Towing and Payload: Gren vs. Others

[Chester]

There ere a lot of comments about the payload being low but I can't find them.
When they were talking about 1,000 kg payload I have no idea what spec they were talking about.
Now they have the following
So the Station wagon petrol in trialmaster has 764kg payload which seems low however they have already allowed for 

• 80kgs of fuel
• The extra battery & wiring/management
• Wiring to extra outlets around the vehicle
• high capacity switch panel plus wiring
• difflocks
• trailer hitch 
• raised air intake 

I guess that is about 130kgs that doesn't need to be added later .
So it is closing in on 900kgs equivalent payload.  

  

you can also include the steel front bar which is standard. I was told during the prototype tour day I attended that the roo bar is just an tubular steel add on to the existing steel front bumper bar. This should be a fair bit lighter than adding a roo bar in a vehicle which normally only has a plastic front bumper bar. You might also get away without a roof rack.. looks like items like swags could be tied directly down to the roof. 

 

[DaveB]

Hi. I am going to put the roof rack cross bars on so I can add a 270 awning but will need to position the front one so it doesn't obstruct the safari windows.  If it will go in front of the safari windows I may add the LED light bar as I will be doing a fair bit of driving on country roads at night. If not I will just add some aftermarket lights to the roo bar. Rony Dahl & Wild Touring have some good youtube posts on payload and using their figures I have less than 400kgs to add to the base Fieldmaster spec so about half the available payload capacity. That was allowing 80kgs for the roo bar which is probably a lot higher than it will be. 

 

[stickshifter]

There ere a lot of comments about the payload being low but I can't find them.
When they were talking about 1,000 kg payload I have no idea what spec they were talking about.
Now they have the following
So the Station wagon petrol in trialmaster has 764kg payload which seems low however they have already allowed for 

• 80kgs of fuel
• The extra battery & wiring/management
• Wiring to extra outlets around the vehicle
• high capacity switch panel plus wiring
• difflocks
• trailer hitch 
• raised air intake 

I guess that is about 130kgs that doesn't need to be added later .
So it is closing in on 900kgs equivalent payload.  
 
 
   

I agree - Ineos is being really transparent and fair-minded with how they are presenting payload and other vehicle specs. Most other manufacturers are not this transparent, and some deliberately present specs based on max possibilities - which are almost never how the vehicles end up getting purchased.

Two items not covered in the Trialmaster payload, are rock sliders, and the winch. Both are options that many people will not buy, so the way Ineos presents the payload makes sense. Its just worth noting that these items (together) will weigh somewhere between 140-180 pounds (depending on construction). So that would be another 75 kg reduction to the payload, should one opt for these items.

 

[DaveB]

Someone asked about data on Roo bar but this was all I could find  

 

 

[bakepl]

Thanks for that Dave, no mention if the roo bar has an aerial mount, hopefully it has.   I'm not sure where their 'folding aerial mount' goes, perhaps it attaches to the roof rack?

 

[DaveB]

Looking at the comparison below the bar just bolts straight onto the existing bumper so the airbag sensor and the parking sensors won't be effected. 
The bumper sticks out a long way and I think the bar makes it look less like it needs a nose job.
This should also allow plenty of depth to mount lights behind it so they have some protection. 
   

   

 

[ADVAW8S]

Bakepl.  If you go to rhino website you see it's roof rack accessory 

 

[DaveB]

I am not a fan of Rhino Rack products as they are not very robust.
As I want to fit a 30 Second or Bush Company 270 Free Standing Awning I will probably get the Rhino cross bars as I assume the gutter mount fittings might be made to suit the extreme height of the Grenadier gutter to roof measurement.

 

[Davman]

With you on this on Dave, Bush Company 270 is the way to go

 

[easycass]

I reserved my Grenadier way back when, and was initially interested in the dual cab, but having recently looked into how we normally camp, I am thinking of making our next 4by a live-in camper type, very similar to what many people do with Troopcarriers. Now, I see many people discussing payload etc, and thought I'd throw some actual figures at the discussion, just for interest's sake...

