UK & Ireland Thinking... And Also Used Grenadiers

[BigJock2024]

Hello everyone, this is my first post, so a bit of an introduction before the questions!

I bought my first Land Rover around 20 years ago, and it was an '88 3.5 EFI classic with a few problems which I sorted. I've since had 5 of those lovelies in total over the years doing plenty of club off-roading. I also had a P38 which I try to forget about and still feel guilty for auctioning it off with slipped liners...
I've had 3 Discoveries (Mks 2,3 and 4) and a Defender (chipped TD5 at 186bhp that I took to190,000 miles) plus a V8 super-charged L322 and my current bus is a V6 L405. Only the Defender and Discos were diesel, the rest all petrol which I strongly prefer, and it helps that my mileage is low.
I love my current L405 to bits... it's just the nuts. How LR have managed to retain the spirit of the Range Rover while getting it to the level of luxury they have amazes me.
Touching vast amounts of wood, I've been remarkably lucky. The ONLY LR that has ever let me down was the P38, as the air suspension dumped it's guts at the side of the M6 requiring a 160 mile recovery... I fitted OME coils and shocks and never looked back.. until it started drinking coolant. Actually the turbo blew on the Defender, but that was as I got home, so I limped into the driveway and replaced it in-situ with a recon from London Turbos. No bother at all, and only cost me 2 broken knuckles and a right finger.

Anyhoo.... I test drove a Fieldmaster at the weekend. Well. I have to say I was gripped by it. I mean, REALLY gripped by it. Very unusual - I like my cars, trucks and bikes, but I haven't been so taken by something so much for a long, long time. I ripped around a few roundabouts, and bounced it up a couple of quite nasty back lanes. I was astonished at the feeling of total and utter solidity. It took me around 5 minutes to get used to the steering, and since I'm such a short-arse I didn't really notice "the lump". Only when the demo guy told me about it and the exhaust pipe problem did I wonder, but I just thought it was quite a nice big footplate like the T5 Transporter has. I'm not convinced that would bother me. I loved the controls, the cabin, the display, the cargo mounts, the solid doors, the twin sunroofs. The LH rear door is pointless, and clearly you have to open both... don't care. I liked the wheels, and the tyres. I liked the fat sporty steering wheel in a 4x4. I though the road noise wasn't even noticable. I drove right up the arse of a Discovery Sport and shouted "how does this feel? Yeaaahhh!!!" before backing off, apologising and realising I was behaving like a BMW driver. I liked opening and closing the doors. Solid. I liked resting my arm on the door just like my beloved Defender. I just bloody liked it.

I would sum up my first hour in a test drive Grenadier as follows: if JRL had decided to continue with the real Defender, then this car is exactly how the XS would be built right now, today. Just enough luxury, and not too much tech. Radcliffe has hit the bullseye on that one. It's also what I would ideally take my Defender to - if I was happy to spend £20k on mods and garage time.

So... do I buy one?

First: I'm letting the schoolboy hormonal rush subside, as we all know daft things are done when wood's around. Else I might walk straight in and spend the wife's pension pot on a Fieldmaster with all the extras.
Second: I'm going to read more about the models, the options and the taxation mess as I've never bought a new vehicle. Maybe a used one is the way to go? There's plenty around... more on that later.
Third: I would like another test drive, and see if it gives me hot flushes again. If it does, then that kind of seals it.

A question that's asked a lot: why are there so many used with 2,000 - 5,000 miles on them? The prices are such that these can't be people "flipping" them as was predicted. I saw a comment from mikemike39 about how it would be possible if you've bought one early at a fixed price, but after dealer profit margin I can't see them having made much money? Demand in the UK has not materialise as it has elsewhere, or as Ineos anticipated.

So that makes me wonder: is this just people who've wanted to be "on-trend" and pose around in this thing, then realised it's not the same as their X7 or Q6 or whatever? Are they tall people who can't take the driving position? Are their wives nagging them (sorry, sexist) because the rear door's no good for shopping? Are the kids crying because there's no rear screens like there was in the Galaxy to watch Tinkywanks on? Did they just get bored and realise they'd overspent on a vanity project.

Or, are they scaring people with false alarms, incomplete service network, not yet good enough service levels, and those buyers are just bottling it?

