Stuck at Cape York

[SeaMist]

I will have more to say, but INEOS and Budget seem to have done the right thing. With such a catastrophic failure, it takes time.

I had a modest failure remote with my new Stockman trailer. I paid to have it fixed and then the maker reimbursed the costs, promptly and without dramas (they stood behind their product - thank you Stockman). Failure was due to a shock absorber nut not being properly torqued. It was the first remote trip for the trailer and it failed early on. I even checked the trailer about 30 minutes before the failure. Nut came off, shock hits ground and is damaged, spring pops out. Trailer cannot be driven, but minimal damage otherwise.

I have fitted a sealed snorkel with airbox to my IG. The final factor which made me buy it, was seeing more than one INEOS on that Cape York trip go over the 800mm max wading depth across the river, Only for a short time, but that is enough for water to work its way into the motor and hydro lock it. You do not need much water in the airbox. Result new engine. That is one possible cause.

My mate who worked for years at 4X4 workshops in the Kimberley. He has seen quite a few cars in for repairs, which were suppose to have sealed snorkels, but poor installation meant water got in. The exact reason why I drove to Melbourne to have GrenX fit the sealed snorkel and not an agent.

When I saw a couple of cars go over the max wading depth, I thought then and there they were lucky not to hydro the motor. But it may have just taken a bit longer for the water to get to the motor. If that was the cause, still a big if.

It is BS they are not saying what is wrong with the motor, but you need a new motor. They know or have a very good idea of the cause.

I used to have a Defender but this engine failure at 20,000 with no acceptance of warranty by Ineos has really put me off buying one and I can tell you that I was determined to buy one soon. I doubt it was hydrolock, they were 20 minutes into a fresh drive. Loss of oil followed by a seizure is more like it. If Ineos know what caused the failure they should be saying. If the guy making the video says they haven’t been told I will guarantee they haven’t been told. This lack of warranty and secrecy about cause of failure has me feeling sick that that could happen to me if I bought one.

 

[Znarfgh]

I will have more to say, but INEOS and Budget seem to have done the right thing. With such a catastrophic failure, it takes time.

I had a modest failure remote with my new Stockman trailer. I paid to have it fixed and then the maker reimbursed the costs, promptly and without dramas (they stood behind their product - thank you Stockman). Failure was due to a shock absorber nut not being properly torqued. It was the first remote trip for the trailer and it failed early on. I even checked the trailer about 30 minutes before the failure. Nut came off, shock hits ground and is damaged, spring pops out. Trailer cannot be driven, but minimal damage otherwise.

I have fitted a sealed snorkel with airbox to my IG. The final factor which made me buy it, was seeing more than one INEOS on that Cape York trip go over the 800mm max wading depth across the river, Only for a short time, but that is enough for water to work its way into the motor and hydro lock it. You do not need much water in the airbox. Result new engine. That is one possible cause.

My mate who worked for years at 4X4 workshops in the Kimberley. He has seen quite a few cars in for repairs, which were suppose to have sealed snorkels, but poor installation meant water got in. The exact reason why I drove to Melbourne to have GrenX fit the sealed snorkel and not an agent.

When I saw a couple of cars go over the max wading depth, I thought then and there they were lucky not to hydro the motor. But it may have just taken a bit longer for the water to get to the motor. If that was the cause, still a big if.

It is BS they are not saying what is wrong with the motor, but you need a new motor. They know or have a very good idea of the cause.

Totally agree that IA should inform the customer as to what caused the engine failure.

I had an engine failure on my previous vehicle at 136K km and the vehicle was out of warranty. The dealership told me what the problem was, and the manufacturer supplied a new engine with no cost to me and even provided a loan car at their expense. I did not even have to call on Consumer Law, they did a warranty repair without any prompting. Good on Stellantis. Clearly, it was a known issue as there were several engines on the repairer's floor and there were no engines in the country at the time.

