Harry’s Farm and Garage. Why does Harry Metcalfe hate the Grenadier?

[longwhiteline98]

This is nonsense (especially on this specific thread); the people whom you are accusing here (myself included) are simply responding to people criticising our vehicles with invalid & irrelevant points because of either ulterior motives or basic misunderstanding of the product; furthermore, the only reason we’re bothering to respond in the first place is because it’s extremely misleading for people whom are genuinely interested in the vehicle (of which I counted you one which is why I responded to you in the first place) & we’re trying to be helpful. Pointing out that the comparisons being made are nonsensical & from a biased perspective, as well as pointing out that there’s a fundamental difference between a true 4x4 & an SUV & that one’s expectations need to be appropriate for the vehicle type, is not ‘setting ourselves apart’ or calling others ‘pretenders’.

I’ll say it again: it’s about knowing what makes sense for your own needs & making your choice accordingly. There’s nothing wrong with an SUV if that fits your needs, but for the love of god stop criticising a purpose built true 4x4 because it’s not a perfect SUV (it’s not supposed to be)!

What makes my arguments invalid and irrelevant? You are insinuating I’m posting in bad faith with an underlying motive, which couldn’t be further from the truth.

What have I said that is misleading? What makes this a “proper” 4x4 while others are SUVs? This isn’t 2005 anymore, live axles or ladder frame construction are not defining factors of an off-roader. Technology has evolved far beyond that loint

Under the assumption that the IG is a “proper” “purpose-built” (this sounds as if it was taken straight out of the marketing booklet) 4x4, it is atrociously priced for such utility. If this is solely built to be a true 4x4, then how many do you think are realistically going to off road/bang up a $72k vehicle?

 

[longwhiteline98]

l've got a customer who has a new Defender 110 and a Grenadier.
So he probably argues with himself all day and night about the relative merits of each vehicle

What else is one to do when bored at work? Be productive?

 

[grenadierboy]

In my neighbourhood, our locals - many are the nouveau rich - so few of them recognise the Porsche for what is stunning design and panache... They see them as trendy, maybe with a little entitlement. New job, new car, all a bit much for my age.
I did once ponder a 924 but got married instead! If the 924 was my choice then it may have changed my life... The wife did not last that long! ...
When the IG finally arrives I will quietly get it dirty and attempt to blend in. The great unwashed truck out on the lawn.

you will not blend in with your Grenadier

 

[globalgregors]

Roses are red , violets are blue , depending upon their velocity relative to you
- Fred Doppler

On fire today Tazzie. Must’ve had a good breakfast.

 

[MrMike]

@DaveB I've always said the 76 is the closest to the IG. Why some potential owners (complainers) can't see that I don't know. Maybe it's because they wanted a new Defender in different clothing?

 

[grenadierboy]

I think the main hang-up I have with the Grenadier is that it does have the same electric functions these other vehicles share, and is reportedly already suffering problems with them. I would’ve held on to my reservation for dear life if it was what it was initially advertised to be: a no-nonsense off-roader. Yet here we are, with a digital center speedo, infotainment, heated leather seats, etc at $72k starting price in the US. I want this vehicle at its initially advertised price without the aforementioned junk.

I see posters on here disillusioned into thinking that this is somehow different from other modern vehicles in this respect. It is a cosplay of the image portrayed by the old Defender. I think Harry’s review reflects merely his opinion; that the Grenadier could be improved if Ineos bought into the possibilities of todays tech. And, in that respect, I disagree with him. The entire initial premise of this vehicle was an offering free of the nonsense, and it appears to be anything-but. I’ve said it on here before, it seems apparent to me that Ineos was to scared too go in either direction - so here we are, with what I see as a lukewarm result/reception.

But, in retrospect, im not sure that’s even possible to produce for the mass market in 2023’s world of regulations.

Thank you for your views - this is all an interesting read this morning - and many have merit.

I note you also included the issue of $$$ as well and this issue has especially been at the center of threads as part of the IG US launch and ordering, much more so than other jurisdictions.