If you like, please give me some advice. Is it normal to get so aroused in a 4x4? Should I buy one? Should I buy used? Why are so many being sold with low miles, and are they potentially broken?

I don't know what to do, but I think I really want one.

Thanks for any and all thoughts, comments and feedback. Cheer the noo. Jock

 

[DaBull]

Hello everyone, this is my first post, so a bit of an introduction before the questions!

I bought my first Land Rover around 20 years ago, and it was an '88 3.5 EFI classic with a few problems which I sorted. I've since had 5 of those lovelies in total over the years doing plenty of club off-roading. I also had a P38 which I try to forget about and still feel guilty for auctioning it off with slipped liners...
I've had 3 Discoveries (Mks 2,3 and 4) and a Defender (chipped TD5 at 186bhp that I took to190,000 miles) plus a V8 super-charged L322 and my current bus is a V6 L405. Only the Defender and Discos were diesel, the rest all petrol which I strongly prefer, and it helps that my mileage is low.
I love my current L405 to bits... it's just the nuts. How LR have managed to retain the spirit of the Range Rover while getting it to the level of luxury they have amazes me.
Touching vast amounts of wood, I've been remarkably lucky. The ONLY LR that has ever let me down was the P38, as the air suspension dumped it's guts at the side of the M6 requiring a 160 mile recovery... I fitted OME coils and shocks and never looked back.. until it started drinking coolant. Actually the turbo blew on the Defender, but that was as I got home, so I limped into the driveway and replaced it in-situ with a recon from London Turbos. No bother at all, and only cost me 2 broken knuckles and a right finger.

Anyhoo.... I test drove a Fieldmaster at the weekend. Well. I have to say I was gripped by it. I mean, REALLY gripped by it. Very unusual - I like my cars, trucks and bikes, but I haven't been so taken by something so much for a long, long time. I ripped around a few roundabouts, and bounced it up a couple of quite nasty back lanes. I was astonished at the feeling of total and utter solidity. It took me around 5 minutes to get used to the steering, and since I'm such a short-arse I didn't really notice "the lump". Only when the demo guy told me about it and the exhaust pipe problem did I wonder, but I just thought it was quite a nice big footplate like the T5 Transporter has. I'm not convinced that would bother me. I loved the controls, the cabin, the display, the cargo mounts, the solid doors, the twin sunroofs. The LH rear door is pointless, and clearly you have to open both... don't care. I liked the wheels, and the tyres. I liked the fat sporty steering wheel in a 4x4. I though the road noise wasn't even noticable. I drove right up the arse of a Discovery Sport and shouted "how does this feel? Yeaaahhh!!!" before backing off, apologising and realising I was behaving like a BMW driver. I liked opening and closing the doors. Solid. I liked resting my arm on the door just like my beloved Defender. I just bloody liked it.

I would sum up my first hour in a test drive Grenadier as follows: if JRL had decided to continue with the real Defender, then this car is exactly how the XS would be built right now, today. Just enough luxury, and not too much tech. Radcliffe has hit the bullseye on that one. It's also what I would ideally take my Defender to - if I was happy to spend £20k on mods and garage time.

So... do I buy one?

First: I'm letting the schoolboy hormonal rush subside, as we all know daft things are done when wood's around. Else I might walk straight in and spend the wife's pension pot on a Fieldmaster with all the extras.
Second: I'm going to read more about the models, the options and the taxation mess as I've never bought a new vehicle. Maybe a used one is the way to go? There's plenty around... more on that later.
Third: I would like another test drive, and see if it gives me hot flushes again. If it does, then that kind of seals it.

A question that's asked a lot: why are there so many used with 2,000 - 5,000 miles on them? The prices are such that these can't be people "flipping" them as was predicted. I saw a comment from mikemike39 about how it would be possible if you've bought one early at a fixed price, but after dealer profit margin I can't see them having made much money? Demand in the UK has not materialise as it has elsewhere, or as Ineos anticipated.

So that makes me wonder: is this just people who've wanted to be "on-trend" and pose around in this thing, then realised it's not the same as their X7 or Q6 or whatever? Are they tall people who can't take the driving position? Are their wives nagging them (sorry, sexist) because the rear door's no good for shopping? Are the kids crying because there's no rear screens like there was in the Galaxy to watch Tinkywanks on? Did they just get bored and realise they'd overspent on a vanity project.

