Americas USA Buying Process--Beware (dealer vehicle pricing and business practices)

[MM in South TX]

I believe this conversation has been flogged to death. Let's see how this all plays out. Also, as American, I disagree with the notion that the US has a free market. We don't have a free market just a belief system that we have a free market. If we had a free market we would not have subsides for farmers or industries. No bailouts for the market. We would allow anyone to sell brand new cars. We would not have import taxes or duties. To name a few.

Thanks for your help, but I have not been able to find the answer to my specific question in the forum, and I am seeking an answer from someone who has had the conversation with Ineos reps. Reservations only or pre-orders and reservations "price protected" (to the extent of their abilities)? I guess the answer may come in two weeks, but if my pre-order is going to be offered to me at market price by the dealer, I am likely moving on.

 

[Krabby]

Your answer is NO. Ineos has no authority to do such thing and dealers are independent of their respective brands with respect to selling prices, labor rates, etc.

 

[MM in South TX]

Your answer is NO. Ineos has no authority to do such thing and dealers are independent of their respective brands with respect to selling prices, labor rates, etc.

I guess I am not phrasing my question properly, because your answer is about whether Ineos can set the price. I understand that the dealer has ultimate authority to set the price. What I am asking about is something different.

There are multiple comments in the forum about conversations with Ineos reps in which the reps have indicated that there is a gentlemen's agreement that the dealers would hold to MSRP for early adopters. It's not binding. Just some sort of verbal agreement.

Are the comments about dealers holding to MSRP referring to

________ Paid Reservation Holders, or
________Paid Reservation Holders AND Unpaid Pre-Order Holders who just jumped in a few months ago (like me)?

Check one.

Sorry for my ignorance and my failure to communicate the question properly, and please don't take the above presentation as sarcastic in any way. I just needed a way to isolate the question. As stated above, I haven't been on this forum for very long. There may be some nuances about conversion of reservations to pre-orders that I don't understand.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Mr.Espresso]

I guess I am not phrasing my question properly, because your answer is about whether Ineos can set the price. I understand that the dealer has ultimate authority to set the price. What I am asking about is something different.

There are multiple comments in the forum about conversations with Ineos reps in which the reps have indicated that there is a gentlemen's agreement that the dealers would hold to MSRP for early adopters. It's not binding. Just some sort of verbal agreement.

Are the comments about dealers holding to MSRP referring to

________ Paid Reservation Holders, or
________Paid Reservation Holders AND Unpaid Pre-Order Holders who just jumped in a few months ago (like me)?

Check one.

Sorry for my ignorance and my failure to communicate the question properly, and please don't take the above presentation as sarcastic in any way. I just needed a way to isolate the question. As stated above, I haven't been on this forum for very long. There may be some nuances about conversion of reservations to pre-orders that I don't understand.

Thanks for your help.

It is HIGHLY unlikely you will get screwed by a dealer, as a launch / reservation customer. If they try this, just move your reservation over to a new dealer who won’t f**k you over. You already have an allocation from the Ineos Factory, so it’s the dealers loss…

It’s a great question, and nothing to worry about. Especially as the car market has practically imploded and is getting worse each fiscal quarter that passes.

 

[Krabby]

Gotcha. I wasn’t following. FWIW I am pretty sure it will be know which dealers are respecting that and, more notably, those who aren’t. This forum has become the dominant voice for all things Grenadier and I’m sure what’s posted here will carry some weight. So if a member posts that XYZ dealer is asking $5k over list it will be well publicized. Thereafter they may change their tune or 19 other dealers could use that to their advantage.

 

[LC0013]

$2000 + Shipping seems quite a bit since it is only an attachment that connects to the existing bumper (without the side arms to running board).

Seems like a fair price to me and I would happily pay the dealer for one of them if they can get one.

 

[MM in South TX]

Gotcha. I wasn’t following. FWIW I am pretty sure it will be know which dealers are respecting that and, more notably, those who aren’t. This forum has become the dominant voice for all things Grenadier and I’m sure what’s posted here will carry some weight. So if a member posts that XYZ dealer is asking $5k over list it will be well publicized. Thereafter they may change their tune or 19 other dealers could use that to their advantage.

True. And thanks for your efforts here. What you are describing did happen on the F150 Lightning forum. People would travel to other states to buy their trucks at MSRP based on what they read on the forums.

 

[Krabby]

True. And thanks for your efforts here. What you are describing did happen on the F150 Lightning forum. People would travel to other states to buy their trucks at MSRP based on what they read on the forums.

Exactly. I’ll pay $5 grand to travel and get my truck rather than slipping $5k in some greedy dealer’s pocket. At least I’d get something in return for my money.

 

[anand]

I am searching the forum, but can't find the answer, so I will ask here. In the US, people have mentioned conversations with Ineos in which the Ineos personnel indicate that the dealers will honor the MSRP for certain early adopters. Does this refer only to the Reservation holders who paid the $450, or does it also include people like me who pre-ordered a few months ago, but have not paid a reservation fee. All I did was configure a vehicle. I now have a pre-order number and Q1 build date.

