Some clarifications concerning second seat row, Utility vs.Station Wagon

[emax]

But you should take some assistance from somebody with some experience. Cutting around in the frame is not the easiest exercise, and the bad thing is that a mistake might be very visible.

• And take care of (hidden?) cables ...
• To protect the paint, apply some gaffer tape on which the saw can slide.
• And the saw blade should of course be as fine as possible and should be unused.

It looks so easy on youtube (and it basically is), but believe me: every amateur is sweating a lot until it's done.

 

[globalgregors]

My attempt at trying to visualise

Oh, nice job @DCPU. Should be able to wedge a water tank in that space.

 

[Deepblue]

@globalgregors Nice picture. Is this a digital rendering or a tank available for sale off the shelve? Would you have a link? Thx

 

[globalgregors]

Link is in the text, else https://www.frontrunneroutfitters.com/en/au/front-runner-upright-water-tank-flat.html

 

[Michael H.]

Oh, nice job @DCPU. Should be able to wedge a water tank in that space.

For Australia, there is only one 5-seat variant, the station wagon.

 

[globalgregors]

@Michael H. check out your order… model vs version. Regardless you’ll see elsewhere on the Forum that other members have established that the rear seat can be moved between the two locations shown in DCPU’s pics of the 5-seater above.

Basically if you have the half-height barrier installed, and the rear seat therefore installed in the forward of the two mounting locations, there appears to be a gap which approaches the ~65mm required for the Frontrunner off-the-shelf upright tank.

Not sure about the available vertical space, horizontal should be all good, I think the cabin exceeds 1400mm at the point in question… will need to access a production vehicle or digital model to confirm.

 

[Michael H.]

@Michael H. check out your order… model vs version. Regardless you’ll see elsewhere on the Forum that other members have established that the rear seat can be moved between the two locations shown in DCPU’s pics of the 5-seater above.

Basically if you have the half-height barrier installed, and the rear seat therefore installed in the forward of the two mounting locations, there appears to be a gap which approaches the ~65mm required for the Frontrunner off-the-shelf upright tank.

Not sure about the available vertical space, horizontal should be all good, I think the cabin exceeds 1400mm at the point in question… will need to access a production vehicle or digital model to confirm.

That may well be the case. I just wasn’t sure that you realised the 5-seat Utility Wagon was not offered in Australia. My order is for a 2-seat Utility Wagon.

 

[globalgregors]

Oh, I see. Yes - I ordered the 5-seat Trialmaster with a barrier and solid side panels with a view to creating a more secure load area for South America etc. I’m sure at some point though those rear seats will come out and we’ll drop on the inevitable Alu-Cab pop top.

 

[emax]

@Michael H.Regardless you’ll see elsewhere on the Forum that other members have established that the rear seat can be moved between the two locations shown in DCPU’s pics of the 5-seater above.

Be aware that it was said recently, that the rear mounting holes for the back seats might be welded over in the Utility versions - maybe as a "stimulus" to buy the more expensive "Edition" versions.

Maybe you can grind down the weldings spots then, but nobody knows whether there will be a thread below ...

 

[globalgregors]

Oh, I hadn’t seen that @emax, that’s a bit of a pain. I’m considering removing the 40 of the 60:40 rear seat to install a fridge in that location, pending the feasibility of such given the battery box etc.

 

[emax]

I have updated the first posting accordingly.

 

[emax]

My thoughts about this if they really weld over the rear mounting holes:

1. One can grind down the weldings spots carefully. If there is a thread below, no problem at all.
2. If there isn't one, there is perhaps the option to drill extra holes into the rear seats foot rest to achieve the rear mounting position. We do currently however not know, whether the foot rest has kind of a rail below on which it stands and where we could drill extra holes.
3. Another option is to produce an extra rail which can be bolted to the original holes on the chassis and on which one can weld nuts at the 'right' position. The rear seat would then however be raised by the material thickness of the rail.
4. Another option is, after grinding off the welding spots without finding threads below, one could cut threads themselves. If the threads are bored out, a helicoil solution might work, if (!) a sufficient strength can be achieved (as far as I had heard, there are 16! bolts which hold the seat). If I would do this, I would take a vacuum cleaner or a magnet and try to remove the chips as they are an evil source of rust. Or if you can't get to the chips, just spray a lot of wax over them or do both.
5. The last resort is to cut off the foot rest of the rear seat and to modify it or weld a new DYI version to the seat.

