US emissions rollback -- possible to get diesel grenadier in US now?

[alcaniz]

So yesterday in the news I saw that the administration is rolling back the CAFE standards for cars in the US:

Trump announces roll back of Biden-era vehicle fuel efficiency rules: 'Expensive restrictions'

Trump is set to announce a loosening of vehicle fuel efficiency standards that were put in place during Biden's administration, a White House official confirmed.

abcnews.go.com

I wonder if this means it would be possible for Ineos to import Grenadiers with the diesel B57 engine now. I've been eyeing a Grenadier purchase for the past year or so -- being able to get a diesel would make it a lot more tempting to pull the trigger on a purchase.

 

[Krabby]

I see you're new here so first off, welcome to the club. I don't think it was CAFE standards directly that denied us the B57, but rather BMW pulling that engine completely from the NA market. Diesel cars have always been marginal here but the nail in the coffin was the diesel-gate cluster from VW et al.

That said, we have a no politics thing around here so we can't let this very appropriate, relevant topic slide down that slippery slope. I will say, however, in a neutral way that the problem with government regulation at the moment is two fold - first, they can't decide what they want (they don't care what "we" want regardless) and second, the next person in the door can easily make a change. It doesn't matter what side of the aisle you're on because the reality is when parties swap places it's a game of "how quickly can I undo what the last guy did."

 

[Tom109]

And BMW would have to $ubsidize (e.g. pay with a capital $) all the relevant EPA testing if previous tests were no longer applicable to the current motor.

 

[skinny_tom]

I think at issue yesterday was the "average" fuel mileage of the fleet sold by a particular marquis. I don't know how Ineos sells only one model and doesn't have to meet it.

The issue with diesel is pollution. Specifically, I think, particulate matter. What caught VW is that they didn't want to have to fill the DEF between dealer services, so they cheated in a manner which is legal in Europe, but not the US. Then they lied about it- and that's where our government took issue. (For the record, every major manufacturer of vehicles sold in the US has crossed the EPA once or twice- or more- and just paid the fine and fixed the problem. VW LIED ABOUT IT.) So, you'll need a larger DEF tank to meet US standards, from what I can tell, and that means less space for everything else- probably diesel.

I would imagine that it's just easier to stay out of it, and as Krabby says, the next guy might change the standard again.

I sure would love a diesel though.

 

[Tom109]

I sure would love a diesel though.

For performance reasons, torque and engine braking - yes!

Considering DEF, regeneration cycles and modern emissions - hell no!

 

[alcaniz]

And BMW would have to $ubsidize (e.g. pay with a capital $) all the relevant EPA testing if previous tests were no longer applicable to the current motor.

thanks @Krabby! And yeah @Tom109 that is a good point, this is ultimately up to whether BMW is willing to do this, and given the uncertainty of whether these regulatory changes will stick, they are probably very hesitant to invest any time or money in that.

As for dealing with DEF, regeneration cycles and all that -- I've had very little issue with that with my diesel range rover sport. It was finicky at first when I did more stop and go city driving, but living out in the country, driving usually 15-20 miles to get to anything, I've had basically no problems with it, for years now. It's great getting about 30mpg in the rr sport while having that torque and towing capacity still. It also seems like an engine choice that literally only makes sense for people who are in my scenario, which there are very few of. Was sad to see LR drop its diesels/offer no diesel in the new defender.

 

[landmannnn]

What caught VW is that they didn't want to have to fill the DEF between dealer services, so they cheated in a manner which is legal in Europe, but not the US

A slight misconception, the US issued fines federally.

Europe is a continent, not a country so each country had to decide it was illegal and fines were dished out on a country by country basis.

 

[Tom109]

thanks @Krabby! And yeah @Tom109 that is a good point, this is ultimately up to whether BMW is willing to do this, and given the uncertainty of whether these regulatory changes will stick, they are probably very hesitant to invest any time or money in that.

As for dealing with DEF, regeneration cycles and all that -- I've had very little issue with that with my diesel range rover sport. It was finicky at first when I did more stop and go city driving, but living out in the country, driving usually 15-20 miles to get to anything, I've had basically no problems with it, for years now. It's great getting about 30mpg in the rr sport while having that torque and towing capacity still. It also seems like an engine choice that literally only makes sense for people who are in my scenario, which there are very few of. Was sad to see LR drop its diesels/offer no diesel in the new defender.

I had a 2003 VW Tdi, the last of the great ALH motors. What a fantastic vehicle. I also sold components into the off-highway industry (commercial not 4x4) and saw the writing the wall. If you had a pre-BS diesel you would understand.

 

[LabRat]

If it had been available, I would have gone diesel, since I was coming off a big Duramax, I miss the high flow pumps, but don't miss dealing with the DEF and typically dirtier diesel pumps.

Diesel really lost out around 2007/2008 here in the states with the ultra-low sulphur mandate and all the enhanced emissions required that killed performance.