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Winch or not ?

Jean Mercier

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The Google translation of the text of our French friend (previous post) is quite OK:

"Good evening
On my DEFENDER since 2012; I used the winch three times.
A first time to get a RANGE P38 out of a bad situation on an isolated track in Morocco.
A second time to get a DISCO II out of a perilous situation in a river in Morocco
A third time to get me out of a perilous situation following a misbehaviour.

This remains, despite everything, an important element of security for others and sometimes for yourself.

Have a good evening."

By the way, the "real "Largo Winch" speaks English, for sure :)
 

Jean Mercier

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I went through this thread today, very interesting, although I already had taken my decision!

I ordered my Grenadier with an integrated winch. Why? Most arguments were already exposed by some of you …

I got stuck several times in my life. Twice I needed external help (twice in Tunisia, once on a beach, both left wheels completely sunk in the soft sand: like some 20 fishermen of the nearby village lifted my Pajero out of the sand, once the front wheels sunken in clay mud, and a road working machine pulled me out). I never had and used a winch, once I needed a small “tirefort” to get out of a swamp, but that was with my light weight Suzuki Santana in Ecuador in 1987 (successor the actual Jimny).

So, why did I order the integrated winch:

  • Main reason is my age, I will be about 66 when my Grenadier arrives around March 1, so heavy digging and other stuff gets more and more difficult and tiring, although I still am an active judoka, but not for long anymore.
  • I usually travel alone (I mean, about three times a year really alone, my youngest son lives in Hungary), sometimes with my partner on holidays, therefore almost never with other 4WD who could help me out.
  • I take often “the shortest” way, because it makes me discover the dirt tracks. I love it!
  • I can indeed help other people if I have a winch, nice to be helpful.
  • It doesn’t take space in my back trunk.
  • Safety: I used the “tirefort” in the past to pull out the roots of a tree: a winch is much safer!
  • I didn’t think about this, but read it in this thread: indeed, with an integrated winch you use AND your motor power AND your winch at the same time, even if you are alone, giving you more chance to get out.
  • And I agree, it is like safety belts and air-bags: you hope never to use them, but: If I choose dirt roads, I know I take some calculated risks, like a formula 1 or rally pilot knows that he will probably crash sometimes, I know I could get stuck.
And thanks a lot to all of you for all the tips and tricks!
 

globalgregors

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Bonsoir
Sur mon DEFENDER depuis 2012; je me suis servi trois fois du treuil.
Une première fois pour sortir un RANGE P38 d'une mauvaise situation sur une piste isolée du Maroc.
Une seconde fois pour sortir un DISCO II d'une situation périlleuse dans une rivière au Maroc
Une troisième fois pour me sortir d'une situation périlleuse suite à un écart de couduite.

Cela reste malgré tout un élément important de sécurité pour les autres et parfois pour sois.

Bonne soirée.
It’s always the way with these things. Good on you for helping out on those occasions, I trust your kindness was passed forward.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

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Bonsoir
Sur mon DEFENDER depuis 2012; je me suis servi trois fois du treuil.
Une première fois pour sortir un RANGE P38 d'une mauvaise situation sur une piste isolée du Maroc.
Une seconde fois pour sortir un DISCO II d'une situation périlleuse dans une rivière au Maroc
Une troisième fois pour me sortir d'une situation périlleuse suite à un écart de couduite.

Cela reste malgré tout un élément important de sécurité pour les autres et parfois pour sois.

Bonne soirée.

Pardonnez mon français; Je l'ai appris à l'école publique ici au Canada, mais c'était il y a longtemps, donc je me suis également appuyé sur la vérification avec une application de traduction.

C'est bien de vous arrêter et d'aider les autres; notre humanité commune transcende le langage, et je trouve encourageant de savoir que dans l'arrière-pays, si j'ai des problèmes, il y a des gens comme vous qui m'aideront. L'une de mes devises personnelles est "Toujours saluer un étranger dans un endroit isolé", et il se trouve que j'aime les endroits isolés, donc je suis heureux de rencontrer des étrangers comme vous - surtout quand je suis coincé!

For my English speaking friends, I've just shared:

Pardon my French; I learned in school in Canada but that was a long time ago, and so I have also relied on checking things with a translator app.

It's good of you to stop and help others; our shared humanity transcends language and I find it encouraging to know that if I need help in the backcountry there are folks like you who will help. One of my personal mottos is "always greet a stranger in a lonely place", and I love lonely places, so I'm glad to meet strangers like you - especially when I'm stuck!
 

Deepblue

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Pardonnez mon français; Je l'ai appris à l'école publique ici au Canada, mais c'était il y a longtemps, donc je me suis également appuyé sur la vérification avec une application de traduction.

C'est bien de vous arrêter et d'aider les autres; notre humanité commune transcende le langage, et je trouve encourageant de savoir que dans l'arrière-pays, si j'ai des problèmes, il y a des gens comme vous qui m'aideront. L'une de mes devises personnelles est "Toujours saluer un étranger dans un endroit isolé", et il se trouve que j'aime les endroits isolés, donc je suis heureux de rencontrer des étrangers comme vous - surtout quand je suis coincé!

For my English speaking friends, I've just shared:

Pardon my French; I learned in school in Canada but that was a long time ago, and so I have also relied on checking things with a translator app.