You have to wonder why neither IA nor the insurer disclosed what the actual problem was - are they hiding something?

 

[TheDocAUS]

Totally agree that IA should inform the customer as to what caused the engine failure.

I had an engine failure on my previous vehicle at 136K km and the vehicle was out of warranty. The dealership told me what the problem was, and the manufacturer supplied a new engine with no cost to me and even provided a loan car at their expense. I did not even have to call on Consumer Law, they did a warranty repair without any prompting. Good on Stellantis. Clearly, it was a known issue as there were several engines on the repairer's floor and there were no engines in the country at the time.

You have to wonder why neither IA nor the insurer disclosed what the actual problem was - are they hiding something?

I think IA and the insurer both know. Otherwise how did they agree the way forward?

2 years 10 months after my fatal car accident. I still do not officially know the cause (eg drunk driver, drugs, fell asleep or medical issue). They will not tell me. You nearly get killed on a public road and you get treated like a member of the mushroom club - kept in the dark and feed on BS. They do not even bother to feed me BS.

 

[MattA]

What the!!!
Full respect to Arthur !!!
Personally I would be furious and demanding what “ environmental “ meant
Was the air filter checked to see if water had gone into the air box?
Clutching at straws because if it was water and a hydro lock it would stop. In the river and wouldn’t spew out oil with warning lights

 

[Tazzieman]

People are really piling on in the YT comments. A major triggering for sure.
Anyway if you're rumbling over rocks/ rivers get underbody protection. Not hard to crack that plastic sump or oil line, dump your oil and kill the engine.

 

[MrMike]

In retrospect I would have contacted Justin Hocevar for comment before producing this video so you can get both sides of the story. Only fair and it may have been enough for him to release the information.

 

[bakepl]

Crikey, wtf....

People are really piling on in the YT comments. A major triggering for sure.
Anyway if you're rumbling over rocks/ rivers get underbody protection. Not hard to crack that plastic sump or oil line, dump your oil and kill the engine.

Yes, but we'll never know the cause it seems. WTF. As an owner I'm now concerned what this catastrophic failure could be so I could put in place some plan as a preventative or mitigating solution. How can any of us avoid similar if Arthur has not been advised of the cause. You'd think the owner of a $100000 vehicle would have some meat in the game and for those sitting on the fence I guess this helps to sort it. Crikey Ineos....

 

[MattA]

People are really piling on in the YT comments. A major triggering for sure.
Anyway if you're rumbling over rocks/ rivers get underbody protection. Not hard to crack that plastic sump or oil line, dump your oil and kill the engine.

It clearly states in the video he had a bash plate so they couldn’t see where the oil was coming from or any damage…

 

[Tazzieman]

It clearly states in the video he had a bash plate so they couldn’t see where the oil was coming from or any damage…

You could still trap a stone/branch during a river crossing.
Shit happens!

 

[MattA]

Not a good look from Ineos and will cost the company dearly IMO
Also very poor add for the Grenadier, 10 went on a trip that 1000’s of people do every year , 1 had a major engine failure another one had a transfer case issue and couldn’t lock it or use low range.
20% failure rate with relatively new cars ouch

 

[TheDocAUS]

What the!!!
Full respect to Arthur !!!
Personally I would be furious and demanding what “ environmental “ meant
Was the air filter checked to see if water had gone into the air box?
Clutching at straws because if it was water and a hydro lock it would stop. In the river and wouldn’t spew out oil with warning lights

A hydro locked motor can occur even if the engine does not stop, the video talks about the awful sound it was making. It depends on how much water and how much engine damage.

The known symptoms do not contradict a hydro locked motor, but that does not rule out something else. Which is why the owner should be told.

 

[Tazzieman]

A hydro locked motor can occur even if the engine does not stop, the video talks about the awful sound it was making. It depends on how much water and how much engine damage.

The known symptoms do not contradict a hydro locked motor, but that does not rule out something else. Which is why the owner should be told.

