Steering and suspension geometry setting details

[Tazzieman]

Getting what?

AWo

Grenadier. I can't remember if you bought one.

 

[AWo]

Ah...see, we own 10 cars, 8 are intended for driving (https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/whats-everyone-driving.12410294/post-1333155798), two are for parts (whereas I give away #10 on Monday). I guess that is pretty enough.
In addition my heart belongs to the old Land Rover company, it's just love for these cars and generally I love old cars. I'm personally not interested in any new car except for the case of learning, comparison, knowing what is up to date, new technology etc. as my job requires to know about that, as well. Actually we have an offer to test the new Amarok (Ford Ranger derivative). So, whenever I can I jump into any 4x4 and try it out. Im 100% not interested in normal cars...

We asked ourself already what we could use the Grenadier for and I already explained here why a Grenadier would not suit our requirements. That leaves a Grenadier for company use (as also the familiy use case, two adults, three kids and a dog isn't required anymore. All other cars are mainly two seated in the meantime, except the Range Rover and the Toyota Land Cruiser BJ73). If at all we would consider a Grenadier we would definitely wait another year or more until all has settled and fixed. We're no early adaptors for our own use.

The price is also an issue. In my oppinion the Grenadier has not become what it should, also from the price perspective. From all my knowledge of that car I would have seen its price at end of the 40K or within the 50k range (where it was intended to be once. When I had the two prototypes with me in 2021, there was a 5 in the front of the intended price tag). My personel feeling is, that this would have been an appropriate price for what you get. Actually I'm not willing to spend so much money for a(ny) new car, especially with so many flaws. However, I'm afraid that this would also be the case with other new cars.

My personel hope is, that I will never need another car in my life and I can stick with what I have.

The youngest car we bought as a new car is our Isuzu D-MAX, absolutely no problems, a work horse, not expensive and good (but far from being fast or powerful), 4x4 drive and 1 t of load for 24k Euros.

If, at all, the next car will either be a Toyota Land Cruiser or a Ford Mustang, but that is the choice of my wife, as she loves both cars.

AWo

 

[Tazzieman]

Ah...see, we own 10 cars,

Well I have 8 ; before the Grenadier project I had no desire to buy anything built after 1995. (My wife buys new cars)
But the Grenadier was cool and different. I never thought I'd see the like of it in my lifetime. But here we are , all smiles , despite the price.

 

[AWo]

Well I have 8 ; before the Grenadier project I had no desire to buy anything built after 1995. (My wife buys new cars)
But the Grenadier was cool and different. I never thought I'd see the like of it in my lifetime. But here we are , all smiles , despite the price.

Yeahh, good engines stopped beeing availabe after the 1990ies. The 1990ies was the best decade for cars, i.m.h.o.

For me (and my wife) a car must capture the heart or have a use case. The Grenadier doesn't do neither of that to me. As I said, I was aflame when I heard about the Grenadier for the first time in 2016 and what the plan was, what the outcome should be. Even in 2017 and 2018 I still was very excited. But I was sobered as the project continued. I was involved in detail discussions about the Grenadier where I saw piece by piece that it moved away from the intended plan and (how shall I put it?) some things were...exaggerated..?! Is that the right word? That it has become (as A.P.S.W. also claimed) the realization of the idea of a single man. Accepting more input from the "field" may have led to another result. But, it is not on me to judge it for others, just for myself and I do not pay the show.

However, I'm happy for every happy owner. That's how it should be, right? My claim is "4x4 United", but I do not look onto the Grenadier through rose-tinted-glasses nor I do that for my cars. They always have the one or the other problem and it is ok for me. If possible I take care about that on my own, if I can. I don't know, maybe that changes in ten years and I look jealous to the Grenadier owners still going strong with their vehicles while I'm sitting in front of my aged British crap...who knows....

AWo

 

[Tazzieman]

I'm always happy to chat about the many design and operational/maintenance faults of my 40+ year old Porsches.
Yet they were well bolted together and we remain friends who have plenty of fun!
As long as the bones are strong I can forgive other problems. And nowadays the internet provides help and new ideas.
The Ineos is the least contemporary 4x4 I could find , if that makes sense. As an "emerging elder", that appeals to me.
Ask me in 10 years ; I may be divorced and blaming the vehicle after a $250,000 desert rescue operation of me and my angry wife!

 

[AWo]

Call Sahara Assistenz, Douz, Tunisia, they'll charge about 3000 to 5000 Euros.

It was a pleasure to me to save you marriage.

BTW: Porsche is special, yessssss......

AWo

 

[Eric]

If, at all, the next car will either be a Toyota Land Cruiser or a Ford Mustang, but that is the choice of my wife, as she loves both cars.

