Lithium Aux Battery Upgrade, chasing advice Victron vs Redarc

[Rok_Dr]

A common observation is that the D250SE is only a 20A charger. That's fine to pair with the Smartpass 120S to keep the factory EFBs topped up from a solar input if you're on a camp site running a fridge and some LED lights for a few days, but not enough to bulk charge a lithium battery from any source if you're running bigger loads like an induction cooker or a coffee machine or other essentials of modern camping (apparently ).
If your needs are modest then the 250SE is adequate. That's what I'm using.

Also if you are using the DS250Se as a solar regulator it has a low VOC limit of 23v which precludes using many solar panels.

 

[Clark Kent]

Also if you are using the DS250Se as a solar regulator it has a low VOC limit of 23v which precludes using many solar panels.

Excellent point Steve. I always forget about the D250SE VOC limit because I use a 200W MK1 Hardkorr folding panel with a D250SE to charge the Crystal AGMs in my camper when I'm away.

The MK1 panel is 21.24 VOC. The newer MK2 panel is 23.6 VOC which takes it out of safe D250SE range.

 

[TheDocAUS]

Any reason why people goto victron or redarc when the car has ctek? Am I missing something like i can get the 250se and have solar import and run the lithium 2nd battery seems like an awful lot of money for Bluetooth monitoring.

Some owners do it because they want the primary and secondary batteries isolated from each other. A more common setup in Australia.

I went with the CTEK250SE as the easier option. I do not run induction cooktops out of the car. Plus the 250SE allowed me to put a solar panel on the roofrack - keeping both EFB batteries topped up.

If I need extra power I can plug in my Lithium battery box (BB), but I have not needed the BB so far.

My dashcam (front and rear) have their own lithium battery that I can recharge from the two main batteries, which I will do if there is plenty of sun around. That dashcam battery only charges when the ignition is on, unless I flick a switch when the car is off.

 

[Adam-Oz]

Any reason why people goto victron or redarc when the car has ctek? Am I missing something like i can get the 250se and have solar import and run the lithium 2nd battery seems like an awful lot of money for Bluetooth monitoring.

Having owned victron, redarc and CTek installations for 12v systems the reason that victron is the clear winner is the choice of specs, support and usability (especially the app). It just works flawlessly as an entire ecosystem. Redarc is great too and I would place it a close second and CTeK is overrated and too limited in any ability to customise or have an integrated system approach IMHO. If you want just a simple DC charger then the CTek is okay, beyond that the other choices offer far better levels of system customisation.

 

[Tjeska]

Is the combination of 250SE & 120s not capable of charging 120 amps from the alternator to second battery?

I would like to change the stock second battery to a Lifepo4 battery with time...

 

[TheDocAUS]

Is the combination of 250SE & 120s not capable of charging 120 amps from the alternator to second battery?

I would like to change the stock second battery to a Lifepo4 battery with time...

The 250SE and 120S has a combined charging capacity of 140 amps (20 amps with just solar which mainly charges the aux battery). The IG alternator should be able to provide that amount of power, provided there are not other extreme demands on the alternator (eg using a winch) at the same time.

I have seen my car provide around 140 amps while recharging with a 250SE and 120S fitted - via the Console.

 

[mcdoogs]

Victron's software is best in class. I do know that Redarc's components are better suited for harsher conditions, I watched a video that tested output at as temperature went up and the redarc dcdc output started to degrade at a higher temperature than the victron. Not really relevant for a typical Grenadier setup probably but if you are installing under the hood or doing most of your camping in hot dusty places then Redarc is a great choice.

I'm still on the fence, as the redarc bcdc being able to handle dc-dc and solar in one simplifies a build, and i'm not going to be living out of the grenadier exclusively for more than a couple days at a time. Solar is more of a 'neat, I have a cpl of panels on the roof' kind of thing.

