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Land Rover feeling the Heat?

Germany:
For November the German KBA again lists 17 new Grenadier registrations for M1 cars. Ending up with 450 YTD.
The N1 numbers will be published in a few days.
193 New Defender, summing up to 3,428 YTD.

Other countries:
20 in the UK, 253 YTD (333 2024).
446 in the US (66 2024), summing up to 4,481 YTD (5,170 2024, -13,3%)

AWo
 
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The ND numbers for the US are not listed in my post. That is Germany. The IG sales is -13% compared to 2024 in the US.

AWo
 
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Ah, miss misunderstood the US numbers. Either way, pretty good for a brand new vehicle from a brand new company with a limited dealership network.
 
New Defender buyers, and Grenadier buyers, surely represent different market sectors? So comparison is a little pointless?

I bought many Land Rovers, from a 1962 SIIA in the early 1980's to a 2008 Puma. Yes, if they still made them, I would consider a Puma again - but not the new Defender. That is a totally different vehicle aimed at a different market sector.
 
Well. Being from Scotland, Denali and Tacoma are outside my knowledge. Big American trucks, got that.

But these videos did make me chuckle. Reminded me of all those suburban mums taking the kids to school in their Chelsea tractors. Nearest to off road they ever get is the occasional kerb! 😂
 
New Defender buyers, and Grenadier buyers, surely represent different market sectors? So comparison is a little pointless?
I’ll let you know - we just bought a 2023 90 for my wife. Stats look pretty nice; winch, full underbody protection, EAS, expedition rack, onboard air. It joins our Grenadier, IIa 109, and RRC LWB.
 
New Defender buyers, and Grenadier buyers, surely represent different market sectors? So comparison is a little pointless?

I bought many Land Rovers, from a 1962 SIIA in the early 1980's to a 2008 Puma. Yes, if they still made them, I would consider a Puma again - but not the new Defender. That is a totally different vehicle aimed at a different market sector.

It’s possible Grenadier and modern Defender buyers represent different market sectors. That said, my wife and I own both models at present and find them equally compelling vehicles. Each has their pros and cons and you can certainly argue one is built in the model of an old school 4x4 while the other embraces modernity and technology more. Each are supremely capable vehicles by any measurement and provide uniquely different ownership experiences. We use both vehicles equally/interchangeably and the task of the day usually helps determine which set of keys we reach for in the morning. No regrets either way as both vehicles have been extremely reliable thus far.

Could the Defender be a bit more rugged or optimized for heavier off-road use? Certainly! Could the Grenadier be a bit more refined for use as a daily driver? Of course it could! Both vehicles fit our current needs and in some respects view them as opposite sides of the same type of coin. As life goes on or our needs change perhaps one vehicle will shine better. For now, we are grateful both exist and enjoy them equally as I doubt we’ll be as lucky in the future to be in a position to own two such unique vehicles at the same time.
 
Well. Being from Scotland, Denali and Tacoma are outside my knowledge. Big American trucks, got that.

But these videos did make me chuckle. Reminded me of all those suburban mums taking the kids to school in their Chelsea tractors. Nearest to off road they ever get is the occasional kerb! 😂
Tacoma is the US "Hi-lux" - it's about the same size but not as heavy duty as the ROW Toyota pickups. The Denalis/GMCs come in varying trim and size, but yes, it is a full size, big American truck.
 
Well, going back to the title of this thread, I don't think Land Rover is feeling the heat in Belgium. Here are the latest statistics of Ineos Grenadier sales.
  • 2023: 97 registrations
  • 2024: 87
  • 2025: 35
In all those years together the proportion car/LCV's is 20%/80% (abbreviation is explained in the second graph ;) )

growth IG.png
monthly IG.png


Only 35 new registrations in 2025, that's really not much. Of course, our country has:
  • only 11 million inhabitants
  • almost no off road tracks
  • high taxes (that's why people buy the LCV, less taxes)
  • high fuel prices
I don't have the specific numbers for the Land Rover Defender, but in 2025 Land Rover sold:
  • 1191 LCV's
  • 4872 cars
  • that's a reverse proportion of 20% LCV's.
And I see quite some New Defenders on the road ... without any scratches 😎
 
I think it's the same story in the UK as well, the dealer average of sales is about one a month I was told.
 
As I understand it, if Ineos sold a lot of vehicles in UK they would be liable for hefty fines due to the high emissions of the vehicle. Keeping sales below a certain level currently enables them to avoid these fines, EU is similar. Their only option is to restrict sales. I'm not saying that this is the case with such a small amount of sales but I do recall reading something about this.
 
