Workshop Manuals available?

[Clark Kent]

When on a page looking at a part, if you click on the question mark there are instructions on how to use the parts catalogue. Also information about copyright and not sharing. Oops View attachment 7906694

And there it is... Good pickup @Logsplitter.

Hi @Stu_Barnes. Sorry to throw this back to you again. We had an exchange about potential copyright back here.
In the last interview with Lynn she sought your assistance to minimise the take-up of access to the manuals. We can support Lynn's request by doing exactly what is occurring here if IAL given a written approval. Those who have access and are willing to assist other forum members can then post content from the manuals without breaching copyright.
The loose part of approval for this purpose is that posting content here is a public release because forum guests can also see the content, i.e. it is not restricted to members only. IAL might not like that.

Would you please take this up with IAL. I'm going to stop posting copyright material until this can be resolved.

 

[DenisM]

And there it is... Good pickup @Logsplitter.

Hi @Stu_Barnes. Sorry to throw this back to you again. We had an exchange about potential copyright back here.
In the last interview with Lynn she sought your assistance to minimise the take-up of access to the manuals. We can support Lynn's request by doing exactly what is occurring here if IAL given a written approval. Those who have access and are willing to assist other forum members can then post content from the manuals without breaching copyright.
The loose part of approval for this purpose is that posting content here is a public release because forum guests can also see the content, i.e. it is not restricted to members only. IAL might not like that.

Would you please take this up with IAL. I'm going to stop posting copyright material until this can be resolved.

On that basis, perhaps certain sections in which all such material is posted, subject to IA approval, should be available to Grenadier owning "members only" ...i.e paid up members..... meaning one would be required to be logged in to review/contribute/access copyright material.
Thoughts?

 

[Clark Kent]

On that basis, perhaps certain sections in which all such material is posted, subject to IA approval, should be available to Grenadier owning "members only" ...i.e paid up members..... meaning one would be required to be logged in to review/contribute/access copyright material.
Thoughts?

Potentially. A sealed section for members only, financial or otherwise. I was leaving that to Stu to determine if he wants to change how the forum operates. I don't want to plant the seed for IAL and therefore create more work for Stu, but it's a logical lockdown he could offer to help get IAL over the line with a blanket approval for forum members.

 

[[ Adam ]]

On that basis, perhaps certain sections in which all such material is posted, subject to IA approval, should be available to Grenadier owning "members only" ...i.e paid up members..... meaning one would be required to be logged in to review/contribute/access copyright material.
Thoughts?

This, IMO only reinforces the need for a paper field service manual - just what you need and nothing you don't, from Ineos.

 

[Clark Kent]

This, IMO only reinforces the need for a paper field service manual - just what you need and nothing you don't, from Ineos.

That's assuming a paper manual would be free of copyright. Generally it's the content that is protected not the format.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

And there it is... Good pickup @Logsplitter.

Hi @Stu_Barnes. Sorry to throw this back to you again. We had an exchange about potential copyright back here.
In the last interview with Lynn she sought your assistance to minimise the take-up of access to the manuals. We can support Lynn's request by doing exactly what is occurring here if IAL given a written approval. Those who have access and are willing to assist other forum members can then post content from the manuals without breaching copyright.
The loose part of approval for this purpose is that posting content here is a public release because forum guests can also see the content, i.e. it is not restricted to members only. IAL might not like that.

Would you please take this up with IAL. I'm going to stop posting copyright material until this can be resolved.

I’ll Work out some sort of consensus with them, or at least find out what the bottom line is.

 

[[ Adam ]]

That's assuming a paper manual would be free of copyright. Generally it's the content that is protected not the format.

I'm okay with paying for such a manual, in support of the copyright holder.

 

[Rok_Dr]

When on a page looking at a part, if you click on the question mark there are instructions on how to use the parts catalogue. Also information about copyright and not sharing. Oops

Thanks @Logsplitter . That's a pretty bullet proof copyright statement..... but very generic and in some parts of the world would be unenforceable.

Fingers crossed @Stu_Barnes you will be able to clarify what is acceptable, given the US is one jurisdiction that has good copyright protections.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Logsplitter]

I think an easy answer for now, is if someone needs some documentation because they are stuck and any of us can help, then we share any documents via private message. This forum is all about finding solutions and helping one another so I’ll be doing that for now until I’m told to desist.

 

[Ex-defender driver]

I think an easy answer for now, is if someone needs some documentation because they are stuck and any of us can help, then we share any documents via private message. This forum is all about finding solutions and helping one another so I’ll be doing that for now until I’m told to desist.

Please do…. I still dont have an email from Ineos for my manual access…. Got car Jan 2023.

 

[Michael H.]

Please do…. I still dont have an email from Ineos for my manual access…. Got car Jan 2023.

Jan 2023 ??
I thought global deliveries started in April 2023, with Australian deliveries a couple of months later.

 

[Ex-defender driver]

Jan 2023 ??
I thought global deliveries started in April 2023, with Australian deliveries a couple of months later.

Ooops Jan 2024 !! Miss typed the year.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Personally I have the following opinion concerning that copyright issue:

• Ineos should make it easy: or it is YES or it is NO copyright for the forum, but ...
• Ineos has used the forum, and still is using the forum to get feedback on the behavior of the car, therefore they should "reward" us by lifting the copyright.
• they were much too late with giving us the access to the documentation, the forum was our documentation, let it stay like this
• they are still not complying with the promise to have a decent workshop network (be it Bosch or others), the forum compensates somehow for this!
• we can help with improving the documentation by discovering mistakes or suggesting improvements
• some simple warranty work can be done by us, instead of by the "sometimes very remote workshop", like I did some days ago with the loose door handle. This is a win-win for us and Ineos.
• most Grenadier owners will anyway never work themselves on the car, therefore does it matter if part of the documentation is accessible?
• making access to documentation easy is a handy commercial attractive argument for getting more customers (like it was in the beginning of their marketing campaign before release of the car).
• of course, I understand that some dealers are not eager to loose some "work opportunities" if documentation is free accessible through the forum.

 

[[ Adam ]]

• Ineos has used the forum, and still is using the forum to get feedback on the behavior of the car, therefore they should "reward" us by lifting the copyright.

This may be an artifact of linguistics, but the proper approach for Ineos would not be to lift or give up their rights under copyright, but to provide the material under a license that maintains their intellectual property rights, while granting some level of use to the forum or owners.

What Ineos does not want to see is a 3rd party take their intellectual property and begin making it available outside of their control, and potentially deriving a profit from this.

If Ineos does not protect their copyright (eg send a cease and desist OR provide some sort of license agreement to the forum or owners) they risk, in some jurisdictions, losing their copyright.

IANAL - but I do believe this can be well handled to protect Ineos automotives ownership and provide the forum/owners some flexibility.

To that end, a creative commons, non commercial license might be ideal.

About CC Licenses - Creative Commons

Creative Commons licenses give everyone from individual creators to large institutions a standardized way to grant the public permission to use their creative work under copyright law. From the reuser’s perspective, the presence of a Creative Commons license on a copyrighted work answers the...

creativecommons.org

In the beginning, Ineos spoke flagrantly about how they were building an "open source" vehicle, I'd love to see them walk the walk.