What are people doing for switch panels? My thinking is to leave all the stock switches in the cockpit to running loads and have all the house battery accessories switched in the rear, since those will primarily be used with the engine off and I don't want to have to jump in the front seats to control them. I've read good things about the switchpros SP9100

 

[anand]

Any reason why people goto victron or redarc when the car has ctek? Am I missing something like i can get the 250se and have solar import and run the lithium 2nd battery seems like an awful lot of money for Bluetooth monitoring.

Victron and Redarc both allow precise monitoring and are intended for use with a wide variety of battery configurations (and can be programmed as such), the CTEK Smartpass 120S is effectively a "dumb" device that only passes voltage directly across (and "limits" current). The Smartpass 120S cannot correctly charge a Lithium aux battery and the vast majority of Lithium batteries people are using in these vehicles would be damaged by the start-assist functionality the CTEK offers in the event the primary battery has low voltage. The D250SE solar controller can charge a lithium battery correctly (or, as close to correctly as a generic profile allows), but that only handles the solar side of things, not the DC-DC charging.

 

[anand]

What are people doing for switch panels? My thinking is to leave all the stock switches in the cockpit to running loads and have all the house battery accessories switched in the rear, since those will primarily be used with the engine off and I don't want to have to jump in the front seats to control them. I've read good things about the switchpros SP9100

My primary switching is a SP9100, and then in the cargo area I have an additional Feniex 4200 Mini to control cargo-area/camp specific things; both of these are wired to my aux battery

 

[BBQBob]

Victron's software is best in class. I do know that Redarc's components are better suited for harsher conditions, I watched a video that tested output at as temperature went up and the redarc dcdc output started to degrade at a higher temperature than the victron. Not really relevant for a typical Grenadier setup probably but if you are installing under the hood or doing most of your camping in hot dusty places then Redarc is a great choice.

I'm still on the fence, as the redarc bcdc being able to handle dc-dc and solar in one simplifies a build, and i'm not going to be living out of the grenadier exclusively for more than a couple days at a time. Solar is more of a 'neat, I have a cpl of panels on the roof' kind of thing.

What are people doing for switch panels? My thinking is to leave all the stock switches in the cockpit to running loads and have all the house battery accessories switched in the rear, since those will primarily be used with the engine off and I don't want to have to jump in the front seats to control them. I've read good things about the switchpros SP9100

I went with Redarc's BCDC Alpha and the TVMS Rogue for in the vehicle switching. With two Redvision control panels. One for the back by the rear doors and one up in the drivers compartment. I got a Garmin Powerswitch for underhood control of exterior (mainly front) lighting. I really like the capability to use Carplay for the Garmin app and wish Redarc would come out with a CarPlay compatible app as well.

 

[BBQBob]

I should add, that if CarPlay isn't on the horizon anytime soon I wish someone with 3d Modeling skills would make a mount for the Redvision panel to mount in the blank spot overhead. John from Agile Offroad sells panels to hold a Victron CerboGX and/or a Switch-Pros controller. There's also one for an Icom head unit for a GMRS system.. He's a Victron dealer so that makes sense. Can't find anyone who makes a 3d printed mount for the Redvision though....

 

[TheDocAUS]

I should add, that if CarPlay isn't on the horizon anytime soon I wish someone with 3d Modeling skills would make a mount for the Redvision panel to mount in the blank spot overhead. John from Agile Offroad sells panels to hold a Victron CerboGX and/or a Switch-Pros controller. There's also one for an Icom head unit for a GMRS system.. He's a Victron dealer so that makes sense. Can't find anyone who makes a 3d printed mount for the Redvision though....

I have only seen a bracket for the Red Vision screen for a rear roof shelf (internal). I am not even sure it will fit a Grenadier rear shelf.

 

[TCMColorado]

I should add, that if CarPlay isn't on the horizon anytime soon I wish someone with 3d Modeling skills would make a mount for the Redvision panel to mount in the blank spot overhead. John from Agile Offroad sells panels to hold a Victron CerboGX and/or a Switch-Pros controller. There's also one for an Icom head unit for a GMRS system.. He's a Victron dealer so that makes sense. Can't find anyone who makes a 3d printed mount for the Redvision though....