Or, are they scaring people with false alarms, incomplete service network, not yet good enough service levels, and those buyers are just bottling it?

If you like, please give me some advice. Is it normal to get so aroused in a 4x4? Should I buy one? Should I buy used? Why are so many being sold with low miles, and are they potentially broken?

I don't know what to do, but I think I really want one.

Thanks for any and all thoughts, comments and feedback. Cheer the noo. Jock

Hi BigJock2024,
I think you are going though many of the emotions that many of us have gone through at one time or another. There is something truly iconic about the Grenadier that captures every one of us.

Every single encounter I have had with one has continued to reinforce my decision to purchase one. I heard about the Grenadier story 3 months after purchasing new New 2020 Defender, (which by the way is the best vehicle I have ever owned by a factor of 2 or more).

Like everyone, I said "That's What They Should Have Done". It had me at Hello. It had me on my first encounter seeing one in person and driving a prototype on an off-road park test drive. It had me on my first on-road test drive. It had me when I visited it after it came into port.

If you read and stay involved with the Forum you will hear for the most part a very balanced point of view from everyone relating their experiences. Most have been very positive. Some have been negative and some has received lemons or lemon service.

Overall, I am going in with realistic expectations, however can't help smiling just thinking about taking delivery very very soon.
DaBull

 

[Voader - Oudersopzwier]

just people who've wanted to be "on-trend" and pose around in this thing, then realised it's not the same as their X7 or Q6

I think the reason is exactly as you say it. I love my Grenadier, I also love my old Defender. But we told to each other (my wife and I) when visiting the dealer and made a test drive "Lets buy us selfs another tractor" A lot of people are seeing the Grenadier as a very cool SUV.
It is very cool, ....but it ain't a SUV. Or at least not the SUV that they have in their minds.

 

[BigJock2024]

Hi BigJock2024,
I think you are going though many of the emotions that many of us have gone through at one time or another. There is something truly iconic about the Grenadier that captures every one of us.

Every single encounter I have had with one has continued to reinforce my decision to purchase one. I heard about the Grenadier story 3 months after purchasing new New 2020 Defender, (which by the way is the best vehicle I have ever owned by a factor of 2 or more).

Like everyone, I said "That's What They Should Have Done". It had me at Hello. It had me on my first encounter seeing one in person and driving a prototype on an off-road park test drive. It had me on my first on-road test drive. It had me when I visited it after it came into port.

If you read and stay involved with the Forum you will hear for the most part a very balanced point of view from everyone relating their experiences. Most have been very positive. Some have been negative and some has received lemons or lemon service.

Overall, I am going in with realistic expectations, however can't help smiling just thinking about taking delivery very very soon.
DaBull

Thanks for that. I haven't seriously considered the new Defender because it just has so much tech that I would be terrified of it. I've only just got to trusting my L405 V6 Vogue, which is a 2018 plate which now has 60,000 fault-free miles.

My friend who is a long-standing independent LR mechanic says he is seeing a lot of issues. No-one he knows is taking them off-road, in contrast to many, many Range Rover and Disco owners. Also, the investment in diagnostic kit and training he needs to make to be able to repair and service them can't be justified as most owners are sticking with JLR for servicing. However, as you've testified, it seems if they run well they are seriously capable and seriously comfortable.

He almost made the point that most Defender failures he's encountered involve a dead vehicle, which requires collection, as the car will not allow you to continue driving. Of all the false alarm reports I've heard about the Grenadier, none have actually stopped the vehicle - it's always been drivable: that's a big deal!

My question would be: can you compare the new Defender to the Grenadier, or are they just simply different vehicles? If I am of the mind set that the new Defender is just too luxurious, and just too complex, then does that make the Grenadier the right choice? I haven't test driven a new Defender, do you think if I did I would be converted, or would it be too close to my L405 to cause hot flushes?

I will try to stay with the forums; you are right of course that many just use them as a punchbag and few post just to say "another trouble-free week completed".

