Defender M57 conversion vs Grenadier

[Noddy]

I need some helpful advice.

Currently have a 2001 Defender, completely kitted out for remote travel, pop top camper, long range fuel/water tanks, lockers front and rear, etc. A vehicle I have owned for 20+ years and invested in it heavily in terms of layout and design.

Main reason for considering/ordering the Grenadier is as a replacement for the Defender and being more modern and more comfortable (insert quiet, faster, less tiring) high Kms we do in Australia. We are getting older and the bigger days of driving are becoming harder in the Defender.

However, I am also considering a BMW M57 conversion mated to either the ZF6speed or ZF8speed, which will go close to enabling the Defender to offer many of the same values as the IG.

Cost? Falls in favour of the Defender, especially when one considers the additional $$ to be spent modifying the IG (tanks, racks etc). Resale of the IG is unknown, but prices for Defenders, all kitted out are crazy at the moment.

Capability? Lineball.

Reliability? IG unknown, but should be good. M57 has a great reputation and the rest of the driveline has been rebuilt with stronger than OEM gear over the years.

There is also a very strong attachment to the Defender which only comes from owning for 20+ years and having travelled around Oz in.

In short, do you think a rebuilt Defender, as per the M57/ZF is comparable to the IG?

HELP!!!

 

[Sam]

Interesting comparison/ proposition.

Ex-D110 owner here with no additional experience/ wisdom to offer, other than to say that IMHO there are many many more reasons to upgrade to an IG from a 110 other than just the engine.

I see that you (understandably) are committed to the envelope of your 110 though - and the amenity that it offers - so perhaps it's not a straightforward choice.

Like many on here I guess, I lost all the attached amenity (and time/money/energy I spent on mods) when I sold my 110 to make way for the IG, so will now be doing it again. But to me it's worth it.

 

[DenisM]

Are you proposing to complete this yourself or get a LR indie to do it on your behalf? I can see why you might wish to retain the Defender ...looks like a terrific setup Have you also considered the requirements for engineering approvals etc? LR specialists, Les Richmond Automotive in Thomastown Vic. are worth talking to regarding feasibility. A member on the AULRO forum , just before/during the Covid lockdown commissioned Les Richmond to install a GM LS6 V8 in his Defender. An excellent result from all accounts ....! From his write up, the conversion was not for the faint hearted however! The M57 could be a great conversion. Then you have to weigh the trade-offs. You spend "lotza" dollars and you still have a 20+ yr old vehicle.
Alternatively, the Defender ought bring very good money in the current used car market... however my experience tells me that one doesn't necessarily get any significantly better return on a modified "orphan" ... A classic Defender in original condition is less risk financially for a would-be buyer and therefore more appealing..
I'd recommend getting professional advice .... Good luck !

 

[Sam]

You spend "lotza" dollars and you still have a 20+ yr old vehicle.

This is the key point, I think.

however my experience tells me that one doesn't necessarily get any significantly better return on a modified "orphan" ... A classic Defender in original condition is less risk financially for a would-be buyer and therefore more appealing..

Another strong agree. I think the collectors market ($$$) wants unmolested/ shiny, or pimped/shiny examples only. I personally think the market for good/used 110's has peaked and will decline, with the IG hastening this when it arrives en-masse.

What kind of dollars are we talking about for the work?

 

[Cheshire cat]

As much as I love my Defender, it is old technology and no amount of modification will make it a truly new design. As I grow older, my enthusiasm for driving my Defender long distances has waned. Hence, a new Grenadier on the way. Hoping this is my last big purchase car wise.

 

[DaveB]

I need some helpful advice.

Currently have a 2001 Defender, completely kitted out for remote travel, pop top camper, long range fuel/water tanks, lockers front and rear, etc. A vehicle I have owned for 20+ years and invested in it heavily in terms of layout and design.

Main reason for considering/ordering the Grenadier is as a replacement for the Defender and being more modern and more comfortable (insert quiet, faster, less tiring) high Kms we do in Australia. We are getting older and the bigger days of driving are becoming harder in the Defender.

However, I am also considering a BMW M57 conversion mated to either the ZF6speed or ZF8speed, which will go close to enabling the Defender to offer many of the same values as the IG.

