Long term parking and battery discharge

[Tazzieman]

Speaking of age - batteries used to last for a decade. Now, three years is a decent clip. I had to decommission a beautiful Odissey after only 5 years - it will not charge beyond 12.2 V.

That's because they weren't working as hard, and certainly not 24/7 (except for the clock if you had one).
Using a smart charger that conditions the battery greatly extends battery life..
The other thing is to buy a quality battery. Many different labels , but they often are the same low price battery under the skin.

 

[carpetman]

Here you go. Pic from the trend tab.
And it's entirely possible I did the math wrong, I did it a bit quickly in the morning. I'll rerun the math again.
You can see the parked period very well in the graph. Seems to show that the car enters deep sleep fairly quickly.

View attachment 7894607

Hi Parb, I have used the following settings. I have set the current threshold to 0.00A. I can now see ~0.02A as the current after the vehicle has been shutdown. Can you share your voltage trend over the 3 weeks?
The 13.2V Charged voltage is from the Victron smartshunt manual for lead-acid.

Regards,
Carpetman

 

[carpetman]

View attachment 7894615
Hi Parb, I have used the following settings. I have set the current threshold to 0.00A. I can now see ~0.02A as the current after the vehicle has been shutdown. Can you share your voltage trend over the 3 weeks?
The 13.2V Charged voltage is from the Victron smartshunt manual for lead-acid.

Regards,
Carpetman

Actually, the 0.02A I see is a positive current (i.e. charging) so likely a measurement offset.

 

[Tazzieman]

@carpetman The Grenadier battery is AGM type. Does it matter the Peukert exponent is higher than the normal range for AGMs?
These new battery types do my head in.

 

[carpetman]

@carpetman The Grenadier battery is AGM type. Does it matter the Peukert exponent is higher than the normal range for AGMs?
These new battery types do my head in.

I believe the battery is an Enhanced Flooded Battery (EFB) and not a AGM.

 

[TheDocAUS]

I believe the battery is an Enhanced Flooded Battery (EFB) and not a AGM.

Correct it is EFB.

 

[Tazzieman]

I believe the battery is an Enhanced Flooded Battery (EFB) and not a AGM.

I haven't checked mine but early on people were saying it was a Moll 81105. Is that correct?

 

[parb]

I set my peukert coefficient to 1.25.

 

[parb]

Here is my trend over the parked 3 weeks with voltage and current as requested.

And these are my settings.

 

[carpetman]

Latest settings for smartshunt for starter battery.
1. The charged voltage, is the voltage of the charger (i.e. the car) is at when the battery is full. This should be ~14.2V
2. The tail current should be set to ~1.3% (equivalent to 1.365A).
3. The duration of 3mins is fine - Basically the voltage needs to be at least 14.2V with a current of less than 1.365A for at least 3 mins for the smartshunt to determine that its 100% charged.

I have not figured out the correct value for the Peukert exponent or charge efficiency factor yet.

I fully charged my starter battery using solar yesterday - The last 20% of charging the battery takes ~7-8hrs. The SoC on the dashboard was still showing 75% charged. However, if you see the voltage at ~14.2V and the current at 1A the battery is fully charged.

I disconnect the load side of the smartshunt (as well as the BMS negative terminal) and calibrated the zero current state (victron app). When I reconnected the battery, the dashboard SoC read 97%. The load current now shows a draw of ~20mA after 15mins from power down. This seems to be the static current that my car is drawing, however, there is probably still some error in measurement here.

I drove for 45mins to work and at the end both the dashboard and SoC are now at 100%. I made two trips during the day before driving home and the battery was drained to 98% (start-stop was on). It took a drive home of over an hour to bring the SoC back to 100%. So if you end up in the 70-80% charged doldrums, you need to be driving for 7-8 hours to get the battery fully charged.

Here are a couple of observations.
1. Shutdown consumes about ~0.5Ah
2. Opening a door consumes about the same
3. it takes 15 minutes to go to a low current state - 20mA in my case.
4. Having the overhead power switch on consumes ~0.33Ah (my guess this is the power for the USB charger etc). I keep this on when camping!

So basically when camping if you are opening an closing the doors 20 times a day and keep the PWR switch on, you should expect the the battery to get drained in 2-3 days (which has happened to me).

I will let you know how well the two SoC reading stay in Sync.

Regards,
Carpetman

 

[parb]

Nicely written up!

 

[tnkatoy]

I believe the car draining 1.5A - I have had completely dead batteries after the car sat for about 20 days, it seems to drain about 2.5A per day. (early build - August 2023 delivery - dual battery)

I fully charged both batteries and the car maintained the charge over 90% with daily use. But when it sat for a week and the charge fell below 90%, it can't seem to get the charge over 85%, even after driving for several hours, the charge just hangs at 82-85%. I suspect if it falls below 80%, it may hang at around 75%, like others experience.

