Long term parking and battery discharge

[Logsplitter]

The second battery will not drain down fully if you don’t have any auxiliary loads connected. The smartpass is configured to stop pulse charging the primary battery when it gets down to 50% charge, so always leaving enough power to start the engine. Carrying a jump starter such as a Nocooboost is always a good insurance policy anyway especially with an automatic vehicle that cannot be push/tow started. I have a Nocoboost GB 70 that I keep in the Grenadier. I’ve never to had to use it for the Grenadier but have used it to jump start a Hilux in Etosha plus jump starting boat outboard engines many times. I camp remotely for days on end and have never had a battery problem. I keep them topped up with 2 x 100watt suitcase style solar panels.

 

[Zimm]

Here's the thing about the stock battery setup. Drawing all loads from a primary battery is actually GOOD. Most of us use a House battery theory for the aux loads, that is replicated from larger RV's, where the starting battery is obviously not going to run the "house" it's engine is lugging around.

This isn't a house. This is transport. In its design concept, it was to be ultra reliable transport, not a house. Towards that goal, the battery setup is a REDUNDANT battery. For a battery to be redundant, it cannot have any potential parasitic loads of its own to draw it down.

Single battery ='s ( n )
Single and house ='s (n+1)
Redundant ='s 2 ( n )

Statistically speaking, 2( n ) in the US and Europe is overkill in all but the strangest of situations. Unless you're an Idiot, you're not getting stuck somewhere from dead batteries that you're gonna die. Just add a fuse block to the second battery and have fun. In parts of other places though, I'd add a DCDC charger to a battery pack and keep the second battery as it is.

As a side note, I just found out an 'n' in ( ) without spacers makes the thumbs down symbol.

 

[OkGo]

all great, till they build a car that drains the battery on its own. no need for external parasitic loads, it comes with that on its own

 

[Logsplitter]

all great, till they build a car that drains the battery on its own. no need for external parasitic loads, it comes with that on its own

What does your dealer say about your parasitic load on the battery? If it is draining for no apparent reason then it’s a warranty issue.

 

[granadilla]

What does your dealer say about your parasitic load on the battery? If it is draining for no apparent reason then it’s a warranty issue.

Going in next week, will see what they say. The fact that it can drain to less than 50% sitting idle for 2 days with no additional draw suggests that the parasite is internal to the vehicle.

 

[Logsplitter]

Going in next week, will see what they say. The fact that it can drain to less than 50% sitting idle for 2 days with no additional draw suggests that the parasite is internal to the vehicle.

Or a knackered battery maybe ?

 

[Zimm]

all great, till they build a car that drains the battery on its own. no need for external parasitic loads, it comes with that on its own

Can't buy one today that doesn't, so having a full size jump start available, that can actually be pulled and replace the primary if you're in the middle of Namibia and the primary completely fries, is muy bueno. It's a great idea for reliability that we as a whole error'ed in roasting Ineos for. Now it's gone.

 

[granadilla]

Here's the thing about the stock battery setup. Drawing all loads from a primary battery is actually GOOD. Most of us use a House battery theory for the aux loads, that is replicated from larger RV's, where the starting battery is obviously not going to run the "house" it's engine is lugging around.

This isn't a house. This is transport. In its design concept, it was to be ultra reliable transport, not a house. Towards that goal, the battery setup is a REDUNDANT battery. For a battery to be redundant, it cannot have any potential parasitic loads of its own to draw it down.

Single battery ='s ( n )
Single and house ='s (n+1)
Redundant ='s 2 ( n )

Statistically speaking, 2( n ) in the US and Europe is overkill in all but the strangest of situations. Unless you're an Idiot, you're not getting stuck somewhere from dead batteries that you're gonna die. Just add a fuse block to the second battery and have fun. In parts of other places though, I'd add a DCDC charger to a battery pack and keep the second battery as it is.

As a side note, I just found out an 'n' in ( ) without spacers makes the thumbs down symbol.

I am no electrician but I have always viewed starter batteries and deep cycle batteries as different animals. A starter is required to deliver a large draw quickly and then quickly recharge. A deep cycle is designed to provide a low current draw over a long period, be able to discharge to a lower lever repeatedly and then slowly recharge. If my simple understanding is correct why does the system come with two identical batteries? Either they have equipped it with two starters or two deep cycles. What am I missing?
Seems crazy to me to pay for a so called dual battery system, but then not really be able to run accessory equipment off the aux for fear of depleting both batteries, while also having to carry a booster pack. Where I am going you can run into serious trouble if the vehicle is left stranded.

 

[granadilla]

Or a knackered battery maybe ?

