Europe Communication is ZERO! Does anyone know what is going on? (INEOS Automotive)

[DCPU]

This is the sticker inside the drivers door well:
View attachment 7807025

e9*2018/858*11384

So type approval taken out in Spain (e9).

REGULATION (EU) 2018/858 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 30 May 2018 on the approval and market surveillance of motor vehicles and their trailers, and of systems, components and separate technical units intended for such vehicles, amending Regulations (EC) No 715/2007 and (EC) No 595/2009 and repealing Directive 2007/46/EC

Regulation (EU) 2018/858 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 30 May 2018 on the approval and market surveillance of motor vehicles and their trailers, and of systems, components and separate technical units intended for such vehicles, am

Regulation (EU) 2018/858 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 30 May 2018 on the approval and market surveillance of motor vehicles and their trailers, and of systems, components and separate technical units intended for such vehicles, amending Regulations (EC) No 715/2007 and (EC)...

www.legislation.gov.uk

Type approval certificate number 11384.

I can see three versions or iterations of it:
00 issued 30th August 2022 for N1
01 issued 25th October 2022 for N1
01 issued 7th November 2022 for N1(?)
02 issued 22nd March 2023 for both N1 & M1

NorType XML Server

"The NorType project started in the year 2000 and is a cooperation between Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden. NorType's main objective is to maintain a database of technical vehicle information. The data is extracted from Whole Vehicle Type Approvals, put in standardized form and uploaded to the NorType database after quality checks. The database is then used for vehicle registration in the NorType countries. NorType is stationed at The Icelandic Transport Authority (ICETRA) in Iceland."

 

[Krabby]

Yes what was. the reason software, power steering or suspension bushes.

Has IA officially said it was anything other than the software? There's lots of speculation about steering stuff, but I didn't think anything was directly linked to IA.

 

[Jean Mercier]

So type approval taken out in Spain.

I can see three versions or iterations of it:
00 issued 30th August 2022 for N1
01 issued 25th October 2022 for N1
01 issued 7th November 2022 for N1(?)
02 issued 22nd March 2023 for both N1 & M1

View attachment 7807039

NorType XML Server

"The NorType project started in the year 2000 and is a cooperation between Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden. NorType's main objective is to maintain a database of technical vehicle information. The data is extracted from Whole Vehicle Type Approvals, put in standardized form and uploaded to the NorType database after quality checks. The database is then used for vehicle registration in the NorType countries. NorType is stationed at The Icelandic Transport Authority (ICETRA) in Iceland."

So, e9 = Spain?
And first "M1" vehicle registered on March 22?
Could this be the reason that they couldn't deliver a customer vehicle yet? (besides the software update)

 

[Deleted User Account.]

So far Ive seen almost every excuse possible for the situation with the Grenadier except "The Dog Ate my Homework" They drove a million miles to test out the vehicle and now after almost five months of production, not one person has possession of their vehicle. They sit in the car yard of distributers, with the customers, money in hand, looking from outside the fence. There are little glimpses of final production vehicles on loan doing tours of Scotland or being fitted at an aftermarket accessory joint, but nothing with a vehicle in the customers/owners hands. Ineos have vehicles which are registered here in OZ, allowing sporting people to drive "Off Road" but never on the grey matter. Those same vehicles can be driven from town to town by Ineos employees, but not the people who matter. Even vehicles that are coming off the production line today or yesterday fail to get handed over to their respective new owners. There is some legal embargo going on here I suspect and its got zero to do with software upgrades.

Then give us the option to take delivery on the condition we only drive off road until they get it figured out.

 

[Eric]

So, e9 = Spain?
And first "M1" vehicle registered on March 22?
Could this be the reason that they couldn't deliver a customer vehicle yet? (besides the software update)

That would be my understanding @Jean Mercier. Could be why no urgency to flash the software cos they still couldn't register them.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Hmm that same number "e9*2018/858*11384" has been registered by the Swiss on October 19 (Petrol):

Motoriker 1IB301 - INEOS GRENADIER

Swiss type approval (type certificate) 1IB301 - INEOS GRENADIER Information from typenscheine.ch by Motoriker

typenscheine.ch

And a Diesel on November 16

Motoriker 3IE902 - INEOS GRENADIER

Swiss type approval (type certificate) 3IE902 - INEOS GRENADIER Information from typenscheine.ch by Motoriker

typenscheine.ch

Or something like that, "Delivery vehicles" (16/11) and "Passenger Cars" (19/10), whatever they mean by this

 

[DCPU]

Some interesting stuff on that Swiss site.

 

[acwiltshire]

What reason did your dealer give for not releasing the car to you? It seems like there are a number of stories doing the rounds.

The PDI was done just waiting for software

 

[AnD3rew]

Has IA officially said it was anything other than the software? There's lots of speculation about steering stuff, but I didn't think anything was directly linked to IA.

I don’t think IA have even said software. I think the only official reason given was additional quality checks

 

[Steveo]

I don’t think IA have even said software. I think the only official reason given was additional quality checks

but agents who have been asked seem to consistently reply "software update" (among other things)

 

[Leapoffaith]

For what it’s worth I had a call with the manager of my dealership today. He said that they only got the software update to work on all cars last week (before that it had worked on some but not all) He said delivery of customer vehicles from the start to mid April. Seemed plausible!
Mine still only a chassis number even though I ordered first day, must be too many bits missing from the French factory bins, or I wanted too many extras We live in hope that the beginning of the end is nigh!
Cheers all

 

[grenadierboy]

Agree.
Head of IA Asia/Pacific told me directly in late Feb that the batch & hold was due to both software update issues and minor changes to some parts.

