Winch or not ?

[Fidei Defensor]

Understand what you are seeing - perhaps it is a different spec for the US or we allow removable winches over here. Not sure at this point - but interesting we see two different rules out there.

Sure: there are no "rules" about this is in the US. But this is a statement from Ineos: they have designed the winch for rear usage (with the necessary wiring) and have not approved its use in the front receiver. And probably have not designed and built the front receptacle for the stresses that would be involved in winching. That probably won't stop people ignoring their clear statement, just as there people stupid enough to try kinetic extractions with chains and/or straps hung off a tow ball.

 

[Fidei Defensor]

I spent a few hours wading through this massive thread and there is much good there (and, of course, conflicting opinions!)
As you can see from my avatar, my D90 was fitted with a Warn 8247. One of the oldest, but still the best, electric winches. And in the many years of trips to the best parts of the States (colorado, Utah, Wyoming, etc) I have used it on many occasions, both for self-recovery and to help others. So, of course, my Grenadier is coming with the integrated winch (in spite of its limitations) as an aftermarket solution will be a while coming and may, in the end, cost more.
A few comments on the various suggestions/statements in this thread:
- Yes, the winch line is short, making extensions absolutely necessary. And the ASR X-lock is an excellent piece of kit to ensure you are working with the right length: I already have a 50 ft extension for shortish pulls and a full 100 ft winch line I pulled off my winch when I upgraded, but realise it is in perfect condition, so will service as a long extension.
- Yes, I hate that the visibility of the drum is poor: I forgot to examine this the last time I looked at the US-spec demo, but will look for a solution.
- People mentioned various types of fancy hooks and stoppers to cinch the line up to the fairlead (I have a factor55 on my D90) but you cannot do that with the Factory setup: the spliced termination of the winch line is too thick to fit in the tight space between the winch and the frame: you have to leave this part dangling out (as you see in all photos). Seems a poor bit of engineering, but it was tough to squeeze in a "legal" winch at all, so this is a trade-off
- Much discussion about using the dismountable winch in the front. I don't think that is a good solution. Illegal in Europe, perhaps permissable in other places. But mixed messages from Ineos. I think the integrated winch (or a future 3rd party winch solution) is the way to go
-Tifor/come-alongs: not for me. All the kit will weigh almost as much as a winch! But you alread have a "lightweight" solution with your Hi-Lift Jack and their "off-road kit". I have used this many times for rear extraction. I also carry a base, that is essential to spread the load when jacking in any soft terrain and their "wheel-lifter", that can help raise the wheel and facilitate putting a maxtrack below (or to quickly put a jack under the axle to change a tire.
- finally, to add to the many positives on the integrated winch: I think that it will enhance the desirability of the vehicle if you ever want to sell it (I have no such intention! In fact, I thought my G-wagen was the vehicle I would be buried in, but am happy to sell it on and my Grenadier is the last vehicle I will buy!)

 

[bimmerteck]

emax

I have a Red Winch supplied and installed by Ineos and even if you are only doing 10% off road you need to evaluate the off roading that you may do. Is it remote? Muddy? Dangerous? Solo? what other recovery gear do you carry? Winches need trees or ground anchors etc.

I would suggest a good recovery kit for a casual off roader may consist of: Shovel, high lift jack and a pair of sand ladders.?

The red winch is good quality and very discreetly installed but only has a 15m rope which would mean carrying several other extensions and accessories

Pros and cons to everything in life

INEOS1NZ

I saw it comes with 15m of rope, my question was if that’s all the spool on the winch can hold? Perhaps you would be kid enough to try and evaluate/look at/photograph the installed winch in your Gren?