I guess that Ineos does this for either pushing the customers to their "Edition" station wagons or to be safe when it come to N1 registration questions.

In any case, if they are smart and fair, they should leave kind of a hidden option for DIYs to correct this 'flaw'.

I hope you read it, INEOS.

 

[emax]

The rails which you suggest are a great solution as well.

If somebody is a metall-worker it will take him not more than two hours to create something like below, including some chamfering,grinding and painting. (simplified drawing, just a suggestion). But you're right, the rails above are really good.

 

[emax]

> the obvious option

I must admit that I really missed that. However, as coming from mechanical engineering, it's so to say simply in my genes to "enigneer" something. The above rendering is however just a concept - nothing "engineered".

Angled iron is just an idea for enhanced stability. And of course the sharp corners should be rounded off ...

 

[Jean Mercier]

I don't know if this is the best thread to post this picture, but nice, when you fold the second row, you still have those rings for fixing stuff in the cargo part! (see the lower part of the picture).

 

[Tom D]

When I visited the dealer last week I moved the drivers seat back to my preferred driving position in the PTO commercial that they have. I then sat in the back. To be honest the knee room was ok. (I’m about 6’) the issue is more the steep angle of the backrest. That makes it a little uncomfortable, fine for the kids or short journeys, but otherwise a bit Ryanair.. I measured the mounting points for the seat back rests, they are approx 120mm further back in the Belstaff position. So whilst the seat base moves back 70mm the back moves back almost double. This will make them a lot more comfortable.
This gave me an idea, given that the seat back attaches to the sides of the car using a metal bracket, the seat base could be left where it was whilst a different bracket could be used to allow the seats to be reclined more. This would give the same floor space as before but with a more comfortable seating position….

Just a thought…

 

[ECrider]

When I visited the dealer last week I moved the drivers seat back to my preferred driving position in the PTO commercial that they have. I then sat in the back. To be honest the knee room was ok. (I’m about 6’) the issue is more the steep angle of the backrest. That makes it a little uncomfortable, fine for the kids or short journeys, but otherwise a bit Ryanair.. I measured the mounting points for the seat back rests, they are approx 120mm further back in the Belstaff position. So whilst the seat base moves back 70mm the back moves back almost double. This will make them a lot more comfortable.
This gave me an idea, given that the seat back attaches to the sides of the car using a metal bracket, the seat base could be left where it was whilst a different bracket could be used to allow the seats to be reclined more. This would give the same floor space as before but with a more comfortable seating position….

Just a thought…

that's an interesting idea

 

[Ever Pragmatic]

When I visited the dealer last week I moved the drivers seat back to my preferred driving position in the PTO commercial that they have. I then sat in the back. To be honest the knee room was ok. (I’m about 6’) the issue is more the steep angle of the backrest. That makes it a little uncomfortable, fine for the kids or short journeys, but otherwise a bit Ryanair.. I measured the mounting points for the seat back rests, they are approx 120mm further back in the Belstaff position. So whilst the seat base moves back 70mm the back moves back almost double. This will make them a lot more comfortable.
This gave me an idea, given that the seat back attaches to the sides of the car using a metal bracket, the seat base could be left where it was whilst a different bracket could be used to allow the seats to be reclined more. This would give the same floor space as before but with a more comfortable seating position….

Just a thought…

That’s a great idea. Better still, devise a mechanism that allows your to change the rake according to passengers or load space.

 

[ECrider]

That’s a great idea. Better still, devise a mechanism that allows your to change the rake according to passengers or load space.

another good idea

 

[AnD3rew]

This sounds a bit like you haven't done many DIY projects yet?

No problem: You take a Jig-saw and cut out the panels. Then you fit a gullwing-window.
Prerequisite: There must be an after market offer of such a window first. But this is very likely only a matter of time.

After that, you can measure what to cut out.

The rest is business as usual. You can DIY or ask a camper-workshop to do this for you. It's all in all a very common procedure in the overlander scene. There are tons of video examples on youtube, here is a short one:

https://youtu.be/bWO3ZKwxEpc?t=40

Would be interesting to know if the solid panel is actually part of the frame or welded in, or if it mounted the same way a glas window panel is, you would think from a manufacturing efficiency perspective the latter makes more sense. In which case you wouldn’t even need a jigsaw. Would be a very simple job to remove.