Based on my 30 years off-road travelling and three full trips around Australia in various vehicles ( 2 Nissan Patrols, a Toyota FJ40, LC 60 Series, and 2 LC 200 Series), here is the breakdown of our weights for multi-week remote outback travel: -

2 people, 100+ l water, 250+ l fuel, provisions, tools, spares - Weight 540kg
Bullbar, snorkel, 16in wheels, 33+ in tyres, 2 inch lift, rock-sliders, extra spare wheel/tyre + carrier, LR fuel tank, diff-locks - Weight 300kg
Fridge. inverter, cooking gear, extra wiring/fuses/switches/gauges, batteries, solar-panels, DC-DC/solar charger - Weight 100kg
Inside storage kit-out, including shelving, boxes, slides, stove/sink, plus roof-top rack/tent (or roof-conversion), awning, toilet, shower - Weight 300kg

So, we get around 1240kg fully loaded.  The Grenadier has almost equivalent weight specs to the LC 200 Series, which needs a GVM upgrade to 3.8-4T to be used as a touring vehicle. So, for us, this means there are three major things that do not seem to be available for the Grenadier at launch: -

GVM upgrade to 4T
Long-Range Tank giving more than 250 litres
Dual spare-wheel carrier

This sort of set-up is not needed by everyone, as shorter trips can be easily accomplished with a swag, extra spare and supplies thrown in the back, but to do it comfortably, long-term, a well-organised set-up with all the gear works well when we are doing multi-week Canning Stock Route and Simpson desert type trips.

If just for shorter trips, if one goes just with the 80l tank, drops the water to 40L, and cut down a bit on the equipment, tools, spares and in-side fitout, yep, it can come in at the standard payload limit of course.

As I said, just a few thoughts...

 

[DaveB]

270 XT Max looks the go
Hopefully someone will come up with a draw system for the back. 
My local distributor SLRV Expedition Vehicles said they were working on it already 
The fold down camp table looks the goods and I might get a small camp table. 
Add a single propane burner and a portable Wacaco espresso maker  and my Moka pot and my coffee needs are met
Something to boil water for a cup of tea for my wife when she is with me.
Either a Waeco fridge or a good quality cooler 
I have good camp chairs now and we can either throw my wifes rigid SUP Board on the  racks or her inflatable SUP board in the back.  
Sunday drive and we can stop wherever we want, whenever we want and be good to relax in 15 minutes. 

Also be great for my work when I need to get the laptop out to catch up on emails etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V_8WhlhkVg

 

[DaveB]

I reserved my Grenadier way back when, and was initially interested in the dual cab, but having recently looked into how we normally camp, I am thinking of making our next 4by a live-in camper type, very similar to what many people do with Troopcarriers. Now, I see many people discussing payload etc, and thought I'd throw some actual figures at the discussion, just for interest's sake...

Based on my 30 years off-road travelling and three full trips around Australia in various vehicles ( 2 Nissan Patrols, a Toyota FJ40, LC 60 Series, and 2 LC 200 Series), here is the breakdown of our weights for multi-week remote outback travel: -

2 people, 100+ l water, 250+ l fuel, provisions, tools, spares - Weight 540kg
Bullbar, snorkel, 16in wheels, 33+ in tyres, 2 inch lift, rock-sliders, extra spare wheel/tyre + carrier, LR fuel tank, diff-locks - Weight 300kg
Fridge. inverter, cooking gear, extra wiring/fuses/switches/gauges, batteries, solar-panels, DC-DC/solar charger - Weight 100kg
Inside storage kit-out, including shelving, boxes, slides, stove/sink, plus roof-top rack/tent (or roof-conversion), awning, toilet, shower - Weight 300kg

So, we get around 1240kg fully loaded.  The Grenadier has almost equivalent weight specs to the LC 200 Series, which needs a GVM upgrade to 3.8-4T to be used as a touring vehicle. So, for us, this means there are three major things that do not seem to be available for the Grenadier at launch: -

GVM upgrade to 4T
Long-Range Tank giving more than 250 litres
Dual spare-wheel carrier

This sort of set-up is not needed by everyone, as shorter trips can be easily accomplished with a swag, extra spare and supplies thrown in the back, but to do it comfortably, long-term, a well-organised set-up with all the gear works well when we are doing multi-week Canning Stock Route and Simpson desert type trips.

As I said, just a few thoughts...

SLRV Expedition Vehicles mentioned they were planning lift kits but I can't remember if they said GVM Upgrades but it does seem a logical step. 
If the long wheelbase version is going to be another 12 - 18 months it gives plenty of time for planning 

 

[Davman]

SLR may well be developing suspension upgrades, but I think GVM upgrades coming from an after market /dealership position would be quite some time coming.  The R&D engineering dollars wouldn't be worth it for these guys based on the volumes would be horrendous.

