Top Gear Magazine review and online review (UK)

“For all it owes to the Defender and G-Wagen, the Ineos Grenadier has lots of character of its own”

Ineos Grenadier Review 2023 | Top Gear

For all it owes to the Defender and G-Wagen, the Ineos Grenadier has lots of character of its own

www.topgear.com

 

[Davman]

Realistically, all any of us really want from these reviews is an opinion on how it functions and handles on the road - as this is what we have been unable to test to date.
So in my book the TG review is a fantastic one.

 

[grenadierboy]

Top Gear are more road/track biased, the article was interesting but no real substance about its off-road performance. Any road focused journo who is not passionate about the basic Grenadier philosophy is automatically going to deduct heavily just for the RHD foot rest and driving position issue.
Will be more interesting to see the reaction from the 4x4 focused outlets.

Agree - Of course we don't know what off roading experience the Top Gear reviewer(s) have but, clearly they review a wide spectrum of mainstream vehicles.

Having said that, here are some Top Gear review ratings:

Toyota LC: 5/10
Mercedes G Wagen: 8/10
Land Rover Defender: 9/10
Jeep Wrangler: 7/10
Jeep Gladiator: 8/10

 

[Jeremy996]

The Top Gear review is not one I am too fussed about. TG's favourite cars are always road biased, fast and moderately plush, so the Grenadier was never going to do too well out of it, @grenadierboy's table makes that pretty clear.

I am waiting for the CAR, Land Rover Owner International and Land Rover Monthly reviews, (the latter two may not do one as they are a little conflicted). I'd be interested in the opinions of others as to what would be worth reading when they come out.

I am a subscriber for my three suggestions, so I hope to get the reviews soon.

 

[Eric]

The Top Gear review is not one I am too fussed about. TG's favourite cars are always road biased, fast and moderately plush, so the Grenadier was never going to do too well out of it, @grenadierboy's table makes that pretty clear.

I am waiting for the CAR, Land Rover Owner International and Land Rover Monthly reviews, (the latter two may not do one as they are a little conflicted). I'd be interested in the opinions of others as to what would be worth reading when they come out.

I am a subscriber for my three suggestions, so I hope to get the reviews soon.

I can see LRO and LRM doing a " one liner" review but I would be surprised if they were in among the Scottish journo pack. They would be in a no win situation, good review~ there goes their rason detra; bad review ~ seen as sour grapes.

 

[Jeremy996]

LRM has a brand new editor, so their attitude will be interesting, the previous one was 'anti' but one of the contributors/writers seemed keen, so more got published than I expected.

Land Rover Monthly October 2022 (UK).

Mark Evan has a conversation with Gary Pusey and they have a drive about in a prototype. Mark Evans is a fan, (even if he was paid to do the reveal films).

www.theineosforum.com

Coverage in CAR magazine January 2022

A couple of bits of coverage in the MSM, or at least the car press. CAR magazine, January 2022, pages 52 and 85.

www.theineosforum.com

 

[emax]

Land Rover Defender: 9/10

That makes the review imho less concerning. If they want electronic nannies, the Grenadier is not for them.

 

[grenadierboy]

That makes the review imho less concerning. If they want electronic nannies, the Grenadier is not for them.

Reading the TG review again, my impression is the reviewer thinks Grenadier is a vanity project of Sir Jim.

The review it was basically perfunctory, listing the key features; doesn't really like the design that much (too old school for 2023??) and clearly is not into off roading, so I agree to put the review to oneside.

 

[klarie]

Reading the TG review again, my impression is the reviewer thinks Grenadier is a vanity project of Sir Jim.

The review it was basically perfunctory, listing the key features; doesn't really like the design that much (too old school for 2023??) and clearly is not into off roading, so I agree to put the review to oneside.

perhaps. Seriously.. Sir Jim.. has quite a detector for markets. I like the design.. indeed the picture where New Defender and Grenadier side by side - the Grendier looks more "Senior" .. been there done that.. while the Defender reminds me more to a toy of a computer game. Top Gear reviewer did not understand what it is all about. Time will tell.