With a low charge and high drain, it doesn't take long to kill the batteries. If leaving the car for more than a week, I now disconnect the second battery, fully charge it and take jumper leads, and when camping, we take a third battery !!!

For some reason, Ineos hasn't, can't or won't come up with a fix, solution or work around - maybe they have, we just don't know, and neither does my dealer.

 

[granadilla]

I have a 2024 Build Trialmaster with Dual Battery system. Vehicle was parked for less than three days, after a long drive, and when I started it up the battery indicated was at 49% and said critically low or something to that effect. I had nothing running off the vehicle during this period, no lights fridges or anything else. I had understood when buying the vehicle that the Dual battery system functioned as most overloading dual systems worked. ie that all non vehicle related loads such as external lights, fridges etc would run off the aux, thus preserving the primary battery. This has been the case in all overloading set ups I have used. After the vehicle arrived and I looked at the system it became evident this is not the case. If I understand correctly EVERYTHING runs off the primary battery and the Aux is there simply as a "power bank" for the primary. My concern is twofold.

Firstly is everything runs off the primary, and one runs lights fridges etc from the vehicle is parked, will it drain both the back and and primary battery and then leave you with a dead primary when you want to start it? Or does it have a BMS that would prevent the primary battery running below a certain threshold?

Secondly if the primary has discharged to 50% after three days sitting idle with no Draw on it, is the back up Aux battery actually charging the primary battery? I cannot believe that the primary battery would be so depleted sitting idle for three days, if it was being properly trickle fed by a 105aH back up battery.

If I understand correctly... the Aux does not power anything directly. All runs off the primary. Rewiring in any way will affect warranty, and the system on my vehicle ran to critically low levels while sitting for three days doing nothing.
I am inclined to believe I have a warranty claim or is this a design fault? Anyone able to shed some insight?
I have been told the dual battery system has been scrapped, which would suggest the design has not been fit for purpose. The struggle now is how do you power the external power points without rewiring and losing warranty, or risking a dead battery in the middle of nowhere?

 

[OkGo]

Insert joke about needing a third battery ( lifepo4 most likely ), and a d250se

 

[OkGo]

Then insert another joke about Ineos getting the joke and removing the 2nd battery option entirely.

 

[Tazzieman]

I

Insert joke about needing a third battery ( lifepo4 most likely ), and a d250se

If you have the aux battery option, rather than rewire ($, potential warranty issues) , buy a portable lithium battery box with built in controller.
If you have no space left after gear and passengers , well that sucks.

 

[granadilla]

No space for another battery, either in the hood or under the seat, I had some experts look. And the problem remains.... all the Aux power points runs off the primary battery, so you could still drain both the Lithium and primary battery and end up stranded. Only solution is to rewire at the fuse box all the external power points and the rear 12v socket to the Auxillary battery and isolate the primary. The dealer here feels that will affect warranty, and I am sure it will. Also if the main discharges to 50% while sitting idle for three days and supposedly being trickle fed by an "power bank" in the form of a 105aH back up, what will it do without its crutch? Battery box seems the only solution. And you still can't power the pre wired external plug points. Incredibly frustrating for a vehicle that has been marketed as "good to go off the shelf". Some great ideas but execution seems to be letting the vehicle down in my opinion and fixes are almost impossible without influencing warranty. Seems great for daily trips to areas requiring a proper 4x4. But as an overloading vehicle, certainly in Africa I have some reservations after a few months of ownership. Hoping I am proven Wrong, cos I love the car and concept.
My hope is Grenadier realise the shortcoming of the dual battery system, and approve dealers to fix the problem without affecting the warranty. If not my gut tells me the target market in Africa will continue to put their faith in the tried and tested Japanese brands

 

[granadilla]

Then insert another joke about Ineos getting the joke and removing the 2nd battery option entirely.

I have been told by a dealer the second battery option has been scrapped...?

 

[OkGo]

I have been told by a dealer the second battery option has been scrapped...?

That's right. Sorry for not being clear, it's exactly what I meant. Ineos has realised this 2nd battery is not helping or meeting market expectations. So, removed it.

By way of space, the small storage area next to the back left door, the compartment you go through to get to the jack, is actually a good enough size to pack in some LiFePo4. If you are handy, buy some eve cells and your own BMS board, and it should all go in. It will increase level of effort needed to get to the jack however.

 

[granadilla]

Thank you, will give that a try. I have a front runner storage rack in the back which makes access tricky at the best of times, but will see if I can find a way. Think I am just going to go with a battery box, and accept that the external power points are just very expensive decorations ... pity. Great concept but doesn't work in practice. Similarly the Nato power point at the back. Decorative in SA. An Anderson plug would have been such a simple thing to install at factory for Africa Market one would think. Some things make me think the car is a new defender in disguise, not the old.... but I do love it