New Year Service Overdue Bug

[skinny_tom]

Car software is hard. That's why VW/Audi spent $5 Billion to get access to Rivian's software. VW realized that they were failing in trying to develop it themselves.

That being said, I still agree with you that the software in the Grenadier sucks. Just because its hard doesn't mean they get a pass. I would have been completely fine with analogue gauges and HVAC.

I think this also relates back to how manufacturers source their parts from different vendors, then make software to fit. Whereas Rivian has been deliberately reducing the number of separate modules. I would imagine the volume of their production allows a relatively quick pivot when new changes come along as well. And if they're doing all their work in-house instead of farming it out like most legacy manufacturers (and Ineos) then there's that as well.

 

[[ Adam ]]

I think this also relates back to how manufacturers source their parts from different vendors, then make software to fit. Whereas Rivian has been deliberately reducing the number of separate modules. I would imagine the volume of their production allows a relatively quick pivot when new changes come along as well. And if they're doing all their work in-house instead of farming it out like most legacy manufacturers (and Ineos) then there's that as well.

Automotive technology is highly regulated - I'm curious whether in the quest to simplify their implementation, they may have stumbled upon a software architecture that requires them to homologate the software for even minor updates and bug fixes.

Also - low level date handling is unlikely to have originated with Ineos developers and programming. This is most likely an issue with the OEM - in this case, Neusoft.

 

[landmannnn]

Automotive technology is highly regulated - I'm curious whether in the quest to simplify their implementation, they may have stumbled upon a software architecture that requires them to homologate the software for even minor updates and bug fixes.

A classic example being the fine GM received in 1995. Apparently the Cadillac cars tended to stall at idle with the AC on, so GM increased the idle speed. Seems logical.

However since this increased emissions slightly they received a fine of $11m, had to recall all the affected cars at over $25m and pay out another $9m.

I don't believe all patches will require homologation, but any manufacturer will have to be very cautious with their software updates.

 

[Rupert]

Mine never stalled with the A/C on at idle! LOL, here I am in it with a couple of my croanies:

 

[Rupert]

429 Cubic Inches of gas guzzling love.

 

[Kinglenario]

What kind of software companies do you own? You’ve described some stuff I am not experiencing with mine. You might have a lemon in your hands. How is it that you are US based and still dealing with speed limit alerts. Did you not get your updated software yet?

They updated the speed limit thing after like 1.5 years. Pretty sure the adas Christmas tree is normal with Speed assist limited function and traction control on speed bumps. Also the occasional trailer light malfunction and poor climate control.

 

[Bluesurf]

2003d

 

[TheDocAUS]

TALLY (updated and complied by the unpaid expendable gofer*)
Krabby 1492 days
ResponsiblyReckless 1625 days
Chook 1840 days
anti 1841 days
Itsdchz 1841 days, first US car with the pox
Dlucky 1851 days
BrandonADV 1852 days
TahoeGren 1852 days
Rocky 1856 days
Bjoern 1864 days
Znarfgh 1864 days
PB60 1865 days
Pat-Ard 1868 days
Rok Dr 1869 days
Tx246 1872 days
WanderingSniper 1872 days
Malkay 1875 days
Sonoranrover 1875 days
linksk9rig 1877 day
BluDawg 1879 days
Shopkeep 1879 days
rabia 1879 days
XxShantilisxX 1880 days
mji111 1880 days
PNW IG 1881 days
csjeeper 1884 days
donnygreygrenadier 1885
Michael H 1889 days
Guy 1890 days
Robt 1890 days
Chem409 1890 days
Blackwolf 1891 days
Duncan McDonald 1892 days
Deon 1893 days
joejet 1894 days
grnamin 1897 days
TimeosYoc 1899 days
Korg 1899 days
LPT FSJ 1900 days
GrenADV 1901 days
Green Gren 1903 days
stefan.schaefer.de 1906 days
Grumpy 1906 days
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HeavyFoot 1915 days
pedrogb 1915 days
Tom Ireland 1916 days
FlyersFan76 1917 days
Jax F1 Dave 1917 days
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Woody 1919 days
UncleBuck 1924 days
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Voader O 1925 days
OGrid 1927 days
singlefin 1927 days
Green 1928 days
DrahthaarGuide 1929 days
WhiteBear 1931 days, first car outside ANZ
ecohen2 1932 days
oilpresuure 1933 days
Forefun 1933 days
Happyoldgit 1933 days
DaveB 1935 days
OkGo 1937 days
prezioson 1940 days
NixGrenadier 1940 days
Rupert 1941 days
Gerrymac 1944 days
Peterr's neighour 1944 days
ddv 1945 days (Aug 2023)
Tergosa 1946 days
Rudilf 1948 days
Johnb 1950 days
Fred 1950 days
pmatusov 1953 days
Antgil 1953 days
TheBMcCann 1953 days
Camilondo 1953 days
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Knoe 1955 days
rickydoc 1961 days
Peterr 1961 days
IG Pop 1967 days
Jeremy966 1967 days
Ex-defender driver 1968 days
TheDocAUS 1968 days (Feb 2024)
shekesc 1969 days
SilverNZ 1971 days
Joe B 1971 days
Denis M 1975 days
Augustin 1979 days
Telliottaus 1980 days
rwhitinger's better half 1981 days
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joejet 1989 days
Mohs9 1989 days
MattG 1989 days
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Clark Kent 2367 days
tnkatoy 2362 days
C-Mack 2458 days
Jorda 2503 days
DeepCJ7 2651 days
mirwantandyo 2668 days
rwhitinger 6410 days