 

[stickshifter]

Like many, I'm not too concerned about the TG review, and I don't care what they think of the new Defender. That is not the kind of vehicle I'm in the market for. However, it does bother me a bit, that they gave the Grenadier the same score as the Wrangler (both were given a 7/10), since these are two vehicles with similar overall design (despite many differences) - body on frame, solid axles, transfer case with low range, 5-link suspension. I love Wranglers, but I'm getting a Grenadier because I no longer want to deal with some of the downsides of Wrangler ownership. So I'd like to know more about how they come to these numbers. Is it just a seat-of-the-pants thing? Like "oh, this feels like a 7" or are there specific criteria that they score in a way that is actually objective?

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

The Top Gear brand has certainly changed. I remember the days when Hammond would give us viewers a run-down of an armoured car in the UAE with 4" thick bulletproof glass, and he reviewed it or discussed it very well, because for the kind of person who wants a car like that, that car was pretty fantastic. I know the magazine is different from the show but the perspective of the reviewer -- and their ability to speak to a vehicles strengths and quality for its target market - is critical to any review.

Calling the Grenadier too "old school" as a critique is a good example of what I'm talking about - it's MEANT to be "Old School" in so far as it's bush fixability and go-anywhere simplicity. So if the reviewer attitude changed from that being a critique to that being a mark in its favour, how many numbers more would they have rated it? And they're knock about the E-Lockers taking a moment to engage; that's true of e-lockers in general. The ones in the Wrangler/Gladiator rubicon take a few seconds to engage (and only in 4-Lo). I would often have to be in neutral, flick the locker switch, and then ease my foot off the brake pedal until they clicked in and engaged. In my experience, my wheels never needed to rotate more than a degree or two for the lockers to engage. It's not ideal, but knowing how to operate them makes this critique a little less valid in my opinion.

I'm with @stickshifter -- matching the Wrangler is more what I'm curious about, but I don't think they have a standardized scoring rubric that I'm aware of -- X points for these features, Y points for these features, etc. That would actually give us a chance to compare them side by side. For instance, how many points went into the things we know the Grenadier has the wrangler on the ropes for, like payload and roof load? Without that info it's really hard to give the final score much credibility, and the narrative of the article doesn't have much substance to make me concerned.

 

[stickshifter]

The Top Gear brand has certainly changed. I remember the days when Hammond would give us viewers a run-down of an armoured car in the UAE with 4" thick bulletproof glass, and he reviewed it or discussed it very well, because for the kind of person who wants a car like that, that car was pretty fantastic. I know the magazine is different from the show but the perspective of the reviewer -- and their ability to speak to a vehicles strengths and quality for its target market - is critical to any review.

Calling the Grenadier too "old school" as a critique is a good example of what I'm talking about - it's MEANT to be "Old School" in so far as it's bush fixability and go-anywhere simplicity. So if the reviewer attitude changed from that being a critique to that being a mark in its favour, how many numbers more would they have rated it? And they're knock about the E-Lockers taking a moment to engage; that's true of e-lockers in general. The ones in the Wrangler/Gladiator rubicon take a few seconds to engage (and only in 4-Lo). I would often have to be in neutral, flick the locker switch, and then ease my foot off the brake pedal until they clicked in and engaged. In my experience, my wheels never needed to rotate more than a degree or two for the lockers to engage. It's not ideal, but knowing how to operate them makes this critique a little less valid in my opinion.

I'm with @stickshifter -- matching the Wrangler is more what I'm curious about, but I don't think they have a standardized scoring rubric that I'm aware of -- X points for these features, Y points for these features, etc. That would actually give us a chance to compare them side by side. For instance, how many points went into the things we know the Grenadier has the wrangler on the ropes for, like payload and roof load? Without that info it's really hard to give the final score much credibility, and the narrative of the article doesn't have much substance to make me concerned.

Exactly! I can imagine the Grenadier absolutely crushing the Wrangler in some areas (payload, roof-load, low-end torque, acceleration in general, noise-level in the cabin) so does this mean that they scored the Wrangler higher in other areas (so that the final scores were the same)? Apart from suspension articulation (nothing in the new-vehicle market beats the Rubicon when its front anti-sway bar is disconnected) - where would the Wrangler outscore the Grenadier? This makes me think its just a seat-of-the-pants scoring system.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

The author of this article breaks their rating system down quite well. A few years old article but still applicable I think.