Do you still have the Defender? If not, can you tell me more about the experience of switching to the Grenadier? And what do you think about buying new in May 2024 versus picking up a September 2023 model with 2,500 miles on it for 15-20k less? I'm lucky that both are within my budget.

Thanks and Cheers,
Jock

 

[BigJock2024]

Thanks for that.
So if I said that I sold my beloved Defender (in my Avatar) because it was 1) too noisy for my wife with it's straight through stainless pipe which gave a lovely throaty growl, 2) was too hard for her delicate bahooky, 3) was too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer, 4) the list of improvements I wanted to make - electrics, USB, lamps, grab handles, cargo space, dashboard upgrade, auto conversion - was just too long and expensive, and 5) she simply couldn't drive it because the AT2 Grabbers and the power steering were just too much... then would the Grenadier mitigate some of that stuff? She still won't drive it, but she didn't like getting bounced around and deafened as I cut about the place like Mad Max.

 

[DaBull]

Thanks for that. I haven't seriously considered the new Defender because it just has so much tech that I would be terrified of it. I've only just got to trusting my L405 V6 Vogue, which is a 2018 plate which now has 60,000 fault-free miles.

My friend who is a long-standing independent LR mechanic says he is seeing a lot of issues. No-one he knows is taking them off-road, in contrast to many, many Range Rover and Disco owners. Also, the investment in diagnostic kit and training he needs to make to be able to repair and service them can't be justified as most owners are sticking with JLR for servicing. However, as you've testified, it seems if they run well they are seriously capable and seriously comfortable.

He almost made the point that most Defender failures he's encountered involve a dead vehicle, which requires collection, as the car will not allow you to continue driving. Of all the false alarm reports I've heard about the Grenadier, none have actually stopped the vehicle - it's always been drivable: that's a big deal!

My question would be: can you compare the new Defender to the Grenadier, or are they just simply different vehicles? If I am of the mind set that the new Defender is just too luxurious, and just too complex, then does that make the Grenadier the right choice? I haven't test driven a new Defender, do you think if I did I would be converted, or would it be too close to my L405 to cause hot flushes?

I will try to stay with the forums; you are right of course that many just use them as a punchbag and few post just to say "another trouble-free week completed".

Do you still have the Defender? If not, can you tell me more about the experience of switching to the Grenadier? And what do you think about buying new in May 2024 versus picking up a September 2023 model with 2,500 miles on it for 15-20k less? I'm lucky that both are within my budget.

Thanks and Cheers,
Jock

HI BigJock2024, I am picking up my New Grenadier today at Rusnak Ineos Pasadena. I plan on keeping my New Defender for approximately 1 month as I need time to get a few items done to the Grenadier and time to get the New Defender detailed for sale. Being able to have both vehicles in my driveway for a month, will allow me to jump from one to the other, which will give me an even better perspective of the differences, which I hope to post eventually.
I already know the New Defender is an incredible vehicle. I also know the New Grenadier is an incredible vehicle too. DaBull

 

[BigJock2024]

HI BigJock2024, I am picking up my New Grenadier today at Rusnak Ineos Pasadena. I plan on keeping my New Defender for approximately 1 month as I need time to get a few items done to the Grenadier and time to get the New Defender detailed for sale. Being able to have both vehicles in my driveway for a month, will allow me to jump from one to the other, which will give me an even better perspective of the differences, which I hope to post eventually.
I already know the New Defender is an incredible vehicle. I also know the New Grenadier is an incredible vehicle too. DaBull

It would be really good if you can post your comparisons here, that would be really interesting to hear... what you think stepping from one into the other. Hope you have the time to do this!
Jock

 

[2wheelfish]

HI BigJock2024, I am picking up my New Grenadier today at Rusnak Ineos Pasadena. I plan on keeping my New Defender for approximately 1 month as I need time to get a few items done to the Grenadier and time to get the New Defender detailed for sale. Being able to have both vehicles in my driveway for a month, will allow me to jump from one to the other, which will give me an even better perspective of the differences, which I hope to post eventually.
I already know the New Defender is an incredible vehicle. I also know the New Grenadier is an incredible vehicle too. DaBull

Congratulations DaBull! Would love to see that comparison. I kinda have my own thoughts, but only from short drives, insight from an owners perspective would be good info. I absolutely love the Gren, but the Defender is always talking to me as technically it probably satisfies more of my use needs.