SUMMARY
183 members and an additional 3 members with no alert (4 if you include some chap in Townsville).

No change to first or last place. A photo is needed if you are claiming a new low or new high.

DO NOTHING FOR THE MOMENT

Post in thread 'New Year Service Overdue Bug'

Monday at 1:35 PM

I spoke with my Australian service manager today (my last few days here in AU). He said Ineos had advised them not to reset the service warning just yet as they don’t yet know what caused the fault so don’t know how long the reset would last or what else it might screw up if the service people simply just reset it. Although the mechanics already had reset some local customers they won’t do any more until they get the green light or a fix from Ineos.

• RY-Journeyman

• 
• 
• 

* Wednesday's unpaid expendable gofer.

View: https://youtu.be/F9CdkjLrEt8

 

[Glen]

It seems like this conversation is in danger of veering off into personal attacks. So I'll make a general statement not aimed at anyone in particular but certainly pertinent to the statements made by several people here. Then I'll be leaving this particular thought for more fruitful discussions.

In my experience, people who minimize the effort needed to solve complex problems usually have motivations - that they're often trying to hide - that detract from a high-quality outcome.

So when someone says, for example, "automotive software is simple to design, implement and maintain," I question their motivation and doubt they have an improved product at the top of their priority list.

And if the “Service overdue…” message - or any similar shortcoming - has left your life in shambles, the logical next step is to sell your Ineos and purchase one of the many entirely problem-free vehicles that other manufacturers reliably produce at amazingly affordable prices.

Over and out.

 

[Tenac]

It is okay to insist on high standards from a automotive company as well. Long standing solutions have been in place for automotive design and software. With Ineos taking the bare minimal approach and not over complex the tech, one would assume that software wise it would have been industry standards in place not one of solutioning. However none of us truly know if Ineos just 3rd party the hell out of the software or are they in house? So controls might not be in place for these issues, like for instance requesting a 3rd party to respond, Ineos being at the mercy of their timeline even though they are the customer that company can only do what they can do. If it is in house it might actually explain much more, them trying to get creative and avoid using what already works might be the choice they took. How ever not one person here knows truly how that inner workings are done. Just my two cents well 1.5 cents.

 

[scottg]

It seems like this conversation is in danger of veering off into personal attacks. So I'll make a general statement not aimed at anyone in particular but certainly pertinent to the statements made by several people here. Then I'll be leaving this particular thought for more fruitful discussions.

In my experience, people who minimize the effort needed to solve complex problems usually have motivations - that they're often trying to hide - that detract from a high-quality outcome.

So when someone says, for example, "automotive software is simple to design, implement and maintain," I question their motivation and doubt they have an improved product at the top of their priority list.

And if the “Service overdue…” message - or any similar shortcoming - has left your life in shambles, the logical next step is to sell your Ineos and purchase one of the many entirely problem-free vehicles that other manufacturers reliably produce at amazingly affordable prices.

Over and out.

I'll second that. Software can be easier to get 'right' if you own the entire hardware / software stack that you're building on top of. I don't know what the separate components are in the Grenadier's embedded engine and other systems are, I suspect that they are almost all proprietary systems that INEOS has to build on top of. Things like ADAS changes *should* be easier to make and deploy, but I really don't know what's involved in making and testing changes to the platforms they are building on top of. So, I always take the stance that I assume any development group is doing the best they can with what they have to work with until I know for certain who they are and what they're working with. Armchair development criticism is easy, but pointless.

