Australasia Total cost at the driveway

[Davman]

For the few months of filling out the log book, then it is 100% a work vehicle.?
After the log book has been filled out, that is also the time when work necessary accessories start appearing on the vehicle.

 

[grenadierboy]

got it

 

[DaveB]

I am not going to put any Rhinorack products on my car as they are not very good. 
Only accessories I will add to the Trialmaster are the permanently fixed ones such as Safari windows, Roo bar, side steps, snorkel, 17" alloys?? and possibly leather but thinking of getting lambs wool seat covers so no need for leather. 

 

[DaveB]

I only claim 60% work as my car is owned by me and the company pays for fuel and gives me a car allowance. Company then has to pay fringe benefits tax 
I had a lot of hassle pushing for 60% business use 

 

[emax]

Here in Germany you have to think twice whether or not you buy a car as a company car or privately. At least for one-man companies like me.

If I buy the Grenadier for my GmbH (=Ltd.) the fiscal authorities charge tax for a fictitious monthly 1% income based on payed price. This means: I have to pay tax for a fictitious income as high as 12 % of the cars price - per year. For a purchase price of 70000€ this is 8400€ of income for which I have to pay income tax. And this is at a top quote of 45% income tax quite a lot: 3780€ every year, and this doesn't change, no matter how old the car gets.  BTW: If you by a Mercedes 300 SL with gullwing doors from 1957 (a $250'000 - $1'000'000 market value today), the purchase price of 29000 DM (15000€) from 1957 still applies ...

Insurance, repairs, fuel and all other costs are then payed by the company. There is an additional yearly tax on the car based on the displacement. This is payed by the company as well. For a Diesel (highest rate, of course) you pay, depending on the CO2 and particle emissions (Euro 6d for the Grenadier) in case of the Grenadier 36,90€ per 125 cm³ and year which yields a yearly 885 Euro "Displacement Tax" for the Grenadier Diesel - whether I drive it or not. :-(

If you try to keep the purchase price low in that you buy accessories later, it won't help you: You have to declare what the bought item is for, and if it is a car-accessory it is simply added to the cost of the car. Even a $20 cup holder can then not be written of immediately but is just part of the car and thus written off over six years.

After the six years regular write-off period for cars the car has a book-value of 1 Euro. But you can not just buy it from the company for that price but have to pay the market-price. If the net value  is still 30'000 Euros, you have to pay an additional VAT of 19% so the final price I'd have to pay to my company for the Grenadier is 35700 Euros.

To sum up beyond all numbers:

If the company buys  a car she will have less profit and thus my income will be smaller. Write-offs mitigate this but the only relevant number is finally my profit from the company. Additionally, I have to pay the tax on a 12% fictitious income from the purchase price per year. If I take over the car after 6 years I still have to pay a significant price for it.

If I buy the car privately the company has more profit and thus my private income is higher - which in turn however yields a higher income tax for me. I have to pay for the car, the taxes, insurance  and all operational costs my self.

It takes a sophisticated Excel-sheet to find out what the better option is. And this is risky as this needs quite some heuristic assumptions on the future business of the company.

 

[RTG]

Strewth, I won’t complain again about Australia’s process. 

 

[Davman]

? You lost me at Hello.

 

[Davman]

If you login to your Account page you will see a new page:

IMPORTANT INFORMATION
Please be advised that INEOS is in the processes of submitting a luxury car tax (LCT) exemption application to the Australia Tax Office (ATO).  Accordingly, the Grenadier Drive Away Prices include LCT and is subject to change without notice. 

 

[grenadierboy]

That sound fantastic (although it probably should have been submitted many weeks ago). 

The INEOS tax advisers would have been asked to review the LCT regulations and provide their advice.

I would think that the tax advisers would not be making such a submission unless they were of the view that the Grenadier is indeed exempt. 

Hopefully it's a box ticking exercise not and clear cut.

 

[HT]

If you login to your Account page you will see a new page:

IMPORTANT INFORMATION
Please be advised that INEOS is in the processes of submitting a luxury car tax (LCT) exemption application to the Australia Tax Office (ATO).  Accordingly, the Grenadier Drive Away Prices include LCT and is subject to change without notice. 

Im struggling to make sense of that ‘important information’. 

 

[Davman]

I am pretty sure it means that they have submitted an exemption to the ATO some time ago, and have not heard back yet, but would be confident of obtaining the exemption.  The LC70 has a special LCT exemption as well.

Given that these things take some time, and that they haven't heard back from the ATO on this yet, any quotes etc give at this very minute will have to include the LCT, however it will hopefully be removed by the time the Tax Invoice is prepared.

It will be great if the LCT is removed, but it also adds another layer of unknowns into the equation.

 

[DaveB]

The selected feature is a removable accessory that will be installed post-registration by your chosen retail partner and is not considered on the vehicle’s CO2 calculation. Price includes VAT and fitment. 

This one answers the question about LCT on accessories and added charges by the dealer

 

[grenadierboy]

OK

So I have prepared a full price configuration ($104,980 which includes GST) and at checkout, as well as on-road costs - LCT of $10,051 has been added to the final price to pay. 