He said the software issue had “pretty much been resolved” but updated OEM part deliveries were still an issue.

And no- he did not want to indicate the some number of parts that require re-working.

 

[DCPU]

So, e9 = Spain?
And first "M1" vehicle registered on March 22?
Could this be the reason that they couldn't deliver a customer vehicle yet? (besides the software update)

e9 = Spain, yes.

Revised type approval for both N1 & M1 vehicle variants was issued on 22nd March 2023 (I've corrected a typo that said 2022).

So my reading is whatever they've been changing in the vehicles has been significant enough that they've had to go back to the type approval process and get revisions/extensions granted. The latest one only being issued last Wednesday.

Without correct type approval no vehicle could be sold.

For the UK it will be different.

For Northern Ireland it will be based on the EU approval but will have an n11* prefix.

For GB (assuming it's met the cut-off date for the Provisional GB Type Approval Scheme) it will have an p9* prefix.

All just my reading of various convoluted and complex bits of legislation and guidance notes.

 

[DenisM]

On behalf of us all... @DCPU I thank you profusely!

 

[Rok_Dr]

e9 = Spain, yes.

Revised type approval for both N1 & M1 vehicle variants was issued on 22nd March 2023 (I've corrected a typo that said 2022).

So my reading is whatever they've been changing in the vehicles has been significant enough that they've had to go back to the type approval process and get revisions/extensions granted. The latest one only being issued last Wednesday.

Without correct type approval no vehicle could be sold.

For the UK it will be different.

For Northern Ireland it will be based on the EU approval but will have an n11* prefix.

For GB (assuming it's met the cut-off date for the Provisional GB Type Approval Scheme) it will have an p9* prefix.

All just my reading of various convoluted and complex bits of legislation and guidance notes.

One hopes that Australian compliance approvals are all sorted

 

[DCPU]

One hopes that Australian compliance approvals are all sorted

It's hard to see how they would be sorted any quicker than the EU ones, especially given the distances involved if it's anything other than a desktop exercise?

 

[JOB]

e9 = Spain, yes.

Revised type approval for both N1 & M1 vehicle variants was issued on 22nd March 2023 (I've corrected a typo that said 2022).

So my reading is whatever they've been changing in the vehicles has been significant enough that they've had to go back to the type approval process and get revisions/extensions granted. The latest one only being issued last Wednesday.

Without correct type approval no vehicle could be sold.

For the UK it will be different.

For Northern Ireland it will be based on the EU approval but will have an n11* prefix.

For GB (assuming it's met the cut-off date for the Provisional GB Type Approval Scheme) it will have an p9* prefix.

All just my reading of various convoluted and complex bits of legislation and guidance notes.

@DCPU Excellent work, you have gone a long way to uncovering the real reason for the delay, which is probably as we suspected for a long time: It's the polyester trousers and working from home brigade and their 'compliance' mandates!

 

[DCPU]

I found this website quite illuminating with regard to type approvals, revisions vs extensions:

https://www.eurococ.eu/en/blog/vehicle-type-approval/#:~:text=The%20type%20approval%20number%20is%20normally%20displayed%20on%20the%20manufacturer's,after%20the%20extension%20was%20approved.

Particularly this section:

"The type approval number is normally displayed on the manufacturer’s statutory plate without the extension number."

"The type approval may be extended up to 99 times, but the extension number shall only ever be given for vehicles that were manufactured after the extension was approved. For existing, already manufactured vehicles, no information relating to the data with which the vehicle was manufactured may be changed. This means that even the extension number (supplement) is never changed for a manufactured vehicle."

Effectively, Ineos looks to be "re-manufacturing" existing vehicles to the current extension number. It might be wise for early adopters to check the certificate of conformity (COC) for their vehicle to see if this is the case or not.

 

[Rok_Dr]

It's hard to see how they would be sorted any quicker than the EU ones, especially given the distances involved if it's anything other than a desktop exercise?

A good question @DCPU. Australia does piggy back off some overseas standards, but our Australian design rule (ADR) compliance approval process has a lot of unique requirements.

However Ineos increased the GVM by 50kg to 3550kg for Australia, which has resulted in the the Grenadier now being classified as medium goods vehicle (NB) here, rather than a light goods (NA) or off road passenger vehicle (MC). As. result it only has to meet a less stringent set of ADRs and is no longer is subject to our luxury car tax, saving the buyer around $10k.

Toyota also did the same thing soon after Ineos with the 70 series Land Cruiser, but only upped the gvm by 10kg to 3510kg.

Link to the current ADR definitions and vehicle categories https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2022C01069

Cheers
Steve

 

[Tazzieman]

Effectively, Ineos looks to be "re-manufacturing" existing vehicles to the current extension number. It might be wise for early adopters to check the certificate of conformity (COC) for their vehicle to see if this is the case or not.

Make sure nobody has COCked it up?