Classic Boss Mustang 429,

 

[Tazzieman]

Call Sahara Assistenz, Douz, Tunisia, they'll charge about 3000 to 5000 Euros.

Do they serve outback Australia?

 

[AWo]

Ok, 250,00$....

AWo

 

[Jean Mercier]

Call Sahara Assistenz, Douz, Tunisia, they'll charge about 3000 to 5000 Euros.

It was a pleasure to me to save you marriage.

BTW: Porsche is special, yessssss......

AWo

I lived 3.5 years in Tunisia a long time ago, have been in Douz several times.

Tunisian joke: "What's the name of the city after Douz?"

Before giving the answer, as a former colony ("protectorat", what's in a word?) of France, most people speak, besides Tunisian Arabic, also French.

Answer: "Treize"

Explanation: put the words Douze and Treize in Google translate from French to any other language, and you will understand

 

[CORE Ineos]

I have the info!!
View attachment 7830023

we really need access to information like this, do you have a work around for someone like myself to be able to get shop information on these rigs?

Thanks!

 

[abbeyroad]

Question: Does the IG come with caster adjustments? If so, any pics showing where or how?

Another kind member sourced this somewhere, but the toe values are not the same as the one shared in this thread.

I just had it aligned with 0 toe and it drives worse than before which isn't a surprise, but surprised to see a source that lists 0 toe as spec.

Back to the alignment shop I go as it came with some negative toe from factory.

 

[spyder6255]

Owl calls for 2 degrees. Has anyone else done this? If so how easy is it.. thanks

 

[Dokatd]

Question: Does the IG come with caster adjustments? If so, any pics showing where or how?

Another kind member sourced this somewhere, but the toe values are not the same as the one shared in this thread.

I just had it aligned with 0 toe and it drives worse than before which isn't a surprise, but surprised to see a source that lists 0 toe as spec.

Back to the alignment shop I go as it came with some negative toe from factory.

First, can you elaborate on what you are feeling going from negative to neutral toe. I'm considering a touch of positive toe.

Second, the caster adjustment is done with the lower arms. There are adjustment cams at the frame side. It's a very typical setup.

 

[Dokatd]

Owl calls for 2 degrees. Has anyone else done this? If so how easy is it.. thanks

I'm hearing people pushing 3°. Honestly the more the better. But that is at the sacrifice of the drive shaft CV angle at the transfer case. 2.5-3° should be plenty if all else if proper. I believe the max limit from Ineos is 2.7° but I could be wrong.

 

[spyder6255]

anyone got a video showing how to adjust hte bolt for us rookies is it just as simple as tightening it down to max or more precise which means bring to a trusted tire shop

 

[abbeyroad]

First, can you elaborate on what you are feeling going from negative to neutral toe. I'm considering a touch of positive toe.

Second, the caster adjustment is done with the lower arms. There are adjustment cams at the frame side. It's a very typical setup.

With 0 toe, there was a lot more play in the center of the wheel at all speeds. At .16-.17 positive front axle toe (in spec), the truck drives with less micro steering input required at all speeds going straight.

It's just an overall tighter, more car like than truck like steering experience as INEOS intended within reason.

Thanks for the caster info mi amigo. Pics would be very helpful.

 

[Dokatd]

anyone got a video showing how to adjust hte bolt for us rookies is it just as simple as tightening it down to max or more precise which means bring to a trusted tire shop

It's a very easy process and the bolts have a torque spec. But, it does kinda require knowing what you are doing and an accurate angle gauge to actually set the caster to a specific setting. That said with the Grenadier you can set it to max and be confident it's set pretty much where you want it.

If you want to learn how to do it yourself which I am a proponent of then research Alignment Cam bolts. The process is easy. Loosen the bolt itself then rotate the cam to where you want it then retighten. You are trying to make the lower arms as "long" as possible. Meaning you adjust the cams so that the lower arms move forward as much as the Grenadiers setup will allow. At that point tighten the dickens out of the bolt and go. I don't have the torque spec on me, but I am sure someone here will chime in.

 

[C-Mack]

anyone got a video showing how to adjust hte bolt for us rookies is it just as simple as tightening it down to max or more precise which means bring to a trusted tire shop

You can adjust the caster eccentric bolts yourself visually but wouldn’t recommend it. There are enough tolerance differences at the attachment points, bushings, eccentric bolts themselves, etc… even if you got them visually adjusted the same you’d still be off slightly side to side. The vehicle really needs to be setup on an alignment rack so you can watch the changes being made “live” and set to the correct nominal specifications.