Should the aux not have kept it charged then? Unless both batteries are dud in a three month old vehicle?
My suspicion is that the Aux battery is not charging the primary. Am going to ask dealer to run the primary down and then test the Aux. If it's charged and holds a charge, then I would presume my expensive power bank has a "faulty cable" to the primary and that the CTEK system is not working as it is designed to. I may be totally wrong but struggling to find another explanation as to how it could discharge to such a low level with the vehicle off and nothing plugged in.

 

[Logsplitter]

My understanding is the that the two enhanced flooded batteries run in parallel. This type of battery is good for stop start technology and for general purpose auxiliary loads. The second battery will always have enough charge to start the engine. Just think of it as one big battery but because it’s split into two banks with the smartpass 120s in between it cuts off pulse charging the main battery at 50% capacity. When you try to start the vehicle it will link the batteries to use the charge left in the second battery to start the vehicle. I always carry a jump starter with me incase I do something stupid in the middle of know here and drain the batteries, also good for helping others out and charging phones etc when in the tent
Edit just seen your new post. Maybe smartpass or cables are faulty but doesn’t explain why the battery is draining in the first place
Hopefully your dealer can sort this out for you.

 

[OkGo]

What does your dealer say about your parasitic load on the battery? If it is draining for no apparent reason then it’s a warranty issue.

soo, I have many issues with my G - battery drain, by some luck, isnt one of them. With a fair wind and some luck, I am hoping it stays that way. Having said that - the dealer does tell me all the time is to 'double lock' the car, so it gets to 'deep sleep' always.

( the nico in the back is for just-in-case )

edit: maybe that post wasent for me.....

 

[Tom109]

soo, I have many issues with my G - battery drain, by some luck, isnt one of them. With a fair wind and some luck, I am hoping it stays that way. Having said that - the dealer does tell me all the time is to 'double lock' the car, so it gets to 'deep sleep' always.

( the nico in the back is for just-in-case )

edit: maybe that post wasent for me.....

I thought double-lock was shown as an untruth?

 

[Zimm]

I am no electrician but I have always viewed starter batteries and deep cycle batteries as different animals. A starter is required to deliver a large draw quickly and then quickly recharge. A deep cycle is designed to provide a low current draw over a long period, be able to discharge to a lower lever repeatedly and then slowly recharge. If my simple understanding is correct why does the system come with two identical batteries? Either they have equipped it with two starters or two deep cycles. What am I missing?
Seems crazy to me to pay for a so called dual battery system, but then not really be able to run accessory equipment off the aux for fear of depleting both batteries, while also having to carry a booster pack. Where I am going you can run into serious trouble if the vehicle is left stranded.

Ineos is utilizing the same batteries for stop/start. A deep cycle in this size will easily supply the max current needed to start a 3.0l engine, but the constant hammering from stat/stop is what makes the difference here. If I'm understanding the ctek functionality correctly, it has a built in V cutoff and trickle charge of the primary, so, you're not actually losing any available capacity for aux devices hooked to the primary if its working correctly.

You have an issue If your battery is dying. It reads like maybe the primary battery has a dead cell and the ctek is attempting to top it off, and killing the secondary, or the ctek cant provide the juice if the primary is in the way, or... something else... If you're not handy to a dealer, I'd do some experiments, like swapping batteries and eliminating the ctek and the secondary, etc. to see if I could isolate the culprit, if its in the batteries/ctek. It may be somewhere else. You're gonna have to fiddle with it, unfortunately.

 

[granadilla]

My understanding is the that the two enhanced flooded batteries run in parallel. This type of battery is good for stop start technology and for general purpose auxiliary loads. The second battery will always have enough charge to start the engine. Just think of it as one big battery but because it’s split into two banks with the smartpass 120s in between it cuts off pulse charging the main battery at 50% capacity. When you try to start the vehicle it will link the batteries to use the charge left in the second battery to start the vehicle. I always carry a jump starter with me incase I do something stupid in the middle of know here and drain the batteries, also good for helping others out and charging phones etc when in the tent
Edit just seen your new post. Maybe smartpass or cables are faulty but doesn’t explain why the battery is draining in the first place
Hopefully your dealer can sort this out for you.

Thanks Log splitter, Makes sense. not really familiar with Enhanced flooded batteries. Had always understood that Starter batteries were designed in a certain way and deep cycles in another as both serve different functions. Certainly the outfitters I have dealt with in SA all use Deep Cycles for auxiliary loads. Will read up on the flooded batteries to minimise my ignorance! Reassuring to know the second battery will never leave the primary "high and dry". Is this also the case if you run lights or a fridge off the system? Will the system "shut off" power to the auxiliary loads when it reaches 50%? If so this will give me a bit of peace of mind

 

[Zimm]

Thanks Log splitter, Makes sense. not really familiar with Enhanced flooded batteries. Had always understood that Starter batteries were designed in a certain way and deep cycles in another as both serve different functions. Certainly the outfitters I have dealt with in SA all use Deep Cycles for auxiliary loads. Will read up on the flooded batteries to minimise my ignorance! Reassuring to know the second battery will never leave the primary "high and dry". Is this also the case if you run lights or a fridge off the system? Will the system "shut off" power to the auxiliary loads when it reaches 50%? If so this will give me a bit of peace of mind

If you put a secondary fuse block off of the second battery, there is no system protection. But, as I understood the Ctek operation, It should not let you kill the second battery. If I'm wrong on that, I'd love to know now!!! The fact someone was left high and dry leads me to believe I could be. I thought this was supposed to be a bit more advanced than and old school separator which just breaks contact when the ignition is off.