I have seen tons of crappy software at NASA, not in space or flight vehicles, we pay a lot for that, but in enterprise 3rd party systems that we can't get what we need out of them, we have to write software on top of them and a lot of that is workarounds in the stuff underneath that we don't have rights to and can't modify. And that introduces new bugs that require more workarounds, and still we are locked in to what's underneath and cannot alter.

 

[Karearea]

Critical thing in all of this is that no vehicles have been affected to the extent that they can't perform the function they are designed for which is getting from point A to point B in a fun to drive and cool looking comfortable 4WD vehicle that is very different from anything else out there. I don't see any broken promises here from Ineos. Unlike other brands that have engine blowups, software glitches that make them un-driveable, or worse still drive themselves into oncoming traffic or into brick walls. What exactly is the fuss all about? As competent drivers what - we can't press a button and ignore a false reading? Are we that incompetent as a driver community that renders us incapable of minor adaptation to this trivial software glitch. Where is all the anger and vitriol coming from exactly? Enjoy the ride, enjoy the fun, and don't sweat the small stuff.

Couldn’t agree more
I jumped in Shitake yesterday after a month and absolutely thoroughly enjoyed my 5 hour drive and can’t wait for another 6 hours tomorrow!
After checking the CV boots of course

 

[landmannnn]

It is okay to insist on high standards from a automotive company as well. Long standing solutions have been in place for automotive design and software. With Ineos taking the bare minimal approach and not over complex the tech, one would assume that software wise it would have been industry standards in place not one of solutioning. However none of us truly know if Ineos just 3rd party the hell out of the software or are they in house? So controls might not be in place for these issues, like for instance requesting a 3rd party to respond, Ineos being at the mercy of their timeline even though they are the customer that company can only do what they can do. If it is in house it might actually explain much more, them trying to get creative and avoid using what already works might be the choice they took. How ever not one person here knows truly how that inner workings are done. Just my two cents well 1.5 cents.

Ineos have used Neusoft as their technology partner. Specifically the European division based in Germany.

So it is highly likely that your are correct in the assumption that they need to work with this 3rd party to fix software issues. Without disrespecting any German folk on here, the phrase "I will get right on it now" is seldom heard.

 

[Tazzieman]

Post #744
This is the Big Beautiful Thread that will make the Grenadier Great again!
THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER!

 

[Emil]

Shit. If this counts as therapy we need to up the rates!

Moved by emotion and longing for belongig, I could not but give a little love in return and upgrade my membership in gratitude.

 

[linksK9rig]

Post #744
This is the Big Beautiful Thread that will make the Grenadier Great again!
THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER!

I think you meant #734 or were you referring to the overdue days for yours

 

[Tazzieman]

I think you meant #734 or were you referring to the overdue days for yours

Just fishing for correction replies...an additional way to hit the magical millenium of posts

 

[Rupert]

Just fishing for correction replies...an additional way to hit the magical millenium of posts

I get that, YES, it certainly is a great way to hit the Magic!

 

[Tazzieman]

I get that, YES, it certainly is a great way to hit the Magic!

It is rapidly approaching a "Tally-Ho!" situation

 

[Znarfgh]