Cost? Falls in favour of the Defender, especially when one considers the additional $$ to be spent modifying the IG (tanks, racks etc). Resale of the IG is unknown, but prices for Defenders, all kitted out are crazy at the moment.

Capability? Lineball.

Reliability? IG unknown, but should be good. M57 has a great reputation and the rest of the driveline has been rebuilt with stronger than OEM gear over the years.

There is also a very strong attachment to the Defender which only comes from owning for 20+ years and having travelled around Oz in.

In short, do you think a rebuilt Defender, as per the M57/ZF is comparable to the IG?

HELP!!!

A mate of mine years ago had a Holden Kingswood Vacationer Stationwagon that he loved but it had 150,000kms on the clock and was old and warn out.
he looked around for a replacement (SUV's weren't a thing then. ) but couldn't find something he liked.
Instead he put in a new engine, paint, suspension, seats, interior etc and he loved it
It was like a new car but still the one he loved.
It may well be the best for you do do the same thing with your defender.

 

[Tom D]

I was going to do the exact same thing with my 110, sadly I bent the chassis in an off road accident. I think that whilst I would have loved an M57 defender, the IG will be a better vehicle to own. There are lots of reasons, the IG has better sound proofing, comfort in the front, comfort in the rear, safety, infotainment, driveline? and will ultimately probably be cheaper to own as many of the components on the defender will already have done many miles..

I still miss it though.

 

[MrMike]

I need some helpful advice.

Currently have a 2001 Defender, completely kitted out for remote travel, pop top camper, long range fuel/water tanks, lockers front and rear, etc. A vehicle I have owned for 20+ years and invested in it heavily in terms of layout and design.

Main reason for considering/ordering the Grenadier is as a replacement for the Defender and being more modern and more comfortable (insert quiet, faster, less tiring) high Kms we do in Australia. We are getting older and the bigger days of driving are becoming harder in the Defender.

However, I am also considering a BMW M57 conversion mated to either the ZF6speed or ZF8speed, which will go close to enabling the Defender to offer many of the same values as the IG.

Cost? Falls in favour of the Defender, especially when one considers the additional $$ to be spent modifying the IG (tanks, racks etc). Resale of the IG is unknown, but prices for Defenders, all kitted out are crazy at the moment.

Capability? Lineball.

Reliability? IG unknown, but should be good. M57 has a great reputation and the rest of the driveline has been rebuilt with stronger than OEM gear over the years.

There is also a very strong attachment to the Defender which only comes from owning for 20+ years and having travelled around Oz in.

In short, do you think a rebuilt Defender, as per the M57/ZF is comparable to the IG?

HELP!!!

I think it's a very personal choice, my opinion, for what it's worth- I know of many who have done the Brunswick Diesel "upgrade" and have regretted it, it sounds good, but it makes them agricultural, I know it's not the same as the M57. You also run the into the adaptation maintenance realm with it's myriad of "specialised" parts.
Comfort factor is a big one for me, I'd rather sit in a decent comfortable 4x4 all day for some good $$ than "enjoy" the experience of remote touring in a restored HJ47, the ability to be able to get up out of your chair after you have your first beer of the evening around the campfire always wins out for me

 

[emax]

Besides power: is the Defender motor and gearbox a problem?
What will a conversion change?

It will still be the noisy and uncomfortable vehicle you currently have. Including the water ingress manual ...

I really love (real) Defenders and understand your reasoning. But I suspect that a new engine and transmission will not make it the car you are aiming for.

For long trips, as you say, the difference to a Grenadier will still be large, even with a new engine. You wrote:

more modern and more comfortable (insert quiet, faster, less tiring) high Kms we do in Australia. We are getting older and the bigger days of driving are becoming harder in the Defender.

I'm afraid, your idea will not solve these issues.

 

[JonSutton]

Sounds like a solid challenge Noddy. First transplanted a Rover V8 3.5 carbs into a Series 2a 88” in 1981 and what a struggle that was for a 24 year old with very little experience, many mistakes. I’ve done several since but never moved away from Rover power. The BM will surely need some serious electrical work to make it work effectively, defo doable but not easy with Landie loom as a base. It wasn’t easy to get second gen EFi working properly and that’s pretty basic, the older LR electrics were dreadful IMO.
If you go that way I’d love to see and hear the end result, bet it will drive fabulously.
I remain loyal to Land Rover, still have eight vehicles, all bar one more than 25 years old.

