Owl Bull Bar

[Tazzieman]

That's a concerning result for a low speed impact.
The Owl bar has a 3mm steel thickness.
ARB are generally 2.6mm.
I presume the steel composition is the same.
I don't know what conclusion to draw, except heavier isn't necessarily better.
IMO humans in heavy cars are a bigger risk to my car's front end than animals, whether they be bulls, kangaroos, deer or sheep.

 

[Itsdchz]

I've seen the pictures of the crash our member went through.
What surprises me is just how much the bull bar bet itself into the sheet metal of the Grenadier. The pics of the Tesla, which is well worth posting show relatively minor damage whereas the bull bar seems to have not absorbed much/any of the incoming forces.

 

[carlg007]

From my observation after looking at the photos of the crash to me it is evident that the Grenadier front bumper is garbage! I remember the guy who had the incedent in Baha about a year ago when someone backed into his bumper and messed up the cooling system and caused all kinds of problems (only the corner of the bumper was bent). The car is advertised as having steel bumpers but and in my opinion are not built for purpose and they do not hold up in real world situations, I think they should have built them stronger especially as they integrate important cooling features that are vital!
I was considering a bull bar and have looked at several designs but I think it would be best to look for a real bumper that can withstand a 5 mph crash!

 

[CrazyOldMan]

From my observation after looking at the photos of the crash to me it is evident that the Grenadier front bumper is garbage! I remember the guy who had the incedent in Baha about a year ago when someone backed into his bumper and messed up the cooling system and caused all kinds of problems (only the corner of the bumper was bent). The car is advertised as having steel bumpers but and in my opinion are not built for purpose and they do not hold up in real world situations, I think they should have built them stronger especially as they integrate important cooling features that are vital!
I was considering a bull bar and have looked at several designs but I think it would be best to look for a real bumper that can withstand a 5 mph crash!

Definitely over the tips of my skis - but is the issue the bumper, or rather the mounts and crumple zones behind it (which are probably required for pedestrian safety, especially given the upright front line)? So then to @Zimm ‘s point, that means the “bull bar” isn’t really going to provide any body protection - better to think of it just as a brush guard. Or maybe just do a nose wrap and call it a day? I genuinely don’t know whether it provides any functional benefit, or is mostly just about appearances? I mean that as a real question - not rhetorically. I don’t know. In fact, it MIGHT actually cause more damage in a light front collision - which might have been more localized WITHOUT the bull bar.

 

[carlg007]

Definitely over the tips of my skis - but is the issue the bumper, or rather the mounts and crumple zones behind it (which are probably required for pedestrian safety, especially given the upright front line)? So then to @Zimm ‘s point, that means the “bull bar” isn’t really going to provide any body protection - better to think of it just as a brush guard. Or maybe just do a nose wrap and call it a day? I genuinely don’t know whether it provides any functional benefit, or is mostly just about appearances? I mean that as a real question - not rhetorically. I don’t know. In fact, it MIGHT actually cause more damage in a light front collision - which might have been more localized WITHOUT the bull bar.

You make some very good points! I do think that the BULL bar is really only a light brush guard and to think that it serves as any real protection is silly after seeing the results of a low speed crash. As far as crumple zones built into the bumper that is understandable considering the regulations but after seeing what could happen with the cooling system integrated into the bumper then that is just a bad design! I can't imagine what would happen out in the wild after hitting something with your bumper and then disabling the vehicle.
I will admit that the front brush bars do look cool but I do think at this point it is as you pointed out only for appearances and not functional as it is proposed!

 

[CrazyOldMan]

You make some very good points! I do think that the BULL bar is really only a light brush guard and to think that it serves as any real protection is silly after seeing the results of a low speed crash. As far as crumple zones built into the bumper that is understandable considering the regulations but after seeing what could happen with the cooling system integrated into the bumper then that is just a bad design! I can't imagine what would happen out in the wild after hitting something with your bumper and then disabling the vehicle.
I will admit that the front brush bars do look cool but I do think at this point it is as you pointed out only for appearances and not functional as it is proposed!

To be fair, I don’t think Ineos made any claims about specific functional protection provided by the bull/roo bar. Maybe it’s more that WE just assumed more than what it really provides. Maybe there’s a brochure or something somewhere - but they don’t sell it in the US, so it’s not marketed here and there are no US-specific claims.

 

[parb]

the bumper is plastic on the grenadier so that it gets crumpled up is understandable.
Note in the picture how the bull bar bent itself following the bottom radius while the upper bar which doesn't have that radius seems to have bent much less. Makes you wonder if that radius thinned the wall material and made it weaker?

Seems to me (and i am no expert) that the lower bar was what bent and the upper more straight bar didn't bend as much, and the vertical bar bent itself around its radius to impact. Makes me wonder if the curved radius bends made the bull bar weaker than what a more straight bar would have been? Note how straight the lower bar is until it get to the radiused bend starts.

Factory pic:

Same angle from the car that had the impact:

 

[parb]

Everything i write here is somewhat speculative, this is not my core domain or skill. Take it as complete opinion...

I know that you can calculate the weakness of steel from radiused bends and compensate for it. But that is far from my skill.... I have the gp factor and it also has similar radiused bends to follow the shape of the bumper. I assume it has similar weaknesses in case i get into an accident?

And i believe that even without the bull bar that plastic bumper would have caved in and the damage wold have been worse. I'm not trying to make it sound like the bull bar made things any worse, i think it would have been even more damage without the bull bar.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I just realized something horrible (in addition the fact that the Tesla came out better than the Grenadier) - it’s a 49’er fan with a Batman cover on the hitch receiver. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

 

[Zimm]

Everything i write here is somewhat speculative, this is not my core domain or skill. Take it as complete opinion...