TALLY (updated and complied by the unpaid expendable gofer*)
Krabby 1492 days
ResponsiblyReckless 1625 days
Chook 1840 days
anti 1841 days
Itsdchz 1841 days, first US car with the pox
Dlucky 1851 days
BrandonADV 1852 days
TahoeGren 1852 days
Rocky 1856 days
Bjoern 1864 days
Znarfgh 1864 days
PB60 1865 days
Pat-Ard 1868 days
Rok Dr 1869 days
Tx246 1872 days
WanderingSniper 1872 days
Malkay 1875 days
Sonoranrover 1875 days
linksk9rig 1877 day
BluDawg 1879 days
Shopkeep 1879 days
rabia 1879 days
XxShantilisxX 1880 days
mji111 1880 days
PNW IG 1881 days
csjeeper 1884 days
donnygreygrenadier 1885
Michael H 1889 days
Guy 1890 days
Robt 1890 days
Chem409 1890 days
Blackwolf 1891 days
Duncan McDonald 1892 days
Deon 1893 days
joejet 1894 days
grnamin 1897 days
TimeosYoc 1899 days
Korg 1899 days
LPT FSJ 1900 days
GrenADV 1901 days
Green Gren 1903 days
stefan.schaefer.de 1906 days
Grumpy 1906 days
crashnburn 1908 days
HeavyFoot 1915 days
pedrogb 1915 days
Tom Ireland 1916 days
FlyersFan76 1917 days
Jax F1 Dave 1917 days
Old Salt 1919 days
Woody 1919 days
UncleBuck 1924 days
Force Pro 1924 days
Voader O 1925 days
OGrid 1927 days
singlefin 1927 days
Green 1928 days
DrahthaarGuide 1929 days
WhiteBear 1931 days, first car outside ANZ
ecohen2 1932 days
oilpresuure 1933 days
Forefun 1933 days
Happyoldgit 1933 days
DaveB 1935 days
OkGo 1937 days
prezioson 1940 days
NixGrenadier 1940 days
Rupert 1941 days
Gerrymac 1944 days
Peterr's neighour 1944 days
ddv 1945 days (Aug 2023)
Tergosa 1946 days
Rudilf 1948 days
Johnb 1950 days
Fred 1950 days
pmatusov 1953 days
Antgil 1953 days
TheBMcCann 1953 days
Camilondo 1953 days
nr002 1954 days
Knoe 1955 days
rickydoc 1961 days
Peterr 1961 days
IG Pop 1967 days
Jeremy966 1967 days
Ex-defender driver 1968 days
TheDocAUS 1968 days (Feb 2024)
shekesc 1969 days
SilverNZ 1971 days
Joe B 1971 days
Denis M 1975 days
Augustin 1979 days
Telliottaus 1980 days
rwhitinger's better half 1981 days
Zimm 1982 days
OZZA 1987 days
joejet 1989 days
Mohs9 1989 days
MattG 1989 days
Jonnieblaze 1950 days
TJD 1985 days
Phred 1994 days
douggie 1995 days
Isle of Wight Paul 1996 days
Phud 1996 days
Bluesmurf 2003 days
Des Mattes 2003 days
Glen 2007 days
Badger4x4 2007 days
Adam 2007 days
snowball 2009 days
Baron van T 2009 days
Tomdoc 2016 days
gratefuldiver 2021 days
Silverjay 2022 days
Sully 2023 days
BEM-S4 2024 days
theox 2024 days
Chris Hilton 2024 days
Tony H 2025 days
SaudiGR 2026 days
Sylvan 2032 days
Landmannn 2044 days
Oscar786 2045 days
acky 2048 days
n545ca 2050 days
Logsplitter 2051 days
Commodore 2057 days
NeoGTi 2057 days
HelgeL 2059 days
Greasemonkey 2059 days
SD Jeff 2063 days
Keato 2069 days
Lollo050968 2074 days
bemax 2078 days
255/85 2080 days
HessenHUnter 2081 days
Citori21 2081 days
bakepl 2082 days
MurphyMurph 2085 days
McPharmerII 2088 days
Barney 2091 days
LeeroyJ 2093
Wile E Coyote 2095 days
DrewB 2096 days
Dschubba 2097 days
Stu Barnes 2097 days
Manuel4x4 2106 days
Mazeman 2107 days
Jork 2113 days
Zenadier 2114 days
KlasN 2123 days
Wueste 2123 days
Brock63 2124 days
Tazzieman 2137 days
skinny tom 2139 days
Tenac loaner 2139 days
Phobiac 2141 days
archerwolf 2146 days
pipo 2149 days
Skymark 2156 days
ADVAW8S 2159 days
Ever Pragmatic 2141 days
Grenni-Tom 2153 days
Bayford 2162 days
StKesseler 2171
slukell 2175 days
Island Falconer 2178 days
wolftimj 2183 days
Emil 2190 days
emax 2233 days
bigleonski 2250 days
Ron50 2253 days
Torc Steel 2277 days
Bobineos 2188 days
Mulekick406 2297 days
Clark Kent 2367 days
tnkatoy 2362 days
C-Mack 2458 days
Jorda 2503 days
DeepCJ7 2651 days
mirwantandyo 2668 days
rwhitinger 6410 days

SUMMARY
183 members and an additional 3 members with no alert (4 if you include some chap in Townsville).

No change to first or last place. A photo is needed if you are claiming a new low or new high.

DO NOTHING FOR THE MOMENT

Post in thread 'New Year Service Overdue Bug'

Monday at 1:35 PM

I spoke with my Australian service manager today (my last few days here in AU). He said Ineos had advised them not to reset the service warning just yet as they don’t yet know what caused the fault so don’t know how long the reset would last or what else it might screw up if the service people simply just reset it. Although the mechanics already had reset some local customers they won’t do any more until they get the green light or a fix from Ineos.

• RY-Journeyman

• 
• 
• 

* Wednesday's unpaid expendable gofer.

View: https://youtu.be/F9CdkjLrEt8

Good work, you do it for the love of the brand and constant desire to help the group.