 

[Trialmaster]

I am one of those that rarely go off road, I would like to but have no reason.

I have driven 3200 miles of absolutely trouble free miles. However, as this is an early car, I did suffer from a lot of false warnings prior to the software update. I really can't fault the vehicle to be honest.

However, I am unsure if it's for me, for example I have never had the circumstance to engage the centre diff lock, let alone rear and front. Consequently, I may be looking to sell on and buy something more luxurious.

 

[Jeremy996]

I have an early build Grenadier, (a basic utility with some options), and have now done just under 17,000 miles. The vast majority were road miles, I might have done 20 on sand and gloopy mud. Other than the original software crying wolf, some dodgy door seals and water in the footwell and sills, it has been turnkey reliable, (that will curse it!)

If you want a road car that can drive off road once in a blue moon, buy a new Defender; if you want a utility vehicle for off road that is happy enough on road, buy a Grenadier. As a replacement for my '89 LR110CSW and '91 LR90, the Grenadier has been better than I expected. My wife is happy to come with me on a road trip, whereas before I had to put up with a lot of cracks about getting out and pushing; there has been a lot of that over 18 years and more than 200,000 miles.

 

[Carolinaride]

Hello everyone, this is my first post, so a bit of an introduction before the questions!

I bought my first Land Rover around 20 years ago, and it was an '88 3.5 EFI classic with a few problems which I sorted. I've since had 5 of those lovelies in total over the years doing plenty of club off-roading. I also had a P38 which I try to forget about and still feel guilty for auctioning it off with slipped liners...
I've had 3 Discoveries (Mks 2,3 and 4) and a Defender (chipped TD5 at 186bhp that I took to190,000 miles) plus a V8 super-charged L322 and my current bus is a V6 L405. Only the Defender and Discos were diesel, the rest all petrol which I strongly prefer, and it helps that my mileage is low.
I love my current L405 to bits... it's just the nuts. How LR have managed to retain the spirit of the Range Rover while getting it to the level of luxury they have amazes me.
Touching vast amounts of wood, I've been remarkably lucky. The ONLY LR that has ever let me down was the P38, as the air suspension dumped it's guts at the side of the M6 requiring a 160 mile recovery... I fitted OME coils and shocks and never looked back.. until it started drinking coolant. Actually the turbo blew on the Defender, but that was as I got home, so I limped into the driveway and replaced it in-situ with a recon from London Turbos. No bother at all, and only cost me 2 broken knuckles and a right finger.

Anyhoo.... I test drove a Fieldmaster at the weekend. Well. I have to say I was gripped by it. I mean, REALLY gripped by it. Very unusual - I like my cars, trucks and bikes, but I haven't been so taken by something so much for a long, long time. I ripped around a few roundabouts, and bounced it up a couple of quite nasty back lanes. I was astonished at the feeling of total and utter solidity. It took me around 5 minutes to get used to the steering, and since I'm such a short-arse I didn't really notice "the lump". Only when the demo guy told me about it and the exhaust pipe problem did I wonder, but I just thought it was quite a nice big footplate like the T5 Transporter has. I'm not convinced that would bother me. I loved the controls, the cabin, the display, the cargo mounts, the solid doors, the twin sunroofs. The LH rear door is pointless, and clearly you have to open both... don't care. I liked the wheels, and the tyres. I liked the fat sporty steering wheel in a 4x4. I though the road noise wasn't even noticable. I drove right up the arse of a Discovery Sport and shouted "how does this feel? Yeaaahhh!!!" before backing off, apologising and realising I was behaving like a BMW driver. I liked opening and closing the doors. Solid. I liked resting my arm on the door just like my beloved Defender. I just bloody liked it.

I would sum up my first hour in a test drive Grenadier as follows: if JRL had decided to continue with the real Defender, then this car is exactly how the XS would be built right now, today. Just enough luxury, and not too much tech. Radcliffe has hit the bullseye on that one. It's also what I would ideally take my Defender to - if I was happy to spend £20k on mods and garage time.

So... do I buy one?