I too would like a Redvision mount for the overhead panel. But absent a mount it can easily be surface mounted with a single hole needed behind the display for the wiring harness.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Need some directions and figure my Aussie/NZ/SA friends might be able to help. Here is my confirmation, I will be getting a flat tray and half box at end of this year and I am struggling with the best solution for aux battery.

Normally I have seen people running a aux battery in the canopy. I believe because of lack of battery space, ease of installation, and closer to a inverter. My issue is a battery eats into all already limited space.

The other option, is to run a dual battery in the cab and then have switches in canopy to control water pump, lights, fridge, etc. The issue here is I remove the canopy than I lose power to control certain components like our side lights that are not attached canopy, water pump. I could create a switch box that can plus in to the Anderson plug that connects the power to canopy.

I do not for see me taking off and on the canopy. But trying to flush out the best solution that provides the greatest flexibility. Also, what am I also not thinking about?

 

[NQ94]

Depending on the size of the system look at using narrow lithium batteries stacked against the front wall of the canopy. Look at mounting the hardware high with control panels and switches accessable. Switching and monitoring can be made compact especially if using a PDM Can bus systems whereas hardware mounted high above the batteries only needs access for servicing and uses the space that is more difficult to reach leaving more room low for daily use and for heavy items.

 

[Clark Kent]

Need some directions and figure my Aussie/NZ/SA friends might be able to help. Here is my confirmation, I will be getting a flat tray and half box at end of this year and I am struggling with the best solution for aux battery.

Normally I have seen people running a aux battery in the canopy. I believe because of lack of battery space, ease of installation, and closer to a inverter. My issue is a battery eats into all already limited space.

The other option, is to run a dual battery in the cab and then have switches in canopy to control water pump, lights, fridge, etc. The issue here is I remove the canopy than I lose power to control certain components like our side lights that are not attached canopy, water pump. I could create a switch box that can plus in to the Anderson plug that connects the power to canopy.

I do not for see me taking off and on the canopy. But trying to flush out the best solution that provides the greatest flexibility. Also, what am I also not thinking about?

Depending on how much battery you're looking at, for a simple system you could add an undertray toolbox and mount a battery in there. Or one each side if you need the capacity and want redundancy. It would be easy to distribute power in and out and you could send DC to the canopy via a 2-pole threaded plug and socket (more secure than an Anderson) on the canopy. If you keep everything on the vehicle side there is only one plug to deal with if you do ever need to remove the canopy.
The other benefit is the battery is wholly contained in a metal box underneath the metal tray should the battery ever have a runaway.

This is the toolbox that comes with the Norweld tray.

 

[TheDocAUS]

The other option, is to run a dual battery in the cab and then have switches in canopy to control water pump, lights, fridge, etc. The issue here is I remove the canopy than I lose power to control certain components like our side lights that are not attached canopy, water pump. I could create a switch box that can plus in to the Anderson plug that connects the power to canopy.

If you are using a REDARC TVMS (like the Prime or the Rogue) as part of the setup, it can be controlled from the Redvision screen in the car or another in the canopy. You can fit two screens, one in the car and one in the canopy. The screens are plug and play. Simple wiring job to get the second screen into the canopy with any power feeds (from a battery under rhe rear seats).

Or you fit one screen in the car and use the REDARC app to control the system, like lights and everything else from your phone using the REDARC app (Android and iOS).

My van has a Redvision screen in the van, if I am outside I just use the REDARC iPhone app which has nearly identical functionality. You can sit on your camp chair and adjust camp lights thru the app. My van has both a Prime and Rogue TVMS, as I got the Rogue to give me more circuits and flexibility later on. You would not need both in most cases.