Price seem to be more of a key driver in IG assessments in the US than other markets and I wonder if your views on the Grenadier would be different if it was, say, $15k cheaper in the US?

 

[emax]

There’s lots of irony and projection in this reply, with all due respect. This could be a case study on cognitive dissonance, lol.

You seem desperate to differentiate yourself from those who drive a Defender ...

I've stopped reading your posts after this.

I consider that nothing more than an impudent insult, even if you dress it up in such noble words.

What do you actually want?

It's ok that you are a fan of the new so called Defender. So drive it and be happy, but let others do the same for their Grenadiers. So far I see only that you poison the mood here, and without really arguments but only with your ultimately little authoritative opinion.


For the rest I can only advise my fellow forum members: DFTT.

 

[chriscroft]

I also watched the review and recalled Harry's Defender comments... I thought his opinion of the Grenadier seemed uninformed. Like he had a very cursory read of a brochure, and that was it.
I watched Harry's Bentley Bentayga review. My existing VW Touareg R V8 has maybe 90% of the Bentayga's fluffy bits ... The VW, at a fraction of the money, was a great capable drive when new but .... now, after 90K, the "clever bits" are failing.... they are not kinda Bosch generic, and is that not what we all want? Simple basic stuff that we can tinker with?

Harry's was, to my mind, a one-eyed opinion. OUR choice of a Grenadier is that it is not meant to be up there as the Bentley Bentayga with a growl, the fruits and excess of a $350K vehicle - We are here on this forum as many of us are sick of the BS of computers and button brakes. An old bloke like me cannot wait to get my Grenadier with HANDBRAKE!

The "Harry" reviews really do miss the Unique offering that is Grenadier. I wonder if the Grenadier press team really didn't do their bit, in making sure the Grenadier's raison d'être was fully rammed home to Harry.

The Grenadier proposition:-
You can let non-owners and non-sympathetic drivers take it into the most inhospitable terrain on earth, and there is every chance of making it out the other side.
Village mechanics can fix it
You actually get to drive the vehicle as the Master, and not as a passive directional controller only.
You can confidently mess about with it, without a hissy fit from the Artificial Intelligence cyborg which is quickly becoming modern vehicles
Yes the steering is old-fashioned, but there is a reason for this, it will not break (fingers crossed) and leave you stranded in a lonely inhospitable world of pain.
And most importantly the ownership experience will leave you loving the Grenadier even more after 20 years'+ of ownership, than the day you first got it.

If Harry wants to compare the Grenadier..., then compare it to a £100k+ Defender resto-mod, a really characterful vehicle that you aren't itching to swap in 3 years' time for an update version. A vehicle you can forgive its faults, and just keep going without too much pain.

New Defender is a great vehicle, that can hold its own against any SUV; but is it a 4x4 with the the chacter & longevity to become an enduring family member........probably not!

 

[globalgregors]

@DaveB I've always said the 76 is the closest to the IG. Why some potential owners (complainers) can't see that I don't know. Maybe it's because they wanted a new Defender in different clothing?

@MrMike I think if the use case is suburban/weekend 4WD-ing then in the short term they are largely interchangeable.

Long term I’m not so sure, depending on one’s view of vehicle long term reliability post warranty protections and desire to hold the vehicle for several years versus trade on before or at warranty expiry.

Alternatively, if an owner is going to take their vehicle out and beat it to death over corrugations for years at a time…

 

[globalgregors]

To the original topic, it seems to me that giving Harry access to a vehicle was always going to be somewhat of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don’t conundrum for Ineos UK.

 

[Max]

The Defender Drone

Watching a video posted here of the New Defender being test driven reminded me of remote controlled car...being so electronic and Bluetooth technology I can't see why you couldn't remote control it...not knocking the car just stating that it could be the first SUV Drone 4x4...

Myself, I like driving on a solid platform with shocks and coils but not air...plus what is a 4x4 worth...how do you gauge its value, especially an unknown quantity...I am here for the ride... not negative criticism... happy motoring

 

[Max]

To the original topic, it seems to me that giving Harry access to a vehicle was always going to be somewhat of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don’t conundrum for Ineos UK.