 

[globalgregors]

I spent a few hours wading through this massive thread and there is much good there (and, of course, conflicting opinions!)
As you can see from my avatar, my D90 was fitted with a Warn 8247. One of the oldest, but still the best, electric winches. And in the many years of trips to the best parts of the States (colorado, Utah, Wyoming, etc) I have used it on many occasions, both for self-recovery and to help others. So, of course, my Grenadier is coming with the integrated winch (in spite of its limitations) as an aftermarket solution will be a while coming and may, in the end, cost more.
A few comments on the various suggestions/statements in this thread:
- Yes, the winch line is short, making extensions absolutely necessary. And the ASR X-lock is an excellent piece of kit to ensure you are working with the right length: I already have a 50 ft extension for shortish pulls and a full 100 ft winch line I pulled off my winch when I upgraded, but realise it is in perfect condition, so will service as a long extension.
- Yes, I hate that the visibility of the drum is poor: I forgot to examine this the last time I looked at the US-spec demo, but will look for a solution.
- People mentioned various types of fancy hooks and stoppers to cinch the line up to the fairlead (I have a factor55 on my D90) but you cannot do that with the Factory setup: the spliced termination of the winch line is too thick to fit in the tight space between the winch and the frame: you have to leave this part dangling out (as you see in all photos). Seems a poor bit of engineering, but it was tough to squeeze in a "legal" winch at all, so this is a trade-off
- Much discussion about using the dismountable winch in the front. I don't think that is a good solution. Illegal in Europe, perhaps permissable in other places. But mixed messages from Ineos. I think the integrated winch (or a future 3rd party winch solution) is the way to go
-Tifor/come-alongs: not for me. All the kit will weigh almost as much as a winch! But you alread have a "lightweight" solution with your Hi-Lift Jack and their "off-road kit". I have used this many times for rear extraction. I also carry a base, that is essential to spread the load when jacking in any soft terrain and their "wheel-lifter", that can help raise the wheel and facilitate putting a maxtrack below (or to quickly put a jack under the axle to change a tire.
- finally, to add to the many positives on the integrated winch: I think that it will enhance the desirability of the vehicle if you ever want to sell it (I have no such intention! In fact, I thought my G-wagen was the vehicle I would be buried in, but am happy to sell it on and my Grenadier is the last vehicle I will buy!)

 

[globalgregors]

I saw it comes with 15m of rope, my question was if that’s all the spool on the winch can hold? Perhaps you would be kid enough to try and evaluate/look at/photograph the installed winch in your Gren?

Yup, it’s maxed out.

 

[Msnow22]

I spent a few hours wading through this massive thread and there is much good there (and, of course, conflicting opinions!)
As you can see from my avatar, my D90 was fitted with a Warn 8247. One of the oldest, but still the best, electric winches. And in the many years of trips to the best parts of the States (colorado, Utah, Wyoming, etc) I have used it on many occasions, both for self-recovery and to help others. So, of course, my Grenadier is coming with the integrated winch (in spite of its limitations) as an aftermarket solution will be a while coming and may, in the end, cost more.
A few comments on the various suggestions/statements in this thread:
- Yes, the winch line is short, making extensions absolutely necessary. And the ASR X-lock is an excellent piece of kit to ensure you are working with the right length: I already have a 50 ft extension for shortish pulls and a full 100 ft winch line I pulled off my winch when I upgraded, but realise it is in perfect condition, so will service as a long extension.
- Yes, I hate that the visibility of the drum is poor: I forgot to examine this the last time I looked at the US-spec demo, but will look for a solution.
- People mentioned various types of fancy hooks and stoppers to cinch the line up to the fairlead (I have a factor55 on my D90) but you cannot do that with the Factory setup: the spliced termination of the winch line is too thick to fit in the tight space between the winch and the frame: you have to leave this part dangling out (as you see in all photos). Seems a poor bit of engineering, but it was tough to squeeze in a "legal" winch at all, so this is a trade-off
- Much discussion about using the dismountable winch in the front. I don't think that is a good solution. Illegal in Europe, perhaps permissable in other places. But mixed messages from Ineos. I think the integrated winch (or a future 3rd party winch solution) is the way to go
-Tifor/come-alongs: not for me. All the kit will weigh almost as much as a winch! But you alread have a "lightweight" solution with your Hi-Lift Jack and their "off-road kit". I have used this many times for rear extraction. I also carry a base, that is essential to spread the load when jacking in any soft terrain and their "wheel-lifter", that can help raise the wheel and facilitate putting a maxtrack below (or to quickly put a jack under the axle to change a tire.
- finally, to add to the many positives on the integrated winch: I think that it will enhance the desirability of the vehicle if you ever want to sell it (I have no such intention! In fact, I thought my G-wagen was the vehicle I would be buried in, but am happy to sell it on and my Grenadier is the last vehicle I will buy!)

