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None commercial version of the station wagon?

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Looking at the Belstaff versions (Trialmaster and Fieldmaster) they are only an 80% fit for my requirements, both versions having equipment surplus to my need. This seems to be a common occurrence with other buyers.

If I start a build from the station wagon (in the UK) I am informed that it will be classified as commercial and as such have a different tax classification, lower speed limits, less legroom in the rear, and subsequent insurance differences.

Would it not be sensible for Ineos to have a none commercial station wagon as a starting point for the build. This would have the same floor plan / seating arrangement as the Belstaff versions overcoming these issues.

This has been a stopper for me placing my order. I hope, I really hope, I am missing something here. Other people's thoughts welcome!
 

Jeremy996

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As my old LR110CSW was insured for business use and my insurer, NFU expect the Grenadier to be similar, (albeit with a larger capital cost), I was not too worried about the commercial status.
I spec'ed up a commercial station wagon and I'm looking forwards to the lower VED. The speed limits don't bother me and the seats will be ignored for now. (Changing them should be a drill and spanner matter and will be done at my leisure).
 

Spjnr

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Commercial status would be beneficial to majority of buyers i should think. For instance mine will go on my business fleet insurance which is a flat rate per N1 vehicle, saving a fair bit of money.
 

Manuel4x4

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I'm not sure about buying the commercial version, besides problems with speed, more expensive insurance etc. the worst inconvenience in Spain is the need for technical inspections by the state annually after two years of registration and every 6 months after 10 years
 

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Why would you then want a commercial version?
 

Manuel4x4

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Well, because it allows me to configure a vehicle with what is really useful to me and I save 12,000 euros compared to versions already configured.
 

bemax

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But can’t you configure it as you want to and register it as a private car?
 

Manuel4x4

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No only can configure the comercial car the prívate car are only tríal Master and Fieldmaster
 

bemax

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But isn’t the configuration just a configuration? I do not understand why this effects the registration at the local administration.
 

DCPU

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So much for harmonised standards across Europe; never mind trying to create a single vehicle, or set of vehicles for a world market.

It's not just about physical construction but all the associated insurance, use, taxation, and administrative rules that follow.
 
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Looking at the Belstaff versions (Trialmaster and Fieldmaster) they are only an 80% fit for my requirements, both versions having equipment surplus to my need. This seems to be a common occurrence with other buyers.

If I start a build from the station wagon (in the UK) I am informed that it will be classified as commercial and as such have a different tax classification, lower speed limits, less legroom in the rear, and subsequent insurance differences.

Would it not be sensible for Ineos to have a none commercial station wagon as a starting point for the build. This would have the same floor plan / seating arrangement as the Belstaff versions overcoming these issues.

This has been a stopper for me placing my order. I hope, I really hope, I am missing something here. Other people's thoughts welcome!
Hello Jules - this is my problem also. I saw the Station Wagon Commercial at Kelso and the rear seat is unusable for adults being further forward. There is a pile of electrionics under the seat plus main battery and leisure battery ( in my case ). Have been warned by INEOS reps that the visible fixings for the seat being further bakc may be welded up to comply with HMRC/DVLA tax rules. Now looking to cancel my Station Wagon order and get a Trialmaster but that has £3k worth of stuff I dont want and I will lose my build slot. Crazy way to treat customers.
 

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Hello Jules - this is my problem also. I saw the Station Wagon Commercial at Kelso and the rear seat is unusable for adults being further forward. There is a pile of electrionics under the seat plus main battery and leisure battery ( in my case ). Have been warned by INEOS reps that the visible fixings for the seat being further bakc may be welded up to comply with HMRC/DVLA tax rules. Now looking to cancel my Station Wagon order and get a Trialmaster but that has £3k worth of stuff I dont want and I will lose my build slot. Crazy way to treat customers.
You comments on welding up the seat holes are interesting. I’d specd up the commercial version as I don’t want leather seating and planned to relocate the seats to station wagon spec. Contacted Ineos some time ago about the possibility of deleting the leather in favour of the fabric, but it was a no.. as it stands, I plan to change to a belstaff once my Contract arrives..
 
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Hello EP - I did not go for the SW Commercial as a VAT free/Biz user, I am not in business. I didn't want alloys, leather seats, raised air intake,access ladder, high power switch panel, compass/altimeter and puddle lamps... Both Belstaff editions are pre-specced with all this stuff which you cant de-select and its £3k of stuff I dont want - INEOS have selected it. I am however wanting the tow pack, heated seats, aux battery, safari windows and had specced all this on the Station Wagon - but the rear seats are totally useless. Do I risk staying with the SW and hope that all the electrics and seats can be moved into pre-drilled holes ?? - or end up having to sell it and re-order a more expensive Belstaff loaded with stuff I dont want but have proper rear seats, - and wait months for it ? The other issue is that if you have paid the £2.5k refundable deposit, your order is 'locked in' and cancelling it will have you kicked off the queue and you are back at the end of a very long queue. I have this in print from INEOS. It is totally infuriating that INEOS are so inflexible and cant see that their policy is causing so many problems and ailenating their potential customers at this stage. Why cant they offer a Grenadier 'Custom Build' ? Start off with the standard shell and normal seating position and use the MY23 Price List showing all the priced options to enable customers to spec their Grenadier - I'd happily pay a 'Custom Build' fee of say £500 just to get what I want and not what someone else has decided. INEOS have the rule book in their control ; how about using it to help customers ?
 

