keeping the promises. Next phrase is a correct "Google translation":

"The complete open parts and repair manual suggested by Ineos during the development phase will certainly not be implemented."

The dealers wouldn't stand for it. It would mean their sole source of income would be the handling fee for new sales and warranty work.

 

[Logsplitter]

Surely the dealers entered into this knowing what Ineos had promised their customers in their marketing

 

[grnamin]

Got an e-mail from my dealer yesterday, after a quite hard e-mail on my side concerning the lack of "customer care" and not keeping the promises. Next phrase is a correct "Google translation":

"The complete open parts and repair manual suggested by Ineos during the development phase will certainly not be implemented."

That's what's called a "bait and switch".

 

[GPFACTOR]

The dealers wouldn't stand for it. It would mean their sole source of income would be the handling fee for new sales and warranty work.

I agree. Dealers want to get the service work. But its so short sited on their part and Ineos' part if they don't make those manuals available. Think about it: If they ship the 8000 preorders to the US, which they are doing currently, how many of those owners are actually going to want to or have the know how, tools, desire, to work on their own truck? Maybe at best 5%? A very small percentage. Remember there is a large segment of people that want this as a pavement princess, which is totally fine and great. Or there are those that want to use it off-road but will let the dealer do all the work anyways because they don't want the hassle. Then there's us hooligans who want to tinker and do it ourselves.

So the dealers are going to get work anyways. Those of us that want the manuals, will find a way after owning this truck long enough to do it ourselves. So all the dealers and Ineos gain by having that mentality, is pissing off a segment of their owners that are truly trying to fulfill Ratcliff's vision for this vehicle. (Unless that vision was all just BS...).

Aside from the service manuals we all want, I find it to comical there is nothing in the manual we all have or anywhere from the factory that even tells us exactly where all the AUX connections that are wired into the truck and switches up top for are located and where those lines terminate... an installed accessory in the truck that was paid for and no documentation in the manual for it... (Unless I missed that part of the manual completely....)

Thank God for all of you, and the information you post for those of you that have owned these longer than us in the States, and specifically finding those AUX locations and posted them on here... and my point exactly. If there is a will there is a way.

We love this truck, its amazing. Mechanically sound thus far, and exceeds expectations on most fronts. We are committed long term to it. Where they have severely dropped the ball is on the easy stuff, IMHO as a manufacturer.
1. Documentation and manuals
2. Programing - safety system features that go on and off whenever - This can get a pass if updates fix a bunch. Thats pretty typical for new vehicles
3. Child rear door locks but no window locks? "Sorry Sport, you can't open the door, but feel free to put down the window and jump out" - Those two go hand in hand. Having one without the other just makes any safety useless.
4. Climate system that runs off a hamster on a wheel (its slow and sporadic. Thats shouldn't be the case with a $80k+ truck.
5. And last but not least - a basic beyond basic feature that all cars have had for the last 100 years - Manual interior door locks...

 

[DenisM]

As my grandfather was want to quote when looking for a solution, or facing a challenge:
" you never know your luck in a big city, son!"
Let's wait and see what eventuates as regards owner manuals/ workshop instructions