How Objective Is Top Gear’s Rating System?

As I mentioned recently, I have been leafing through the Top Gear 2016 Car Buyers [sic] Guide. I made an interesting discovery. Top Gear provides a rating for every car they review, graded as marks…

driventowrite.com

 

[grenadierboy]

The author of this article breaks their rating system down quite well. A few years old article but still applicable I think.

How Objective Is Top Gear’s Rating System?

As I mentioned recently, I have been leafing through the Top Gear 2016 Car Buyers [sic] Guide. I made an interesting discovery. Top Gear provides a rating for every car they review, graded as marks…

driventowrite.com

Thanks Stu.

This article postulates that TG reviews seem to be more biased towards sports cars than others and I guess esp. off road cars

 

[Stu_Barnes]

“Drives almost as well as a G class” is the important comment I’ll take from this.

Sad they didn’t mention any approach break over or departure angles in reference to the new defender, but there you go and where was the commentary about gearing and low range.

I think I’ll take the lack of place to put your phone if the cup holders are doing their job and the G class reference together with comment about the BMW gearbox control and wait for the off-road press, or maybe “horse and hounds”

 

[Tazzieman]

Funny how you don't see G wagens doing hardstuff offroad. In Australia at least. But also perhaps they are influencrr cars nowadays.
Way too much luxobargy for me!

 

[stickshifter]

The author of this article breaks their rating system down quite well. A few years old article but still applicable I think.

How Objective Is Top Gear’s Rating System?

As I mentioned recently, I have been leafing through the Top Gear 2016 Car Buyers [sic] Guide. I made an interesting discovery. Top Gear provides a rating for every car they review, graded as marks…

driventowrite.com

Great - thanks for providing this. I'm not a TG reader, so all I've seen are the pages that were posted on this forum.

I'd still like to read the full review of both the Grenadier and the Wrangler. In this comparison, neither car would benefit from a bias toward sports cars, and - as far as comparisons go - this is "apples to apples" - despite the two vehicles having differences. In the new car market in North America today, no other vehicle is as similar to the Grenadier as the Wrangler (the G-Wagon now has independent front suspension, as does the Bronco; the new Defender is world's different, etc.).

As I wrote in a previous post: "I can imagine the Grenadier absolutely crushing the Wrangler in some areas (payload, roof-load, low-end torque, acceleration in general, noise-level in the cabin) so does this mean that they scored the Wrangler higher in other areas (so that the final scores were the same)? Apart from suspension articulation (nothing in the new-vehicle market beats the Rubicon when its front anti-sway bar is disconnected) - where would the Wrangler outscore the Grenadier?

 

[Stu_Barnes]

One thing I will say is I’m glad to finally be able to read some driving reviews of the Grenadier. Bring on the rest

 

[AnD3rew]

Funny how you don't see G wagens doing hardstuff offroad. In Australia at least. But also perhaps they are influencrr cars nowadays.

Way too much luxobargy for me!

I think that’s mainly down to price and models sold here, they don’t sell the basic versions to the public here so the cheapest you can buy one is well over $200k and they go up to very high $300s and beyond for AMG versions.

 

[Max]

One thing I will say is I’m glad to finally be able to read some driving reviews of the Grenadier. Bring on the rest

The finished production model reviews...how exciting...we will not have to go through all of how the car was perceived jargon...and/or just skip the intro and straight to the meat of the matter...can't wait.

 

[globalgregors]

Funny how you don't see G wagens doing hardstuff offroad. In Australia at least. But also perhaps they are influencrr cars nowadays.
Way too much luxobargy for me!

Depends on which G-Wagen you're thinking about, I presume we're ignoring the ~2,300 of them painted in camouflage.
When the utilitarian G-Wagen Professionals (W461) were on sale it seemed they were largely taken up by off-road users, albeit not of the 4WD 24-7 variety.

Pretty much $130K base scared folks off I think, noting that this was good buying if one tracked the spec sheet.

The G400d and G63 (W463s) are firmly at the luxury end of the spectrum and surely not the first choice for hard rural use.
One of the Ineos chaps here was responsible for the G model line, had a very interesting chat with him about how the spec shifted (bifurcated) over the years. I don't think you're alone in that view.