The comments regarding ensuring MSRP have always been "for reservation holders" explicitly; but then again, that was also during the PTO2 tour, and thus if you were there you were (most likely) a reservation holder.

Clearly there are a lot of opinions here but no one actually knows the truth. In America, the free market allows dealers to do anything they want. It is sad that Ineos is not protecting those of use who put money down two yeas ago and have been quite patient.

As @ADVAW8S stated, this has been beaten to death. The traditional dealer methodology is a much more simple pathway in the US, and subsequently, the company (Ineos) has no legal way of setting dealer prices. Two years ago there were no prices, and there are plenty of reservation holders who have only joined the queue within the past 6 months

 

[stratego]

If anyone wants to understand how little Ineos can do, look through your states dealer franchise laws. Most states look like this:

-Ineos cannot sell directly to consumers and must use franchised dealers
-Ineos may not own any share of a dealership or have any legal control of a dealer
-Ineos may not tell dealers how much to sell for or who to sell for
-Ineos cannot even set up a program that directly reaches out to customers and sets prices (see CarebyVolvo suits)
-Ineos may not retaliate against a dealer who upsets them via altering allocations, pricing, etc
-Ineos may not alter allocations without sound business reasoning (ie. Dealers can take you to court over allocations)
-Ineos may not revoke the franchise sort of outright felonies committed by dealership management, and even then, they can sell before the hammer drops
-Ineos cannot interfere with the sale of the dealership franchise to another party

The laws vary state to state, but are generally stacked on the dealer side

 

[DaveB]

If anyone wants to understand how little India can do, look through your states dealer franchise laws. Most states look like this:

-Ineos cannot sell directly to consumers and must use franchised dealers
-Ineos may not own any share of a dealership or have any legal control of a dealer
-Ineos may not tell dealers how much to sell for or who to sell for
-Ineos cannot even set up a program that directly reaches out to customers and sets prices (see CarebyVolvo suits)
-Ineos may not retaliate against a dealer who upsets them via altering allocations, pricing, etc
-Ineos may not alter allocations without sound business reasoning (ie. Dealers can take you to court over allocations)
-Ineos may not revoke the franchise sort of outright felonies committed by dealership management, and even then, they can sell before the hammer drops
-Ineos cannot interfere with the sale of the dealership franchise to another party

The laws vary state to state, but are generally stacked on the dealer side

the land of the free????

 

[anand]

the land of the free????

Shhhhhh we're free as long as we think we are

 

[LC0013]

the land of the free????

In the middle of a United States presidential election season, candidates are prone to talking about how the U.S. is the greatest country on earth. But when it comes to the rule of law, the U.S. may have some work to do, according to a new survey.
The U.S. ranks 18th among 113 countries in terms of how the rule of law is experienced by citizens, according to the World Justice Project's 2016 Rule of Law Index.

UK was #10 with Denmark #1

That is according to US News in 2016 and, it has not got any better for any of us since then.

 

[Tom109]

Are roo's that much of a problem in the US?

Strangely until Ineos started referring to a "ROO" bar I had never heard anyone use the term.
They are commonly called "BULL" bars here in Australia.

Not roo's, but white-tailed deer. I'd venture to say they are as bad as roo's in your worst affected areas. I always put ARB bars on my coil-sprung LR's for this very reason.

 

[MTNDOG]

Not roo's, but white-tailed deer. I'd venture to say they are as bad as roo's in your worst affected areas. I always put ARB bars on my coil-sprung LR's for this very reason.

And the occasional Moose, Elk and Antelope.

 

[YellowLab]

I know the Roo-Bar is not coming to the US model.
Will it be available for the US market as an option?

I have contacted EGR who is HQ'd in Ontario, CA. Their subsidiary in Asia makes the Roo Bar that Ineos uses. I've not been able to get much info beyond 'once we see vehicles hit the US, they will offer the option as they do for so many others makes." Sounds like a waiting game for a bit...I have tried emailing IG dealers in AUS to see if we can order and ship to the US but none have responded. If any AUS people see this can can recommend a dealer that will respond - I'd be glad to reach out.

 

[ADVAW8S]

I have contacted EGR who is HQ'd in Ontario, CA. Their subsidiary in Asia makes the Roo Bar that Ineos uses. I've not been able to get much info beyond 'once we see vehicles hit the US, they will offer the option as they do for so many others makes." Sounds like a waiting game for a bit...I have tried emailing IG dealers in AUS to see if we can order and ship to the US but none have responded. If any AUS people see this can can recommend a dealer that will respond - I'd be

I would say SLRV expedition is our best Aussie option. @DaveB Has a connection, I believe.

 

[DaveB]

I would say SLRV expedition is our best Aussie option. @DaveB Has a connection, I believe.

 

[DaveB]

Not roo's, but white-tailed deer. I'd venture to say they are as bad as roo's in your worst affected areas. I always put ARB bars on my coil-sprung LR's for this very reason.

So do you call them deer bars?

 

[Jiman01]

BuckBusters