Has it been proven that Ineos gave him the car?

 

[longwhiteline98]

Thank you for your views - this is all an interesting read this morning - and many have merit.

I note you also included the issue of $$$ as well and this issue has especially been at the center of threads as part of the IG US launch and ordering, much more so than other jurisdictions.

Price seem to be more of a key driver in IG assessments in the US than other markets and I wonder if your views on the Grenadier would be different if it was, say, $15k cheaper in the US?

Appreciate the reply. I’m not here with intent to be an ass to anyone.

To answer your question, I think it’s a far more enticing package at $50-60k USD. To fully option one out as-is, you’re looking at over $100k. I refer back to my point I made a number of posts back on streamlining production. Why not offer one model to the US market, stripped of any unnecessary gizmos but with key feature such as locking front/rear diffs. Seeing as how these are made to order, I can’t help but feel it’s partially responsible for the eye watering price.

 

[globalgregors]

Has it been proven that Ineos gave him the car?

I understood it’s a road-registered PT-03 now press vehicle. Hence the missing fasteners etc.

 

[DaveB]

@DaveB I've always said the 76 is the closest to the IG. Why some potential owners (complainers) can't see that I don't know. Maybe it's because they wanted a new Defender in different clothing?

I wonder if the Grenadier was built in Australia would we be saying it was the true spiritual successor or upgrade of the 76 series more than the Defender.

 

[MrMike]

I wonder if the Grenadier was built in Australia would we be saying it was the true spiritual successor or upgrade of the 76 series more than the Defender.

Possibly, but with the body shape it is undeniably a Landrover successor.

 

[bigleonski]

I've driven Toyota's for the last nearly 30 years. Every one capable, unflinchingly reliable, but bland as chicken soup. BUT, they've all done everything I have asked of them (even if I broke bits here and there), and I've taken them all over Australia's worst outback tracks and done some ugly offroading. They just work.
My logical next purchase is a 300 Series. I've always wanted a 70 Series, but they are truely rough as guts to drive, and my 4wd is my daily driver.
I've always liked the look and feel of a defender, and have known lots of people who have had them. Defenders make you a great mechanic a mate of mine says. I always said if they ever made one that was Toyota reliable, and had decent ergonomics inside the thing I'd buy one.
I suppose what I've always wanted is a 200 Series that was as tough and offroad capable as a 70 Series - something in between both. But Toyota don't make that.
And the problem with Toyota is that is lacks what, character? A soul perhaps?

I hope that the IG is that half way point between a 200 and a 70 Series. And I pray that it is as reliable as a Toyota. And it certainly feels like it has a soul.
If it is, then I'll keep it for the next 20 yeas.

I just wish they'd spent a bit more care on the internal plastics.

 

[Tazzieman]

On fire today Tazzie. Must’ve had a good breakfast.

Actually it was a banana chopped into an instant porridge. But in a very nice inn, the Golden Fleece.

You do not want a full English (or Welsh) breakfast when you are horizontal and head down at 10 a.m. Starting at the top of that mountain.

 

[bigleonski]

Actually it was a banana chopped into an instant porridge. But in a very nice inn, the Golden Fleece.

You do not want a full English (or Welsh) breakfast when you are horizontal and head down at 10 a.m. Starting at the top of that mountain.

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I'm a bit lost with this Tazzie - what are you up to?

And how was Cornwall? A mate of mine (Cornish living in Brisbane) has just left to come back after 2 weeks visiting his mom and family. The weather looked decidedly Australian.

 

[Tazzieman]

I'm a bit lost with this Tazzie - what are you up to?

And how was Cornwall? A mate of mine (Cornish living in Brisbane) has just left to come back after 2 weeks visiting his mom and family. The weather looked decidedly Australian.

Spent this week travelling through Wales; Cornwall coastal walk starts next week.
The weather has been 100% perfect so far.