It's good of you to stop and help others; our shared humanity transcends language and I find it encouraging to know that if I need help in the backcountry there are folks like you who will help. One of my personal mottos is "always greet a stranger in a lonely place", and I love lonely places, so I'm glad to meet strangers like you - especially when I'm stuck!
I started reading French text and realized my language memory from school is way worse than yours, so glad to see the English text 😀
 

painter

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Pardonnez mon français; Je l'ai appris à l'école publique ici au Canada, mais c'était il y a longtemps, donc je me suis également appuyé sur la vérification avec une application de traduction.

C'est bien de vous arrêter et d'aider les autres; notre humanité commune transcende le langage, et je trouve encourageant de savoir que dans l'arrière-pays, si j'ai des problèmes, il y a des gens comme vous qui m'aideront. L'une de mes devises personnelles est "Toujours saluer un étranger dans un endroit isolé", et il se trouve que j'aime les endroits isolés, donc je suis heureux de rencontrer des étrangers comme vous - surtout quand je suis coincé!

For my English speaking friends, I've just shared:

Pardon my French; I learned in school in Canada but that was a long time ago, and so I have also relied on checking things with a translator app.

It's good of you to stop and help others; our shared humanity transcends language and I find it encouraging to know that if I need help in the backcountry there are folks like you who will help. One of my personal mottos is "always greet a stranger in a lonely place", and I love lonely places, so I'm glad to meet strangers like you - especially when I'm stuck!
Bien à vous, répondez en français.

Après tout, le Grenadier est fabriqué en France, non ?

Good for you, responding in French.

After all, the Grenadier is made in France, yes ?
 

Jean Mercier

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It's assembled in France.
This is a semantic discussion, the translation is correct: "made in France", "assembled in France" is also correct, but not as a translation. In French it is also "assemblé en France". The difference is peanuts :).
"Made in China" doesn't mean it has been "designed in China", although the Chinese are catching up at a tremendous speed. So for me "made in France" is true. And despite my name, I am not French! :cool:

The Grenadier: born in a beer pub in the UK, looks designed in the UK (I guess), engineered in Austria, Italy, Germany, .... parts coming from everywhere including China and Belgium (almost certain, from an Ineos plant) and of course Germany (the motor); build (made, assembled) in France.
 

emax

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> This is a semantic discussion, the translation is correct

Exactly, it's about semantics: "In linguistics, semantics is the subfield that studies meaning".

The meaning of 'fabriqué' is indeed 'made' or 'fabricated', so the translation seems at first correct. But semantically this is misleading and thus translates to the wrong meaning. There is basically nothing about that car which is fabricated or "made" in France.

> The difference is peanuts

For me, it's not. Like how to fly a flag is not peanuts for others.

And apparently, it's not peanuts enough to keep you from commenting on it.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

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Bien à vous, répondez en français.

Après tout, le Grenadier est fabriqué en France, non ?

Good for you, responding in French.

After all, the Grenadier is made in France, yes ?

Merci pour les mots gentils! L'automobile est vraiment un produit du monde - and now I will 100% rely on a translator in the spirit of what Jean started:

English Design

Assemblee Francaise
French Assembly (French)

Deutscher Motor und Getriebe
German Motor and Transmission (German)

Eixos Portugueses
Portugese Axles (Portugese)

Imeundwa kwa ajili ya hali ya Afrika
Built for the conditions Africa (Swahili)

¡suɐıןɐɹʇsnA ɟo spǝǝu ǝɥʇ ʇǝǝɯ ןןıʍ ʇı ʇɐǝɹƃ ʍoɥ ʇǝƃɹoɟ ʇou s,ʇǝן puA
You guys can figure this one out ;)


;)
 

Max

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> This is a semantic discussion, the translation is correct

Exactly, it's about semantics: "In linguistics, semantics is the subfield that studies meaning".

The meaning of 'fabriqué' is indeed 'made' or 'fabricated', so the translation seems at first correct. But semantically this is misleading and thus translates to the wrong meaning. There is basically nothing about that car which is fabricated or "made" in France.

> The difference is peanuts

For me, it's not. Like how to fly a flag is not peanuts for others.

And apparently, it's not peanuts enough to keep you from commenting on it.
Build, is another word, right in our face...what's the Build Month and who builds them or where are they built? Build is to construct or form by joining parts or materials...happy motoring
 
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DCPU

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My washing machine is assembled, as is my fridge and cooker and furniture from Ikea. In each case they are the sum of the parts used to assemble them.

I'm hoping the Grenadier is different, and is far more than the sum of the parts.

I'm happy if the workers putting the Grenadier together want to then label the product as "Built in". There is a suggestion with the word of a higher level of skill, knowledge and ultimately pride in the final product. If that's the case, please build mine.
 

Tazzieman

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I'm happy if the workers putting the Grenadier together want to then label the product as "Built in". There is a suggestion with the word of a higher level of skill, knowledge and ultimately pride in the final product. If that's the case, please build mine.
Please please build mine first!
 

Max

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My washing machine is assembled, as is my fridge and cooker and furniture from Ikea. In each case they are the sum of the parts used to assemble them.

I'm hoping the Grenadier is different, and is far more than the sum of the parts.

I'm happy if the workers putting the Grenadier together want to then label the product as "Built in". There is a suggestion with the word of a higher level of skill, knowledge and ultimately pride in the final product. If that's the case, please build mine.
What Build Month are you again?;)
 

DCPU

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Autonomous UAV winch trialled at AWE for British Army
FiXGpwxWAAAVtzR.jpeg

I got a little excited until I saw the lift capacity 😂

 
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