Redvision also works with the new Black ALPHA DC to DC chargers (only one of the two 50amp Black APLHAs work with Redvision. So be careful what DC to DC you buy).

Redvision allows to have your cake and eat it. It costs more for the intial setup, but you get that back over time and the incredible ease of making upgrades or changes later.

View: https://youtu.be/G_SoRida0U0

View: https://youtu.be/eFLlXltOb_4

View: https://youtu.be/0OMWheE89Eg

 

[ADVAW8S]

If you are using a REDARC TVMS (like the Prime or the Rogue) as part of the setup, it can be controlled from the Redvision screen in the car or another in the canopy. You can fit two screens, one in the car and one in the canopy. The screens are plug and play. Simple wiring job to get the second screen into the canopy with any power feeds (from a battery under rhe rear seats).

Or you fit one screen in the car and use the REDARC app to control the system, like lights and everything else from your phone using the REDARC app (Android and iOS).

My van has a Redvision screen in the van, if I am outside I just use the REDARC iPhone app which has nearly identical functionality. You can sit on your camp chair and adjust camp lights thru the app. My van has both a Prime and Rogue TVMS, as I got the Rogue to give me more circuits and flexibility later on. You would not need both in most cases.

Redvision also works with the new Black ALPHA DC to DC chargers (only one of the two 50amp Black APLHAs work with Redvision. So be careful what DC to DC you buy).

Redvision allows to have your cake and eat it. It costs more for the intial setup, but you get that back over time and the incredible ease of making upgrades or changes later.

View: https://youtu.be/G_SoRida0U0

View: https://youtu.be/eFLlXltOb_4

View: https://youtu.be/0OMWheE89Eg

How do you feel about the Manger 30, it adds the ability to go AC to DC at 30 amps. I'm running 200 a/h lithium semi solid state batteries. The largest draw would be induction which will run off the inverter. With two kids, 7and 3, it's more weekend warrior versus week long trips. I'm thinking rouge with manger 30. The remaining battery usage would be lights in and and around the truck. I do like the ability to create process like when you turn on x, y will happen too.

 

[TheDocAUS]

How do you feel about the Manger 30, it adds the ability to go AC to DC at 30 amps. I'm running 200 a/h lithium semi solid state batteries. The largest draw would be induction which will run off the inverter. With two kids, 7and 3, it's more weekend warrior versus week long trips. I'm thinking rouge with manger 30. The remaining battery usage would be lights in and and around the truck. I do like the ability to create process like when you turn on x, y will happen too.

The Manager 30 is a well tested and proven solution, it is a bigger unit than most of the other Redarc chargers. You need to keep it and the battery away from excessive heat, so it would be fine under the rear seats. Just check you have enough room to install everything.

I have 600 Ah of Lithium in the van and so far no issues with the Manager 30. The van also has 645W of solar panels. As you know you can also plug it into AC, I assume US models work with 110 volts.

200 Ah of Lithium works best with a 2,000W inverter, it is borderline for a 3,000 inverter.

A Lithium battery with Manager 30 and TVMS Rogue would be a really nice setup under the seat. Just make sure the Redvision screen works with that combo, as mine also has the TVMS Prime (EDIT: see next post) and it all works. Then you can have one Redvsion screen in the car and control every accessory in the tub with the phone app, or install a second screen there.

 

[TheDocAUS]

REDARC website states (for the Rogue):

TVMS Rogue Control Module

A compact and flexible power control solution for caravan, camper and 4x4 applications.

www.redarcelectronics.com

When these systems are properly configured they are huge time savers. I touch a button on the screen twice to shut everything down, or in another configuration just leave the fridge circuit on. Sitting on a camping chair I can dim the camping lights on the van via the app.

If you go the Rogue make sure there are enough circuits at the amps you need. You can actually daisy chain Rogues as well. So I can add another without dramas on the van if I wish (but I do not need to too).

The Redvision system is very powerful and flexible, REDARC really thought it out. Only downside is it is not cheap.