I decided to wait on the aftermarket. I have never had an 8274 but that is the winch I want on this vehicle. For some reason it just feels right to me that should be the pairing. I have already seen the Letech bumper solution which looks good but am hoping it will work with an 8274 or I will have to build my own.

 

[grenadierboy]

View attachment 7830145

Agree a good solution.

Been on for 6 weeks but line has lost a wee bit of tension a couple of times.

 

[hopefulkiwi]

In my experience there are two types of winch users
The extreme off roaders who take 10 hours to do 3 km and use their winch all day.
The more light duty off roader who will almost always use their winch to rescue someone else. For example the last trip we were on we had to rescue fellow who was stuck below the high water mark who had no rescue gear at all. If you intend to do any remote off roading by yourself i think a winch is very wise. With the Ineos i think extensions and xlock and several soft shackles and pulleys. I dont currentluy have a winch but will prolly get one and will look seriously at their rescue kit

 

[Tazzieman]

The flippable number plate bracket seems very flimsy. It will break, just a matter of when. Ah well , that's why we carry occy straps.

 

[Fidei Defensor]

View attachment 7830145

OK: Did I quote false information regarding the warning not to spool the winch line all the way in? I "seem" to remember that this information was posted, either on this Forum, or one of the FB pages.
Maybe it is false? or maybe it was just to prevent people "losing" the end of the winch line, as the line, as supplied, comes only with a soft loop, that could be winched inside the fairlead.
Did you modify the terminstion of the winch line to accept this saber "stopper"? or is it sitting "loose" in the (large) loop?

 

[Fidei Defensor]

I decided to wait on the aftermarket. I have never had an 8274 but that is the winch I want on this vehicle. For some reason it just feels right to me that should be the pairing. I have already seen the Letech bumper solution which looks good but am hoping it will work with an 8274 or I will have to build my own.

Remember it is tall: it it block the radiation somewhat and slightly compromised the cooling of my D90. Should not be a problem with the Grenadier...

 

[globalgregors]

OK: Did I quote false information regarding the warning not to spool the winch line all the way in? I "seem" to remember that this information was posted, either on this Forum, or one of the FB pages.
Maybe it is false? or maybe it was just to prevent people "losing" the end of the winch line, as the line, as supplied, comes only with a soft loop, that could be winched inside the fairlead.
Did you modify the terminstion of the winch line to accept this saber "stopper"? or is it sitting "loose" in the (large) loop?

It just needs to be wound on carefully @Fidei Defensor. If one is not prepared to guide the last section of line it would be better to stop at the marked location.

I was concerned about the performance under load, a major reason to install the winch shackle (which ensures both the winch line eye and the soft shackle are kept at the desired diameter).

If you zoom in you might spot that I have a spool around the shank of the winch shackle, which has a similar effect as a fixed eye.
If you compare it to @grenadierboy ’s example (maybe is without a spool?) you can picture the effect just having a bare shank.

I don’t anticipate any issue with NOT using a spool, but our use case anticipates operating a long way from replacement components (and medical assistance), so our setup is designed to maximise the longevity of shackles/line and the safety of winching operations. Normal users can rather easily just pick up new soft shackles when the ones they use show wear/are damaged.

If one isn’t planning to use a shackle in this way it may be worth sleeving the exposed section of winch line, simply to protect it from the elements etc.

T Synthetic Dyneema Winch Rope Sleeve Sox By The Meter - 4x4 OFFROAD CLINIC

T Synthetic Dyneema Winch Rope Sleeve Sox By The Meter. A protective winch rope sleeve will protect your winch rope from abrasion and. . . .

www.4x4offroadclinic.com.au

 

[Fidei Defensor]

It just needs to be wound on carefully @Fidei Defensor. If one is not prepared to guide the last section of line it would be better to stop at the marked location.

I was concerned about the performance under load, a major reason to install the winch shackle (which ensures both the winch line eye and the soft shackle are kept at the desired diameter).