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Frustrating for you but surely you'll be able to sort the back seats out somehow one way or another. Bit of welding/drilling as last resort but I'm optimistic you'll/local engineer will be able to come up with a work around.
 

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I had the same problem.

At the end of the day I ordered a 5-seat utility. Later, it turned out that the backwards located mounting holes might be closed due to the mentioned regulations. I do however not care: If this is so, I have two or three options:
  1. I grind off the weldings spots and restore them with rust protection. I can than mount the rear seats as planned.
  2. I mount an "adapter" rail on the original mounting holes which has own mounting holes/nuts to achieve the same. Seat will end up 5mm or so higher.
  3. I mount airline rails on the original mounting holes and 'invent', buy or assemble some rail-compatible counterparts for the seats.
A 4th option is just: risk it and see what will be possible.

I would even engage a professional welder to modify the seat console with the "right" mounting points for the original mounting.

If none of them works out, it's in fact not a big thing: My legs are short and thus the driver seat will never be too close to the rear seats. And if there is a passenger on the rear seat at all (98% not), the front passenger can move a bit forward for that ride.
 

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but the rear seats are totally useless.
Clearly you've made your decision on these, but just who do you have planned to sit in there and for how long.

I currently have a double cab old Defender, I think the rear seating in that is very probably "worse" than the Grenadier but yet have managed 2 adults for extended day trips without anyone complaining.

It is totally infuriating that INEOS are so inflexible and cant see that their policy is causing so many problems and ailenating their potential customers at this stage. Why cant they offer a Grenadier 'Custom Build' ? Start off with the standard shell and normal seating position and use the MY23 Price List showing all the priced options to enable customers to spec their Grenadier

It does appear to only be a marketing issue for the UK. Looking at some other markets, they appear to be getting the option you want.

I wonder if you waited until the Belstaff editions are out, then Ineos may introduce the option you want?
 
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Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. It does seem bonkers to spend +£60K on a new vehicle and then have to get welders and electrical technicians to shift the batteries, fuse units, CTEK inverter/charging unit etc - and probably invalidate any warranty in place. If the timing works out, I'll wait to see a production Station Wagon at my dealer, check out if the 'C'pillar slots are in place for the seat back rake, and the fixings in the boot floor etc. are accessible. If not, then I'm cancelling and re-ordering a Trialmaster- only item that I can possibly remove that I dont want is the raised air intake. It's all so flippin difficult...arrgghh :eek:(
 

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> and then have to get welders and electrical technicians to shift the batteries, fuse units, CTEK inverter/charging unit etc

You don't have to.

> I'll wait to see a production Station Wagon at my dealer, check out if the
> 'C'pillar slots are in place for the seat back rake, and the fixings in the boot floor etc. are accessible.

That's a consequent solution.

Btw: Batteries and electric stuff is afaik not affected. I think they can rest where they are.
 

DCPU

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I'm going to say all the batteries, fuse units are identically fixed for both rear seat types. It's just the seat frame that moves over the top that different.

Contrast the main rear seat centre spar with the battery terminals ~ one in front and the other behind:

FB_IMG_1640862364853.jpg
Screenshot_20210723_221424_com.google.android.youtube.jpg
 

DaveB

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Hello EP - I did not go for the SW Commercial as a VAT free/Biz user, I am not in business. I didn't want alloys, leather seats, raised air intake,access ladder, high power switch panel, compass/altimeter and puddle lamps... Both Belstaff editions are pre-specced with all this stuff which you cant de-select and its £3k of stuff I dont want - INEOS have selected it. I am however wanting the tow pack, heated seats, aux battery, safari windows and had specced all this on the Station Wagon - but the rear seats are totally useless. Do I risk staying with the SW and hope that all the electrics and seats can be moved into pre-drilled holes ?? - or end up having to sell it and re-order a more expensive Belstaff loaded with stuff I dont want but have proper rear seats, - and wait months for it ? The other issue is that if you have paid the £2.5k refundable deposit, your order is 'locked in' and cancelling it will have you kicked off the queue and you are back at the end of a very long queue. I have this in print from INEOS. It is totally infuriating that INEOS are so inflexible and cant see that their policy is causing so many problems and ailenating their potential customers at this stage. Why cant they offer a Grenadier 'Custom Build' ? Start off with the standard shell and normal seating position and use the MY23 Price List showing all the priced options to enable customers to spec their Grenadier - I'd happily pay a 'Custom Build' fee of say £500 just to get what I want and not what someone else has decided. INEOS have the rule book in their control ; how about using it to help customers ?
I am a bit confused. Why don't you order the 5 seat Station wagon without choosing either of the Belstaff editions?
1665938454978.png
 
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