So I guess this will remain "to pay" until such time as the tax office responds on the LCT exemption ruling.

 

[DaveB]

Interest rates are interesting (no pun intended) 
I notice in Australia it defaults to 5.29% which is a bit high but in the ball park.
South Africa defaults to 8.5% which is crazy. 
Didn't look at others

 

[DaveB]

A couple of charges I could do without
I am paying them $350 to check to see if they built/shipped the car in good condition. 
$118 for fuel??? 
Not sure how much fuel that is but I only need enough to get me to the nearest service station so I can fill up myself.
I don't pay for my own fuel


 

 

[RTG]

!/2 a tank or........ big Jim might be benevolent and subsidising the other half.
I doubt it. 

 

[Davman]

After reading way too much information, I think the Stations Wagons will not be LCT exempt, however the Utility will be.
You can read into the way that INOES are describing the Station Wagon on  the website as a "5 seater passenger vehicle... emphasis slightly more on passenger carrying than load space"
Compared with the Utility as "Designed primarily to carry loads"

These terminologies are almost textbook copies from the ATO themselves.  In providing any exemptions from LCT, the ATO does look at how the vehicles are being advertised.  And based on how they are advertised, I think INOES are already telling us.

So at the end of the day, that rear seat costs a whole lot more than the $1000 they are charging for it.

 

[grenadierboy]

I disagree Davman.

We know that commercial vehicles, designed for the main purpose of carrying goods, are exempt from LCT.

To determine the main purpose of a vehicle you apply a principal purpose test. This test considers the vehicle's appearance, presentation in marketing material, it's load carrying capacity and the number of passengers it can carry. 

Vehicles with a load carrying capacity of less than two tonnes can be designed to have a dual purpose of both carrying goods and passengers. Such vehicles include "utility" vehicles and Grenadier would clearly fall into this category.

The LCT regulations still need to get to a view on whether the dual purpose vehicle is a commercial vehicle or not for LCT exemption purposes.

So - the regulations determine what the PRIMARY purpose of a dual purpose vehicle is.

To do so, the regulations use an Australian Design Rules formula to determine whether the primary purpose of a dual purpose vehicle is the carrying goods or passengers - it can't be both.

A dual purpose vehicle is considered primarily for carrying goods if the number of seats x 68kg is less than 50% of the difference between GVM’ & tare mass.

APPLYING FORMULA TO THE GRENADIER MEANS IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED PRIMARILY A GOODS CARRYING VEHICLE AND THUS WOULD BE A COMMERCIAL VEHICLE AND EXEMPT FROM LCT.

What I don't know is whether the ATO would not grant an LCT exemption even where the Grenadier satisfies the load carrying formula for being a commercial vehicle because of it's marketing and promotional material having a strong passenger focus. Does the formula trump appearance/presentation etc.




 

 

[DaveB]

[QUOTE username=Mark Evans  grenadierboy userid=8954799 postid=1332657830]I disagree Davman.

We know that commercial vehicles, designed for the main purpose of carrying goods, are exempt from LCT.

To determine the main purpose of a vehicle you apply a principal purpose test. This test considers the vehicle's appearance, presentation in marketing material, it's load carrying capacity and the number of passengers it can carry. 

Vehicles with a load carrying capacity of less than two tonnes can be designed to have a dual purpose of both carrying goods and passengers. Such vehicles include "utility" vehicles and Grenadier would clearly fall into this category.

The LCT regulations still need to get to a view on whether the dual purpose vehicle is a commercial vehicle or not for LCT exemption purposes.

So - the regulations determine what the PRIMARY purpose of a dual purpose vehicle is.

To do so, the regulations use an Australian Design Rules formula to determine whether the primary purpose of a dual purpose vehicle is the carrying goods or passengers - it can't be both.

A dual purpose vehicle is considered primarily for carrying goods if the number of seats x 68kg is less than 50% of the difference between GVM’ & tare mass.

APPLYING FORMULA TO THE GRENADIER MEANS IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED PRIMARILY A GOODS CARRYING VEHICLE AND THUS WOULD BE A COMMERCIAL VEHICLE AND EXEMPT FROM LCT.

What I don't know is whether the ATO would not grant an LCT exemption even where the Grenadier satisfies the load carrying formula for being a commercial vehicle because of it's marketing and promotional material having a strong passenger focus. Does the formula trump appearance/presentation etc.




 


[/QUOTE]I can think of 12,000 reasons why I hope you are correct

 

[Davman]

Mark.  It is an interesting conversation that is for sure.

Based on the worse case scenario of the 5 Seat Diesel which has a maximum payload of 810kg.
Based on the 5x68kg rule, then that would mean that 340kg is Passsenger, and 470kg is Payload.
So surely this would mean that it is automatically a goods carrying vehicle and therefore exempt from LCT.

I agree with you there are many unknowns still.  If under this scenario above all versions are automatically exempt from LCT - then why are INEOS having to apply for an exemption?
Perhaps its just to make things 100% clear??