If you zoom in you might spot that I have a spool around the shank of the winch shackle, which has a similar effect as a fixed eye.
If you compare it to @grenadierboy ’s example (maybe is without a spool?) you can picture the effect just having a bare shank.

I don’t anticipate any issue with NOT using a spool, but our use case anticipates operating a long way from replacement components (and medical assistance), so our setup is designed to maximise the longevity of shackles/line and the safety of winching operations. Normal users can rather easily just pick up new soft shackles when the ones they use show wear/are damaged.

If one isn’t planning to use a shackle in this way it may be worth sleeving the exposed section of winch line, simply to protect it from the elements etc.

T Synthetic Dyneema Winch Rope Sleeve Sox By The Meter - 4x4 OFFROAD CLINIC

T Synthetic Dyneema Winch Rope Sleeve Sox By The Meter. A protective winch rope sleeve will protect your winch rope from abrasion and. . . .

www.4x4offroadclinic.com.au

Did you change the termination of the winch line (removing the big loop) or is the Saber soft eye spool and shackle sitting "loose" in the big loop??

 

[Fidei Defensor]

It just needs to be wound on carefully @Fidei Defensor. If one is not prepared to guide the last section of line it would be better to stop at the marked location.

I was concerned about the performance under load, a major reason to install the winch shackle (which ensures both the winch line eye and the soft shackle are kept at the desired diameter).

If you zoom in you might spot that I have a spool around the shank of the winch shackle, which has a similar effect as a fixed eye.
If you compare it to @grenadierboy ’s example (maybe is without a spool?) you can picture the effect just having a bare shank.

I don’t anticipate any issue with NOT using a spool, but our use case anticipates operating a long way from replacement components (and medical assistance), so our setup is designed to maximise the longevity of shackles/line and the safety of winching operations. Normal users can rather easily just pick up new soft shackles when the ones they use show wear/are damaged.

If one isn’t planning to use a shackle in this way it may be worth sleeving the exposed section of winch line, simply to protect it from the elements etc.

T Synthetic Dyneema Winch Rope Sleeve Sox By The Meter - 4x4 OFFROAD CLINIC

T Synthetic Dyneema Winch Rope Sleeve Sox By The Meter. A protective winch rope sleeve will protect your winch rope from abrasion and. . . .

www.4x4offroadclinic.com.au

I guess by careful spooling you mean to ensure the "fat" line terminstion is not passing back over the last wrap? Do yo feel any resistance/friction when pulling out the "fat" end? Is it flattened?

 

[Jean Mercier]

Does Ineos mount an emergency off switch in the positive power line to the winch?

AWo

Not that I know, but you have of course the roof button to activate and deactivate the power to the winch.

 

[AWo]

Not that I know, but you have of course the roof button to activate and deactivate the power to the winch.

Ok, thanks. I talk about interrupting the main power to the winch in case a relais is hanging (due to overheating). In that case only a high power switch can stop the winch.

I don't know what that switch in the roof is switching...

AWo

 

[globalgregors]

Did you change the termination of the winch line (removing the big loop) or is the Saber soft eye spool and shackle sitting "loose" in the big loop??

Yes, correct. No change to the line @Fidei Defensor .

 

[globalgregors]

I guess by careful spooling you mean to ensure the "fat" line terminstion is not passing back over the last wrap? Do yo feel any resistance/friction when pulling out the "fat" end? Is it flattened?

Yes, also correct. No, the line is not compressed on the spool.
I did however unwind/rewind the line after taking delivery to check the line and ensure it was wound on correctly.

 

[Ineos1NZ]

I saw it comes with 15m of rope, my question was if that’s all the spool on the winch can hold? Perhaps you would be kid enough to try and evaluate/look at/photograph the installed winch in your Gren?

the rope supplied is 15m, the drum is narrower than most due to the custom build and to make it fit between the front chassis rails. there is a possibility that if you can locate a stronger rope of a smaller diameter then it could be longer.

 

[Tazzieman]

It just needs
If one isn’t planning to use a shackle in this way it may be worth sleeving the exposed section of winch line, simply to protect it

For now I'll just use some corrugated conduit - the black stuff. And a Christmas novelty sock for the eye.