 

[granadilla]

Ineos is utilizing the same batteries for stop/start. A deep cycle in this size will easily supply the max current needed to start a 3.0l engine, but the constant hammering from stat/stop is what makes the difference here. If I'm understanding the ctek functionality correctly, it has a built in V cutoff and trickle charge of the primary, so, you're not actually losing any available capacity for aux devices hooked to the primary if its working correctly.

You have an issue If your battery is dying. It reads like maybe the primary battery has a dead cell and the ctek is attempting to top it off, and killing the secondary, or the ctek cant provide the juice if the primary is in the way, or... something else... If you're not handy to a dealer, I'd do some experiments, like swapping batteries and eliminating the ctek and the secondary, etc. to see if I could isolate the culprit, if its in the batteries/ctek. It may be somewhere else. You're gonna have to fiddle with it, unfortunately.

Thanks Zimm. When I did manage to put on Voltmeter on the Aux it was at 100%, while the primary was in the 80s. Not sure what level the trickle charge "kicks in", but if it is designed to function as a "single battery" significant differences in charge seem unlikely ? If the Aux only kicks in at very low charge levels on the primary, then I would think the primary would be working "too hard", and the aux "not enough". Again my limited understanding of electrics tells me this will shorten battery life of both batteries? Which had me wondering if the Ctek system is working as it should. Call me old fashioned but give me a primary starter battery to do "car things", an isolated aux deep cycle to run all the rest and carry a booster pack if the primary fails.

 

[granadilla]

If you put a secondary fuse block off of the second battery, there is no system protection. But, as I understood the Ctek operation, It should not let you kill the second battery. If I'm wrong on that, I'd love to know now!!! The fact someone was left high and dry leads me to believe I could be. I thought this was supposed to be a bit more advanced than and old school separator which just breaks contact when the ignition is off.

I spoke to someone who has worked on grenadiers for quite a while and he said he did not believe the system would "shut off" at 50%, and that if you left a fridge plugged in for an extended period you would likely return to Two dead batteries. Once I have had the dealers look at it, if they can't give me more clarity I may test it... plug in some lights, run a fridge and see what happens. Will make sure the power pack is charged! And report back ....

 

[Zimm]

Thanks Zimm. When I did manage to put on Voltmeter on the Aux it was at 100%, while the primary was in the 80s. Not sure what level the trickle charge "kicks in", but if it is designed to function as a "single battery" significant differences in charge seem unlikely ? If the Aux only kicks in at very low charge levels on the primary, then I would think the primary would be working "too hard", and the aux "not enough". Again my limited understanding of electrics tells me this will shorten battery life of both batteries? Which had me wondering if the Ctek system is working as it should. Call me old fashioned but give me a primary starter battery to do "car things", an isolated aux deep cycle to run all the rest and carry a booster pack if the primary fails.

I don't know what the limit cutoffs are. Maybe there is some literature on the ctek website. My primary is typically at 80% max. That seems to be where the Smart Alternator is set to keep it. I'd prefer 90, but, there's no way to force that issue outside of a trickle charger or solar input which I'll end up doing. Long term I'm planning on a manual bypass with 2/0 cable to temp connect both batteries for winching when I'm playing in the dirt, to make up for any stress on the primary. That's been my setup on the past couple trucks, and it's worked well for me.

 

[Zimm]

I spoke to someone who has worked on grenadiers for quite a while and he said he did not believe the system would "shut off" at 50%, and that if you left a fridge plugged in for an extended period you would likely return to Two dead batteries. Once I have had the dealers look at it, if they can't give me more clarity I may test it... plug in some lights, run a fridge and see what happens. Will make sure the power pack is charged! And report back ....

Ahh... Boooo.

 

[Logsplitter]

I hope they are not right. I’ve been led to believe there will always be enough charge left to start the vehicle but haven't tested that theory. I always use solar power when camped up for a few days. When the early Grenadiers like mine were delivered we could use the auxiliary load terminal on the smart pass to connect some auxiliary loads in the knowledge that the smartpass would cut off those loads when battery capacity got down to 50% but that terminal got blanked off on all Grenadiers as a routine when they were serviced at a dealers. Keen to learn what your dealer finds.