First: I'm letting the schoolboy hormonal rush subside, as we all know daft things are done when wood's around. Else I might walk straight in and spend the wife's pension pot on a Fieldmaster with all the extras.
Second: I'm going to read more about the models, the options and the taxation mess as I've never bought a new vehicle. Maybe a used one is the way to go? There's plenty around... more on that later.
Third: I would like another test drive, and see if it gives me hot flushes again. If it does, then that kind of seals it.

A question that's asked a lot: why are there so many used with 2,000 - 5,000 miles on them? The prices are such that these can't be people "flipping" them as was predicted. I saw a comment from mikemike39 about how it would be possible if you've bought one early at a fixed price, but after dealer profit margin I can't see them having made much money? Demand in the UK has not materialise as it has elsewhere, or as Ineos anticipated.

So that makes me wonder: is this just people who've wanted to be "on-trend" and pose around in this thing, then realised it's not the same as their X7 or Q6 or whatever? Are they tall people who can't take the driving position? Are their wives nagging them (sorry, sexist) because the rear door's no good for shopping? Are the kids crying because there's no rear screens like there was in the Galaxy to watch Tinkywanks on? Did they just get bored and realise they'd overspent on a vanity project.

Or, are they scaring people with false alarms, incomplete service network, not yet good enough service levels, and those buyers are just bottling it?

If you like, please give me some advice. Is it normal to get so aroused in a 4x4? Should I buy one? Should I buy used? Why are so many being sold with low miles, and are they potentially broken?

I don't know what to do, but I think I really want one.

Thanks for any and all thoughts, comments and feedback. Cheer the noo. Jock

All i can say is i spent the last few years back and forth to England and your post reminds me how much i miss the English.

As for the vehicle, i have driven it way too many times including London and Dublin and cannot wait to receive mine in a few weeks. Maybe i can tell you more then. I am sure it will have its “personality” but i think those that bought it for the “purpose built” are going to be happy and those that want the norm are not.

 

[BigJock2024]

All i can say is i spent the last few years back and forth to England and your post reminds me how much i miss the English.

Well I thought from my user name you might have worked out I'm not English...

 

[Tazzieman]

Just buy one mate. Get the safari windows, you won't regret it.
From my userbname you'll have worked out I'm not English. Well , I do have dual citizenship - and was born there - but after 54 years in this prison...

 

[BigJock2024]

Just buy one mate. Get the safari windows, you won't regret it.
From my userbname you'll have worked out I'm not English. Well , I do have dual citizenship - and was born there - but after 54 years in this prison...

"Just buy one mate"...

That's exactly what I would say to someone when I 100% know it's exactly what they want.
Yes safari windows... no idea if they're useful, but cool as, for sure.
Thanks mate, I gotta go do some figures...

 

[Tazzieman]

"Just buy one mate"...

That's exactly what I would say to someone when I 100% know it's exactly what they want.
Yes safari windows... no idea if they're useful, but cool as, for sure.
Thanks mate, I gotta go do some figures...

If you own one with safari windows then drive one without, you know your decision is correct
Do the man maths & if you have a woman looking over your shoulder, let her know my better 1/2 absolutely loves the Grenadier

 

[Eric]

"Just buy one mate"...

That's exactly what I would say to someone when I 100% know it's exactly what they want.
Yes safari windows... no idea if they're useful, but cool as, for sure.
Thanks mate, I gotta go do some figures...

Get the safari windows, never opened mine yet ( winter mode) but they sure do make the cabin, light, airy and appear bigger and spacious

 

[Coullabus]

"Just buy one mate"...

That's exactly what I would say to someone when I 100% know it's exactly what they want.
Yes safari windows... no idea if they're useful, but cool as, for sure.
Thanks mate, I gotta go do some figures...

I owned Defenders for 40+ years. Mrs C and I discussed the new Defender, spending mega quids on tarting up my 2008 XS station wagon. Or the expensive Grenadier. So we opted to spend the quids on the tarting up. Us pensioners are all poor according to young Mr Starmer after all. Waste of £16k.

We saw a Grenadier on a safari to the mainland. Hunted a secondhand one down to its subterranean den in Edinburgh. Test drove. The rest is history.

A friend now drives an excessively pampered 110, and we are loving life in a Fieldmaster

So to mis-quote m’learned colleague…… just buy the bloody thing!