 

[AWo]

I'm the wrong one to ask (so why do I answer here ). I love old cars with no more than I need to drive. They can be loud and dirty with no comfort as long as they carry me where I want to go. I even have no problem driving 3500 km with an old Series 2a Softop, what I did. That is my definition of having fun driving a car. And I'm over 50 but I feel myself not too old for that kind of shit. Maybe my mindset will change, when I got my Range Rover Classic back on the road.


Maybe.



Ehhm...



No.


Cheers
AWo

 

[AWo]

A mate of mine years ago had a Holden Kingswood Vacationer Stationwagon

Hopefully without the Holden gearshift-mess....three levers to be controlled...

Cheers
AWo

 

[MrMike]

Hopefully without the Holden gearshift-mess....three levers to be controlled...

Cheers
AWo

Sounds like you have experience with the "3 on the tree" gear shift

 

[AWo]

Sounds like you have experience with the "3 on the tree" gear shift

No Sir. Just know about it.

AWo

 

[MrMike]

No Sir. Just know about it.

AWo

Not as bad as it sounds, just a bit of wrist wriggling usually gets you in gear, but if it doesn't its bonnet up, pull on the linkage and you're away!

 

[DaveB]

Hopefully without the Holden gearshift-mess....three levers to be controlled...

Cheers
AWo

Pretty sure it was a column shift

 

[Shaky]

I could be talking out of the back of my head here but I believe there is a company creating interfaces for ECU’s for the BMW engines so they will speak with the Land Rover ones and it is not far off plug and play.

As for whether it is worth keeping the defender over buying an IG.

There is more than just cost as I am sure emotions will be playing a big part. The starting block is how much could you sell the defender for now as it stands. If it is close to the IG price then financially the cost may be worth it. The price of the conversion will stack up against kitting the IG out for what you need.

The newer vehicle will certainly be a joy to drive compared to your current choice and have a warranty. How reliable are the conversions ? (Genuine question)

Only you can say how much your emotions are worth my friend.

 

[Tom D]

I think in many ways an M57 RR classic would be closer to the Grenadier, but they are making stupid money these days as well.

 

[AWo]

There is a rallye company in Belgium which do such conversions. They are successful with their Defender "Tdi" against far stronger prototypes. They drive rock crawling stuff and things like King of Hammer. They also build extremly fast (and expensive) hydraulic winches. If someone is seriously interested...

Cheers
AWo

 

[Intheeyre]

I need some helpful advice.

Currently have a 2001 Defender, completely kitted out for remote travel, pop top camper, long range fuel/water tanks, lockers front and rear, etc. A vehicle I have owned for 20+ years and invested in it heavily in terms of layout and design.

Main reason for considering/ordering the Grenadier is as a replacement for the Defender and being more modern and more comfortable (insert quiet, faster, less tiring) high Kms we do in Australia. We are getting older and the bigger days of driving are becoming harder in the Defender.

However, I am also considering a BMW M57 conversion mated to either the ZF6speed or ZF8speed, which will go close to enabling the Defender to offer many of the same values as the IG.

Cost? Falls in favour of the Defender, especially when one considers the additional $$ to be spent modifying the IG (tanks, racks etc). Resale of the IG is unknown, but prices for Defenders, all kitted out are crazy at the moment.

Capability? Lineball.

Reliability? IG unknown, but should be good. M57 has a great reputation and the rest of the driveline has been rebuilt with stronger than OEM gear over the years.

There is also a very strong attachment to the Defender which only comes from owning for 20+ years and having travelled around Oz in.

In short, do you think a rebuilt Defender, as per the M57/ZF is comparable to the IG?

HELP!!!

Noddy
My nephew is in the process of converting 04 disco to M57 with ZF 6 speed well into transformation of this vehicle he has a lot of knowledge in the process email me if you are interested in asking him grdalton@gmail.com