Arthur needs a fly on the wall.

 

[TheDocAUS]

Not a good look from Ineos and will cost the company dearly IMO
Also very poor add for the Grenadier, 10 went on a trip that 1000’s of people do every year , 1 had a major engine failure another one had a transfer case issue and couldn’t lock it or use low range.
20% failure rate with relatively new cars ouch

The year I was there, something like over 70 or 90 cars were damaged and had to be towed out. Lots of mishaps at Cape York lots, impacting all brands, many different models.

Lots of fights, divorces and ruined holidays.

Punsand Bay Camping Ground keeps the running total of woe and misery.

 

[TheDocAUS]

I feel sympathy for Arhtur as he tried to do the right thing, like going remote with a car club. Both Arthur and John do not seem to understand some of the risks of remote travel whether it be to Cape York, the Simpson Desert or The Kimberley.

I am experienced in going remote alone, in Australia, and I can tell you I take more safeguards than what they did.

You need to understand and address these risks:

• most road side assist policies limit free towing to 50km from the breakdown point, after that you must pay. So, I assumed INEOS Roadside assist would be the same. Roadside Assist is NOT a solution for all recoveries and mechanical problems;
• have arrangements for any remote recovery to cover for towing, car hire and accommodation. For the Patrol, I had coverage and once had to use it when the alternator went. I can add this cover to my INEOS Club4X4 policy any time during the year if I am going on a remote trip. Cape York, the Simpson Desert and The Kimberly are all well-known places for REALLY expensive recoveries including back to the State Capital (they can cost more than AUD10,000);
• understand that many car insurance policies only cover you on gazetted roads. Many Station tracks, remote tracks, river crossings, beaches, etc. are not gazetted roads. Driving off gazetted roads means you have no insurance cover. My specialist Club 4X4 policy covers me for offroad use and is not limited to gazetted roads;
• many insurance policies do not cover the cost of all the accessories you added. My Club4X4 Policy does and yes it costs more but also covers more;
• consider where your car will have to be recovered too when working out coverage. For example, VW Amarok’s (with ECU issues) commonly must be towed to Perth to be fixed, if they fail in The Kimberly. The same may apply to the IG and QM. The Toyota 70 series would have an advantage here, but the fancy new Toyotas would not fair much better than the Amarok or IG/QM;
• prep your car for water crossings, just ask Ronny;
• do not go over the max wading depth and be aware of the damage that really rough surfaces can do, like rocky tracks and river crossings. John Canny's videos show some Grenadiers going over the max wading depth and the river bottom is as rough as. The less traveled track is not much better and 10 owners choose not to do it, damage happens and sometimes it is catastrophic. Car damage is common in remote parts of Cape York (Punsand Bay Camping ground even keeps a running total of woe and misery each year - all car brands, all models);
• they choose to go the riskier track with deeper water crossings and sometimes you must pay the piper. Going remote means you must wear your Big Boys Pants;
• really remote trips should not be your first trip. You need to build up experience. Ronny Dahl has good videos on this, here and here. I did accredited 4x4 training (2.5 days). I spent 12 months going on trips before I went remote. Even then I built up my experience before I went really remote;
• I identified the main risks and mitigated them, but you must accept you cannot eliminate them. Otherwise do not go remote and enjoy something closer to civilisation; and
• take spares and have the Rok Dr Guide as well. One reason I harp on about spares kits and I want INEOS to do more for remote service.

These are hard lessons to learn after the event, but you should know them if you did proper preparation, sorry John.

Nothing in that video surprised me. I thought INEOS and Budget mostly did the right thing, Arthur and John have learnt some hard lessons of remote travel as well. However, I strongly believe the ”environmental factors” should be disclosed to the owner, maybe not public.

I also believe in gain without the pain. So, learn from this disaster and plan and prepare better for your next remote trip.

 

[Steve.B]

A hydro locked motor can occur even if the engine does not stop, the video talks about the awful sound it was making. It depends on how much water and how much engine damage.