I think it's the same story in the UK as well, the dealer average of sales is about one a month I was told.
According to "how many left", just under 300 were registered in the first half of 2025.
There are about 10 dealers, so probably closer to 5 per month.

Nowhere near the sales of the school bus from JLR of course.
 
As I understand it, if Ineos sold a lot of vehicles in UK they would be liable for hefty fines due to the high emissions of the vehicle. Keeping sales below a certain level currently enables them to avoid these fines, EU is similar. Their only option is to restrict sales. I'm not saying that this is the case with such a small amount of sales but I do recall reading something about this.
I thought the BMW engine meets that standards over there, do they not? Or does the laws limit sale in general? (I have no clue, real questions)
 
As I understand it, if Ineos sold a lot of vehicles in UK they would be liable for hefty fines due to the high emissions of the vehicle. Keeping sales below a certain level currently enables them to avoid these fines, EU is similar. Their only option is to restrict sales. I'm not saying that this is the case with such a small amount of sales but I do recall reading something about this.
From memory ( with out checking previous threads) the total N1+ M1 was 10,000 weighted to N1s. But I was originally told by the dealer in the early days it was 6000 in total with 1700 allocated to M1s. I think the first figure of 10,000 is probably more realistic. And the second figure for part year of release.
 
I thought the BMW engine meets that standards over there, do they not? Or does the laws limit sale in general? (I have no clue, real questions)
Quick AI google response below. This is also why we can theoretically buy the new Toyota Landcruiser in the UK but Toyota restrict sales so that you cannot actually buy one!
This is also a similar issue in the EU. It's almost as though they want to shut down manufacturing and buy everything from China!
We also wonder why European branded cars cost so much 🤔

🇬🇧 UK Fines for Exceeding Average CO₂ Emissions​

(For car manufacturers, not drivers)
Even though the ZEV mandate now gets most of the attention, the UK still enforces CO₂ fleet‑average limits for new cars and vans. These rules were carried over from EU law after Brexit.

🔍 How the CO₂ fines work​

Manufacturers must keep the average CO₂ emissions of all new cars they sell below a set target. If their fleet average is higher than the target, they pay a fine.

💸 Penalty amount​

From the retained EU regulation:
  • €95 per gram of CO₂ per vehicle above the target.
This is the same structure the EU uses.

Example​

If a manufacturer’s fleet average is:
  • 5 g/km above the target
  • and they sold 100,000 cars
Then the fine is:
5×95×100,000=€47.5 million

📜 Legal basis​

The UK’s rules are set out in:
  • The Car, Van and Heavy Duty Vehicle CO₂ Emissions Performance Standards Regulations
  • These regulations were retained from EU law and updated in 2023.
The Office for Budget Responsibility confirms the fine structure:
“Each manufacturer faces a fine of €95 per new car registered for each gram deviation above the target.”

🔄 How this interacts with the ZEV mandate​

These are two separate systems:
SystemWhat it regulatesPenalty
CO₂ fleet‑average rulesAverage emissions of all new petrol/diesel/hybrid cars€95 per g/km per vehicle
ZEV mandate% of new cars that must be electric£15,000 per missing EV

🇬🇧 How UK Emissions Fines Work for Car Manufacturers​

🔌 1. The ZEV Mandate (Main Source of Fines)​

The UK introduced the Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) mandate in 2024.It requires every manufacturer selling cars in the UK to ensure a minimum percentage of their new car sales are fully electric (BEVs).

Targets:

  • 2024: 22% of new car sales must be electric
  • 2025: 28%
  • 2030: 80%
  • 2035: 100% (no new petrol/diesel sales)

💸 2. What Happens If a Manufacturer Misses the Target?​

If a brand fails to meet its required EV percentage, the government can fine them:

  • £15,000 per vehicle they fall short of the target (Some sources mention £12,000 for future years depending on policy changes, but £15k is the official figure for 2024–25.)
Example:If a manufacturer needed to sell 10,000 EVs but only sold 8,000, they are 2,000 short2,000 × £15,000 = £30 million fine.

🔄 3. Flexibilities (Why Most Brands Avoid Fines)​

Manufacturers can avoid fines using several mechanisms:

  • Buy credits from other manufacturers who exceeded their EV targets
  • Use banking/borrowing (carry over surplus or deficit between years)
  • Pool with other brands (e.g., smaller companies joining a group)
 
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