We need to let INEOS Australia know that there is a huge market in Australia for a higher payload. Hopefully then, they can arrange one, even if it is an optional extra for us all. Hopefully they hear the message and ask Head Office for more.

This is another is big reason why they should, as it's main competitors have GVM upgrade options ready to go already that can be done prior to first registration. These Toyota competitors are the ones that INEOS are hoping to steal overland, camping, towing customers from, and without more payload options for many years - then they will have their hands further tied until they do provide more payload.

 

[easycass]

SLR may well be developing suspension upgrades, but I think GVM upgrades coming from an after market /dealership position would be quite some time coming.  The R&D engineering dollars wouldn't be worth it for these guys based on the volumes would be horrendous.

Yep, I think that will be the case for so many things we are used to having, which includes winch-compatible bull-bars and GVM upgrades, both requiring a huge commitment by aftermarket suppliers along with the ADR certification after extensive testing. The fuel tank issue too; just cannot understand the small size of the tank. I am not sure how this one thing 'slipped through' all the worldwide prototype testing. Surely it is not just Aussies that need more fuel than this?

All of these things, despite my early reserve and interest, may give me cause to wait a fair while before getting one of these, which is a bit of a shame.

 

[Davman]

At least this Forum is a quick way of INEOS Australia realising what they got right, but also what they are still missing.

We are the ones that will be generating the interest in the wider community for their cars, and are the main ones interested in the Grenadier.

I would be thinking they are VERY VERY interested in what we have to say, and keeping us onside.

Another fuel tank needs more payload/GVM - another reason to increase it.

 

[DaveB]

GVM Upgrades are not all that difficult provided you follow the rules and make sure the engineering behind the upgrade is done by someone who is approved to do it and also the company doing the installation is approved to do that work. 
Companies like Pedders, Ironman, Lovells, ARB will develop the packages fairly easily, Getting a vehicle to work on might be a harder problem. 
Out of the 1,000 Grenadiers they expect to sell next year  I would be surprised if 100 would go for a GVM upgrade.
Getting insurance companies who are willing to cover the vehicle in standard form might be enough of a problem.



Upgrading your GVM requires fitting a new, stronger suspension system to the vehicle. The brakes and axles should be in good condition – an approved engineer will need to check the compliance plate and individual axle weights on your vehicle before any modifications can be done. Once testing and inspection has been completed, a GVM upgrade kit can be fitted to your vehicle. When the GVM upgrade kit has been installed the vehicle will be inspected by an authorised automotive engineer in your state and you will be issued with a compliance certificate

 

[Davman]

If can tell you that EVERYONE will go for a GVM upgrade option if it saves them $10,000 plus plus in taxes.

Even if a GVM upgrade option costs $2,500 to uprate the springs and shocks. Surely the axles and brakes would be up to handling another few hundred kg.  Lovells and ARB GVM upgrades to the LC200 dont change the brakes.

If you dont like the ride after the GVM Upgrade, then buy the standard springs and shocks, put them back in the Grenadier, and you will still save yourself thousands and thousands.

 

[DaveB]

With you on this on Dave, Bush Company 270 is the way to go

I sent an email to Bush Company at 2.18pm today asking if they were looking at fitting their awning to the Grenadier and they called me at 4.15 pm very interested
They have not even looked at the Grenadier but think it would be a great platform for their products
Told me they definitely did not recommend the Rhino product but at the very least the heavy duty cross bars might be "OK" 
They recommended Frontrunner  heavy duty bars 

 

[Davman]

I sent an email to Bush Company at 2.18pm today asking if they were looking at fitting their awning to the Grenadier and they called me at 4.15 pm very interested
They have not even looked at the Grenadier but think it would be a great platform for their products
Told me they definitely did not recommend the Rhino product but at the very least the heavy duty cross bars might be "OK" 
They recommended Frontrunner  heavy duty bars 

Now, we just need them to integrate the 270 Awning with their roof top tent, and make is so we can use the rear lNEOS ladder toa ccess the tent?
Again, need more Payload though.

 

[DaveB]

They can mount their awning directly to their roof top tents and they also have mountings for lightbars and worklights on their tents.