The known symptoms do not contradict a hydro locked motor, but that does not rule out something else. Which is why the owner should be told.

It is doubtful that compression lock would cause a major oil leek unless it threw a rod, and if it threw a rod there would be plenty of evidence even to someone with no mechanical aptitude, and if it was caused by wading in excess of 800mm that would be owner neglect / abuse, and likely not covered by Ineos or insurance.
Chances are it was caused by a large stick or rock fracturing an oil line or similar, and the motor driven dry for a short while causing the catastrophic failure.
Don't blame the engine failure on Ineos, or the aftermarket bash plates, like safety glasses sometimes things get past and cause damage or irritation in the case of safety glasses.
I am impressed with Budget Direct insurance, they insure my Porsche Cayenne Turbo for well under half of the cost of the other quote's I received, my Ineos is insured with Shannons, I hope they are as good as Budget Direct.
The insurance company has probably instructed Ineos not to disclose any information regarding their investigation while the process is not complete, and why would Ineos rock the boat.
The glass half full perspective, as opposed to the previous multiple glass half empty perspectives.

 

[NQ94]

Had to laugh at the Ineos techs saying it was inconclusive for the engine failure that was pouring oil on the ground. It takes about 10 to 15 minutes at most by any reasonable tech to determine that an engine or transmission that is pouring oil out is fucked on the side of the road or in a workshop. Warranty and possibly insurance won't pay out for bad decisions by the operator. I have seen so many engine and mechanical failures from off road use or water crossings caused by the operator declined by the insurer and manufacturers warranty. Be a field tech and have to cop the this crap from the owner at the workshop or the breakdown and tell the driver how it is, it sucks, you cop a flogging. Cross deep water at your own risk because enviromental damage, your car aint a boat be aware of the consequenses.

 

[MrMike]

I feel sympathy for Arhtur as he tried to do all the right things, like going remote with a car club. Both Arthur and John do not seem to understand some of the risks of remote travel whether it be to Cape York, the Simpson Desert or The Kimberley.

I am experienced in going remote alone and I can tell you I take more safeguards than what they did.

You need to understand and address these risks:

• most road side assist policies limit free towing to 50km from the breakdown point, after that you must pay. So, I assumed INEOS Roadside assist would be the same. Roadside Assist is NOT a solution for all recoveries and mechanical problems;
• have arrangements for any remote recovery to cover for towing, car hire and accommodation. For the Patrol, I had coverage and once had to use it when the alternator went. I can add this cover to my INEOS Club4X4 policy any time during the year if I am going on a remote trip. Cape York, the Simpson Desert and The Kimberly are all well-known places for REALLY expensive recoveries including back to the State Capital (they can cost more than AUD10,000);
• understand that many car insurance policies only cover you on gazetted roads. Many Station tracks, remote tracks, river crossings, beaches, etc. are not gazetted roads. Driving off gazetted roads means you have no insurance cover. My specialist Club 4X4 policy covers me for offroad use and is not limited to gazetted roads;
• many insurance policies do not cover the cost of all the accessories you added. My Club4X4 Policy does and yes it costs more but also covers more risks;
• consider where your car will have to be recovered too when working out coverage. For example, VW Amarok’s (with ECU issues) commonly must be towed to Perth to be fixed, if they fail in The Kimberly. The same may apply to the IG and QM. The Toyota 70 series would have an advantage here, but the fancy new Toyotas would not fair much better than the Amarok or IG/QM;
• really remote trips should not be your first trip. You need to build up experience. Ronny Dahl has a good video on this. I did accredited 4x4 training (2.5 days). I spent 12 months going on trips before I went remote. Even then I built up my experience before I went really remote;
• I identified the main risks and mitigated them; and
• take spares and have the Rok Dr Guide as well. One reason I harp on about spares kits and want INEOS to do more for remote service.

These are hard lessons to learn after the event, but you should know them if you do proper preparation, sorry John.