I know that you can calculate the weakness of steel from radiused bends and compensate for it. But that is far from my skill.... I have the gp factor and it also has similar radiused bends to follow the shape of the bumper. I assume it has similar weaknesses in case i get into an accident?

And i believe that even without the bull bar that plastic bumper would have caved in and the damage wold have been worse. I'm not trying to make it sound like the bull bar made things any worse, i think it would have been even more damage without the bull bar.

he said it was 5mph impact. You see the outline of the bar and it snapping back. The bar could be solid 2” pipe, but if it’s welded to 3/16 sheet 24” away (lever arm) a 6000 truck is going to deform it like it’s cardboard to you.

it all depends on the relative heights of solid parts, but being that’s a car, I’d error on the side of just pushing in the bumper wing. Now the wing has much more strength at the top than bottom so I bet head on it twists upward into the quarter panel when impacted, and multiplies the damage v a collapsible plastic fascia.

Which, while not nearly as severe visually, in todays remove and replace repair methods, it is still going to cost the same to replace the same parts.

 

[Tom109]

Bull bars have always been limited in this type of functional test. Fully welded, one-piece construction like the old ARB’s is the solution, especially with the heat exchangers hidden in the number.

Now I’m curious. Next rainy weekend I need to take a look at the winch mounting instructions…

 

[Itsdchz]

he said it was 5mph impact. You see the outline of the bar and it snapping back. The bar could be solid 2” pipe, but if it’s welded to 3/16 sheet 24” away (lever arm) a 6000 truck is going to deform it like it’s cardboard to you.

it all depends on the relative heights of solid parts, but being that’s a car, I’d error on the side of just pushing in the bumper wing. Now the wing has much more strength at the top than bottom so I bet head on it twists upward into the quarter panel when impacted, and multiplies the damage v a collapsible plastic fascia.

Which, while not nearly as severe visually, in todays remove and replace repair methods, it is still going to cost the same to replace the same parts.

The impact was between 5-10mph, 100%
I have an 80 series FJ cruiser, and have decided I will go with similar ARB full bumper with integrated hoops.
Road armor seems to be very similar:

Ineos Front Winch Bumper Lonestar Guard - Texture Black 2024-2026

Ineos Front Winch Bumper Lonestar Guard - Texture Black 2024-2026

roadarmor.com

 

[Loc Nar]

Bull bars have always been limited in this type of functional test. Fully welded, one-piece construction like the old ARB’s is the solution, especially with the heat exchangers hidden in the number.

Now I’m curious. Next rainy weekend I need to take a look at the winch mounting instructions…

Yep, Road Armor's offering appears to be the only game in town when it comes to ARB-style approaches for the Grenadier. While it has some pros and cons, I'm fairly certain it would have handled this low speed impact a hell of a lot better than the Owl bull bar, particularly since the outer edge of the bar is welded at a 90 degree angle straight down to the bumper.

 

[parb]

he said it was 5mph impact. You see the outline of the bar and it snapping back. The bar could be solid 2” pipe, but if it’s welded to 3/16 sheet 24” away (lever arm) a 6000 truck is going to deform it like it’s cardboard to you.

it all depends on the relative heights of solid parts, but being that’s a car, I’d error on the side of just pushing in the bumper wing. Now the wing has much more strength at the top than bottom so I bet head on it twists upward into the quarter panel when impacted, and multiplies the damage v a collapsible plastic fascia.

Which, while not nearly as severe visually, in todays remove and replace repair methods, it is still going to cost the same to replace the same parts.

i wonder if the percpetion that the upper area was stronger is correlated to the location of the first radius bend in the tubing.
Note how the bottom straight portion did not seem deformed or bent at all, the bent part seems to be after the radiused portion of the bottom bar.
The upper bar appears to have bent also only from the radiused area and outwards and not along the long straight area.

To me, this suggests that the weakness wasn't uniform along the bar but was mainly found in the radiused areas. It makes me wonder if that is an expected behavior or if the radiused area made the steel much weaker than anticipated.

 

[Tom109]

Bumper movement and bullbar flex. See the red markup along the smae bumper line.

 

[Itsdchz]

After pulling it out with winch from bumper 1st then bull bar:

 

[Logsplitter]

The bumper moving is what happened to my Hilux in 2010. Whilst in a container to Mozambique the webbing straps broke and the vehicle rattled around in the container. During loading/unloading the bumper moved causing bull bar to push into grill and creasing the bonnet, and that bumper didn’t have
crumple zones for pedestrian safety as modern vehicles do.

 

[Clark Kent]

Yep, Road Armor's offering appears to be the only game in town when it comes to ARB-style approaches for the Grenadier. While it has some pros and cons, I'm fairly certain it would have handled this low speed impact a hell of a lot better than the Owl bull bar, particularly since the outer edge of the bar is welded at a 90 degree angle straight down to the bumper.

Off-road Animal make a fully welded steel hoop bar with a winch frame. Also available as a bar only with a winch hoop.
Australian manufacturing business with a US presence at offroadanimal.com.
US dealers: https://offroadanimal.com/dealers/

The Grenadier bars aren't listed on the US site. Either an error or they aren't currently importing them. You would need to ask.

Links to the Australian site for reference.

Toro Bull Bar to suit INEOS Grenadier & Quartermaster 2022 to current

Toro Bull Bar to suit Ineos Grenadier 2022 to current

offroadanimal.com.au

Predator Bull Bar to suit INEOS Grenadier & Quartermaster, 2022 to current

Predator Bull Bar to suit Ineos Grenadier and Quartermaster, 2022 to current

offroadanimal.com.au

 

[Logsplitter]

I wish were allowed to have them in the UK

 

[Clark Kent]

I wish were allowed to have them in the UK

We also have logs that need splitting. Just sayin'

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