Nothing in that video surprised me. I thought INEOS and Budget mostly did the right thing, Arthur and John have learnt some lessons of remote travel as well. However, I strongly believe the ”environmental factors” should be disclosed to the owner.

I also believe in gain without the pain. So, learn from this disaster and plan and prepare better for your next remote trip.

Couldn't agree more with your comments.
I honestly don't think any other brand would have done things differently.

I've been surprised by the level of service from the dealer in Western Australia, recently we had an owner break down in a reasonably remote spot and they picked them and the Grenadier up and took them to the nearest town and flew them back to Perth and transported their Grenadier to the dealer.

 

[landmannnn]

I feel sympathy for Arhtur as he tried to do the right thing, like going remote with a car club. Both Arthur and John do not seem to understand some of the risks of remote travel whether it be to Cape York, the Simpson Desert or The Kimberley.

I am experienced in going remote alone, in Australia, and I can tell you I take more safeguards than what they did.

You need to understand and address these risks:

• most road side assist policies limit free towing to 50km from the breakdown point, after that you must pay. So, I assumed INEOS Roadside assist would be the same. Roadside Assist is NOT a solution for all recoveries and mechanical problems;
• have arrangements for any remote recovery to cover for towing, car hire and accommodation. For the Patrol, I had coverage and once had to use it when the alternator went. I can add this cover to my INEOS Club4X4 policy any time during the year if I am going on a remote trip. Cape York, the Simpson Desert and The Kimberly are all well-known places for REALLY expensive recoveries including back to the State Capital (they can cost more than AUD10,000);
• understand that many car insurance policies only cover you on gazetted roads. Many Station tracks, remote tracks, river crossings, beaches, etc. are not gazetted roads. Driving off gazetted roads means you have no insurance cover. My specialist Club 4X4 policy covers me for offroad use and is not limited to gazetted roads;
• many insurance policies do not cover the cost of all the accessories you added. My Club4X4 Policy does and yes it costs more but also covers more;
• consider where your car will have to be recovered too when working out coverage. For example, VW Amarok’s (with ECU issues) commonly must be towed to Perth to be fixed, if they fail in The Kimberly. The same may apply to the IG and QM. The Toyota 70 series would have an advantage here, but the fancy new Toyotas would not fair much better than the Amarok or IG/QM;
• really remote trips should not be your first trip. You need to build up experience. Ronny Dahl has a good video on this. I did accredited 4x4 training (2.5 days). I spent 12 months going on trips before I went remote. Even then I built up my experience before I went really remote;
• I identified the main risks and mitigated them;
• they choose to go the riskier track with deeper water crossings and sometimes you must pay the piper. Going remote means you must wear your Big Boys Pants; and
• take spares and have the Rok Dr Guide as well. One reason I harp on about spares kits and I want INEOS to do more for remote service.

These are hard lessons to learn after the event, but you should know them if you did proper preparation, sorry John.

Nothing in that video surprised me. I thought INEOS and Budget mostly did the right thing, Arthur and John have learnt some hard lessons of remote travel as well. However, I strongly believe the ”environmental factors” should be disclosed to the owner.

I also believe in gain without the pain. So, learn from this disaster and plan and prepare better for your next remote trip.

Well said! Your post perfectly sums up the situation.

 

[Clark Kent]

I didn't make it through JC's video. I got bored around the 15 minute mark and jumped to the end only to discover there was no reason offered despite the clickbait title and description. I also lasted about 30 seconds reading the lynch party comments on YT, FB and here as well.
Arthur got his vehicle fixed and returned. Sure it might be informative to learn more about what happened but no one is entitled to know and I don't agree with the pile on.

On more positive news; there were no reports of driveshaft issues

 

[Tazzieman]

On more positive news; there were no reports of driveshaft issues

And nobody has piled on with "OMG all that synthetic oil in the pristine river systems"
Food for thought , if not fishes.